# Have you canceled your Amazon Prime or Washington Post subscription? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 27, 2024, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307 "2024-10-27T19:59:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/163 "2024-11-01T00:57:56Z")
This is true, but I also meant that Trump might appreciate Musk’s monetary support and efforts in Pennsylvania. Trump might consider Bezos the way he seems to have done previously. When it comes to making big donations this might mean much more than not making an endorsement. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/164 "2024-11-01T01:23:31Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I notice here that you’re conflating _bias_ with _partisan_ which isn’t always the same. I’m not conflating anything; the entire discussion is about partisan bias, so I assume that’s the kind of bias you’re talking about as well. There are obviously other types of bias, with varying degrees of partisanness. Which itself is a dynamic concept. Free speech advocates? Big business? Pro-union? DC establishment? Etc. The boundaries here are not precisely Democratic vs. Republican. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > It’s hard to dispute the circular logic that stories are only believable if they are believed. You misparsed the sentence. It was admittedly ambiguous, but if you were being generous you might have hit upon the correct parsing since it matches everything else I’ve said, plus it isn’t circular. Specifically, I meant: _sources must not just be credible but people must have a belief in that credibility_ and not: _sources must not just be credible, but people must believe in that source in order to be considered credible_ Again, to take the example of the voting machine, it’s not enough that it counts the votes correctly. People must believe that it’s counting the votes correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/165 "2024-11-01T01:25:02Z")
Thanks for the link. Seems pretty late in the game. Any idea if this is typical? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/166 "2024-11-01T01:47:57Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Editor-At-Large Robert Kagen on why he resigned from the _Washington Post_: Wow, that was really powerful! I recommend to others to watch the whole thing (it’s not very long), but Kagan’s final point as to why he had to resign was > But if Donald Trump wins, I feel this is just the beginning. And that’s why I feel for those who are still staying at the Post, I understand their decision, and I respect it especially the way they’re behaving right now **but if the goal of this was to avoid offending Donald Trump _before_ the election, imagine when Donald Trump _is_ President. Do we really think that Bezos is going to run a newspaper that is attacking and vilifying the President of the United States every single day?** I think It bodes ill in the near future even for those who want to be independent voices at the Washington Post should Donald Trump win. And that’s what this decision means and that’s why I resigned, because you can see the writing on the wall. **It’s not really that difficult to see where a decision like this goes. It’s not the _last_ thing that Jeff Bezos is going to do if Donald Trump wins, it’s the _first_ thing.** ” ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/167 "2024-11-01T02:48:34Z")
The Washington Post just put out an editorial that, without mentioning Harris, calls for populists like Trump to be beaten by mainstream politicians: [Modern-day populism is a threat to democracy. But it can be beaten.](https://wapo.st/3NUnd4V) Bezos justified the endorsement ban by writing that “what presidential endorsements actually do is create a perception of bias.” If so, this editorial also does. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/168 "2024-11-01T12:11:35Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I’m not conflating anything; the entire discussion is about partisan bias, so I assume that’s the kind of bias you’re talking about as well. No, the entire discussion is not about partisan bias. It’s about ownership bias, as in billionaire Jeff Bezos interfering with a supposedly independent editorial board to bias its reporting such that it aligns with his own financial interests. You’re no kind of sharp-eyed bias hawk if you overlook the very obvious ownership bias to accept the owner’s framing that he’s actually the one who is “fighting partisan bias”. An editorial decision facing a particular candidate isn’t automatically partisan bias, otherwise it would be impossible to cover candidates at all! This is the position of bad actors who are harmed by honest comparisons. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Again, to take the example of the voting machine, it’s not enough that it counts the votes correctly. People must believe that it’s counting the votes correctly. Journalism isn’t like this. The reason everyone needs to believe in election integrity is so that they’ll participate uncritically, and higher participation helps reinforce integrity. Otherwise they may not participate and they may choose leaders via other less ideal means (violence, coercion, corruption, etc). Journalism isn’t like that at all. You’re supposed to participate with a skeptical eye! If you don’t like the content of a publication, you’re not required to consume it. You can choose a different voice, and in the digital age you can even publish your own. More voices are better, they add perspective, biases published and placed in contrast can get us closer to the truth. So no, I am not going to parse this generously at all, as you’ve not argued persuasively that what you said is in any way meaningfully distinct from the entertainment-product analysis that says consumers are the ultimate arbiters of what’s biased and accurate. They’re experts on which beliefs they want highlighted, and nothing more. What Bezos has done here is used his grossly unequal financial resources to elevate his own media-consumer bias above every other consumer, some of whom are his own customers. This discussion is about Amazon customers using their limited powers to counter Bezos. You want it to be about accepting Bezos’s comically dishonest framing that he’s “fighting partisan bias”, which doesn’t pass even the most naive smell test. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/169 "2024-11-01T19:39:58Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > This discussion is about Amazon customers using their limited powers to counter Bezos. Except that Bezos doesn’t own Amazon. It’s a publicly traded company. He does own WaPo. ---
**Author:** ![Beesnest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@Beesnest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beesnest)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/170 "2024-11-01T19:41:43Z")
I cancelled NYT and WAPO earlier this year. Prime-dang it I don’t want to cancel. I suppose I can cancel and rejoin in 2025 if the asteroid does not hit ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/171 "2024-11-01T21:05:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Except that Bezos doesn’t own Amazon. It’s a publicly traded company. He does own WaPo. [_Jeff Bezos is Amazon’s founder and executive chair of the board. He also happens to be the company’s biggest shareholder, with 1.26 billion shares. This represents 12.3% of the company’s outstanding shares. He was CEO of Amazon from its founding until July 5, 2021, when he stepped down in favor of Andrew Jassy._](https://www.investopedia.com/articles/insights/052816/top-4-amazon-shareholders-amzn.asp) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/172 "2024-11-01T21:07:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Except that Bezos doesn’t own Amazon. It’s a publicly traded company. He does own WaPo. Not that this trifling little semantic hijack is worth a response, but nobody owns more of Amazon than Jeff Bezos. He owns something like 9% of it in addition to being executive chairman. At least 70% of his personal net worth is wrapped up in Amazon stock (depending on the daily stock price). So the very simple and obvious point is that if you want to punish Bezos, punishing Amazon is a likely way to go about it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/173 "2024-11-01T23:24:38Z")
Thus, he only owns 12% of the company and no longers takes an active hand in running the business. Thanks, you just proved my point. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Not that this trifling little semantic hijack is worth a response, but nobody owns more of Amazon than Jeff Bezos. No one person, but thousands of stockholders jointly own roughly 90%. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > So the very simple and obvious point is that if you want to punish Bezos, punishing Amazon is a likely way to go about it. No, you will punish the thousands of other stockholders, not Bezo. OTOH he is the sole owner of WaPo, so canceling your sub does send a message. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2024, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/174 "2024-11-02T01:34:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Thus, he only owns 12% of the company and no longers takes an active hand in running the business. Thanks, you just proved my point. No, it doesn’t. Jeff Bezos’ 12% of [AMZN stock](https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/AMZN/key-statistics/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAMAvUzu25vY0QngWYaGdIRek1hQiax2PgQvz6YhPYI89pPiuPwXbFjLAYLCrDNpfD1hHum-1BGR4oUjDOQL15nHTy8e_vIlO2EJ2q3rQtZkp2z5hS3Vrg9nfWdYFpVfNmvSPn4jOQ8RmyZYGeCqv2dDsDPW_F2eUr77gLPnQ2v0n) forms the vast majority of his ~$200B net worth, and while a few tens of thousands of Prime subscribers cancelling their subscriptions will barely put a dent in Amazon income and valuation (especially as the subscriptions renewals will be spread out over the next year), if customers stopped using Amazon _en masse_ (as unlikely as that is) the resulting stock downturn would cause him to lose a significant amount of that net worth. > [@DrDeth](#): > > OTOH he is the sole owner of WaPo, so canceling your sub does send a message. Jeff Bezos spent [~$250M in 2013 to purchase the _Washington Post_ as a vanity projet via Nash Holdings](https://wapo.st/4hy0Lw2), which would be about ~0.1% of his current net worth. The _Washington Post_ has been losing money for most if not all of those years; last year it reported [an operating net loss of $77M](https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/media/2024/05/22/washington-post-will-lewis-subscriptions/) and is claimed that it would have been ~$100M if not for the reorganization and bringing on Will Lewis as CEO and Publisher. The paper is a money loser and Bezos would doubtlessly like to write it off completely or otherwise dispose of it as it has [now become a liability](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/what-blue-origin-stands-to-gain-after-jeff-bezos-muzzled-the-washington-post/ar-AA1tdENy) for his own [much larger business empire](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/jeff-bezos-empire-chart/) of which it is comparatively [a banana stand that is currently on fire](https://youtu.be/iBLJFigZm9o?si=zyHDmn1QBF3_67Qf). Cancelling subscriptions actually hurts the journalists and other employees at the paper who are doubtless going to experience another headcount reduction and further cost-cutting. For Bezos, he can use clever accounting take the loss to offset capital gains on other asset sales, or just hold onto the paper and continue to manipulate it to show was a well-heeled oligarch he is to whomever he might need to curry favor. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2024, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/175 "2024-11-02T11:28:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, you will punish the thousands of other stockholders, not Bezo. You’re suggesting that acting against Amazon somehow punishes everyone who owns less than Bezos, yet somehow it doesn’t the largest shareholder, whose own personal wealth is \>75% Amazon stock? That’s not even a pointless hair-split, it’s just fundamentally illogical. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2024, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/176 "2024-11-02T13:18:01Z")
Yeah, I’m sure Bezos cares what Amazon is worth. And I’m sure some of my mutual funds own Amazon stick, but I’m pretty indifferent to what Amazon stock goes for. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/177 "2024-11-02T20:34:11Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Cancelling subscriptions actually hurts the journalists and other employees at the paper So, they dont hurt the employees of Amazon? > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > You’re suggesting that acting against Amazon somehow punishes everyone who owns less than Bezos, yet somehow it doesn’t the largest shareholder, whose own personal wealth is \>75% Amazon stock? That’s not even a pointless hair-split, it’s just fundamentally illogic Yes, because Bezos wont notice it, but others will. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/178 "2024-11-02T21:12:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > > > You’re suggesting that acting against Amazon somehow punishes everyone who owns less than Bezos, yet somehow it doesn’t the largest shareholder, whose own personal wealth is \>75% Amazon stock? That’s not even a pointless hair-split, it’s just fundamentally illogic > > Yes, because Bezos wont notice it, but others will. Bezos will certainly notice if a stock that makes up \>75% of his personal wealth significantly decreases in value. On the other hand, if the _Washington Post_ goes out of business and its value goes to zero, that’s something that Bezos would not notice (financially, anyway), because the proportion of his personal wealth that currently comprised of the WaPo is a mere blip for him. That’s the difference. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2024, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/179 "2024-11-02T21:22:51Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Bezos will certainly notice if a stock that makes up \>75% of his personal wealth significantly decreases in value. Which wont happen due to prime cancellations. > [@robby](#): > > On the other hand, if the _Washington Post_ goes out of business and its value goes to zero, that’s something that Bezos would not notice (financially, anyway), because the proportion of his personal wealth that currently comprised of the WaPo is a mere blip for him. Financially- yes, but it would hurt his ego. And all newspapers are close to going out of business anyway. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2024, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/180 "2024-11-02T21:31:45Z")
I don’t have a WaPo subscription, but if I had one, I’d cancel it and tell them why. Not that my opinion would matter, but I’m betting someone is keeping track. As for Amazon Prime, I can’t stop that. It’s the only source I’ve found for a certain OTC medication that’s the only one that keeps me from 24/7 insane itching due to a health condition (not an allergy). Also, I no longer own a car, and the alternative locations are tough to get to. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/181 "2024-11-02T21:38:50Z")
You can’t buy that medication from Amazon without a Prime membership? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307/182 "2024-11-02T21:38:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, they dont hurt the employees of Amazon? > [@DrDeth](#): > > Which wont happen due to prime cancellations. Do you ever get cramps from trying to argue both sides of an issue serially? > [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, because Bezos wont notice it, but others will. Most investors, especially institutional investors or those who have good financial planning guidance, do not have three quarters of their net worth invested in one company. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-canceled-your-amazon-prime-or-washington-post-subscription/1009307.md?page=10)