# Have you ever been friends with people who are bad parents? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 29, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014 "2019-09-29T22:38:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/41 "2019-09-30T23:39:33Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Unfortunately, it isn’t hard for me to imagine. > > About a month ago I vacationed with my older sister and a bunch of her friends. She has been friends with these people going back to high school, and they have all spent time with my parents. They had nothing but praise for them which they shared on the trip. “Your parents are just like the Huxtables!” they said. > > So they could hardly believe the stories that my sis and I shared about how mean our parents often were behind closed doors. I mean, sure there were plenty of happy times and happy memories. But none of them could imagine that our Claire Huxtable mother had once beaten my sis with a broom handle for the crime of being a “whore” (aka letting a boy be in the house without adult supervision). Or that our “fun” father would knock the shit out of us for looking “stupid” in response to getting yelled at over objectively stupid shit. > > My mother has counseled others her entire adult life. Most of the people who seek her advice would never know that it was only recently that she stopped reflexively dismissing expressions of hurt or sadness in her own children. People who aren’t privy to her intensely private side likely assume she is a fount of compassion and empathy and self-control. Only her children know she has a blind spot–one that allows her to inflict harm unintentionally. > > Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk That’s awful, and I will concede that people can be terrible in private and different in public. But I think that controlling parents are probably generally controlling parents all along. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/42 "2019-10-01T00:07:18Z")
Letting your 13 y.o. daughter smoke cigarettes freely around the house. This was a few years ago, maybe 2005-ish. Bad parent? If so, yes. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/43 "2019-10-01T00:24:59Z")
Now that I think about it, back in my mid-late twenties, when I was smoking a lot of weed, I had a few couples friends that made no effort to hide their pot use from their kids. As far as I knew they never let their kids smoke pot but I remember hitting the bong a few times when there were little kids running around. Is that bad parenting? ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/44 "2019-10-01T00:39:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Sorry, I don’t get it - what did this woman do that was so weird? The woman left her multiple children in her shopping carriage (unrestrained, which as a former cashier drives me bananas because carts are super unsafe) and went out of view. She didn’t just dash over to grab like… one wayward child who wandered off or something. She just rolled her carriage into the lobby, then turned around and wandered away. She didn’t quite fully abandon them but she didn’t keep an eye on them or leave them in a safe place and condition. They were fine ultimately, but not because she insured their well-being. I remembered I lost all respect for one friend because of a bad parent. Years ago another mother we know called her pre-schooler fat. (She was not large for age). I never would have anything to do with that mother again and her kid is now weird and awful. Shocking that someone who would call her 3-year old fat to an almost-stranger would not be kind to that child for the following 10 years and making that kid grow up to be awful. Anyway, my friend’s child became friends with the “fat” girl and when my friend would tell me stories about them, I’d be like “But… you know my story and you’re seeing for yourself their dynamic is unhealthy.” And she stays friends with them. And complains about them to me. So I had to cut ties there. If you don’t want to base your decisions based on something that happened to me, that’s fine, but if you are so insistent on proving me wrong that you let someone bully your child, you’re pretty wrong too. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/45 "2019-10-01T10:54:58Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > You can’t avoid it. The world is full of people who do things the wrong way, and your daughter might as well learn that. She already does, at school. Which means if I can lessen that exposure outside it, I will. > [@](#): > > Oh, and on those play dates: in your house, your rules apply. I’m not concerned with when I’m around. I’m more talking about the behaviour when it’s just the two of them in a room. And yes, I can sit there and control behaviour and use it as a teaching moment. But I shouldn’t have to do more of that than I already do. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/46 "2019-10-01T10:58:06Z")
> [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > The woman left her multiple children in her shopping carriage (unrestrained, which as a former cashier drives me bananas because carts are super unsafe) and went out of view. She didn’t just dash over to grab like… one wayward child who wandered off or something. She just rolled her carriage into the lobby, then turned around and wandered away. She didn’t quite fully abandon them but she didn’t keep an eye on them or leave them in a safe place and condition. They were fine ultimately, but not because she insured their well-being. Meh, wouldn’t bother me if it was just for a couple minutes. Is this like Americans who freak out when Europeans leave the baby carriage outside the shops for all of 30 seconds? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/47 "2019-10-01T11:19:20Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > If she admitted it, it’s no doubt true. And if those kids were better off with the father, then the mother did the right thing. > > It’s sad that she didn’t realize she wasn’t meant to be a mother before she had the children. Or perhaps she did know, but she was pressured into having children because that’s what women are supposed to do. this. pressuring people who don’t want or are ambivalent about kids into being parents is not fair to them nor the kids. having kids is something you should _think_ about, and not just do because society says it’s what you’re “supposed” to do. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/48 "2019-10-01T14:07:37Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > My mother has counseled others her entire adult life. Most of the people who seek her advice would never know that it was only recently that she stopped reflexively dismissing expressions of hurt or sadness in her own children. People who aren’t privy to her intensely private side likely assume she is a fount of compassion and empathy and self-control. Only her children know she has a blind spot–one that allows her to inflict harm unintentionally. Not to make too much light of your past misfortune, but is Leonard Hofstadter your brother? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/49 "2019-10-01T15:03:33Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > What inspired the thread was a story told in another forum about parents who had kicked out their 20-year-old for dating someone who was three years older. Link? (If you don’t want to post it here, message it to me.) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/50 "2019-10-01T18:10:25Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > Man, I guess I’ve been pretty lucky or I have a very small circle of friends. Worst thing I recall was a woman who would cut her kids’ meat at dinner - when they were in _MIDDLE SCHOOL!!!_ Those kids are now all married with kids of their own - I wonder if they cut their kids’ meat like Mom did.. Or better yet, bring their meat over to Mom’s house for her to cut, since they never learned to do it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/51 "2019-10-01T21:01:26Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > 1. I don’t think it makes sense to judge parenting based on how apparently normal their kids turn out. For one thing, lots of people are apparently healthy while being hot messes behind closed doors. And for another, people are resilient and thus are capable of doing OK despite shitty parenting. Still doesn’t take away the fact that they received shitty parenting. > > 2. What inspired the thread was a story told in another forum about parents who had kicked out their 20-year-old for dating someone who was three years older. Assuming there is no embellishment or omission to the story, that seems like really shitty parenting to me… > > 3. I don’t have kids, so I know I am not the best arbiter of “good parenting”. 1. So then you’re left with even less basis to judge it. 2. There would always be particular stories that attracted a high level of ‘I know it when I see it and that’s it’ responses but in general I think it’s highly fraught to try make such judgments again besides actual abuse, official findings, or obviously good/bad end results and even all three of those are subject to debate. 3. This statement looms large in my mind. 🙂 I guess the basic answer for me is I try not to make judgments like that about other people and their kids, though again I am not talking about turning a blind eye to things which might be criminal. Kicking out kids who are 20 is 2 yrs too late according to some people 🙂 . Though it’s usually older (even than me) people who feel that way it seems and also partly ethnic/cultural, not so common in my wife’s or my ethnicity traditionally. The story seems pretty extreme if the SO’s age was the only factor, but by 20 you’re not exactly ‘parenting’ your kids anymore IMO. Our kids did/have depended partly on us well past that age and it doesn’t bother me. I just view it more as a relationship I have with some young adults whom I really like, ‘parenting’ is over. If they had developed bad habits when young (when, according to them, I tended to be somewhat of a hardass) it wouldn’t help to be a hardass now. And I don’t think it hurts to be more indulgent now. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/52 "2019-10-01T22:27:29Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > Kicking out kids who are 20 is 2 yrs too late according to some people 🙂 . Though it’s usually older (even than me) people who feel that way it seems and also partly ethnic/cultural, not so common in my wife’s or my ethnicity traditionally. The story seems pretty extreme if the SO’s age was the only factor, but by 20 you’re not exactly ‘parenting’ your kids anymore IMO. Our kids did/have depended partly on us well past that age and it doesn’t bother me. I just view it more as a relationship I have with some young adults whom I really like, ‘parenting’ is over. If they had developed bad habits when young (when, according to them, I tended to be somewhat of a hardass) it wouldn’t help to be a hardass now. And I don’t think it hurts to be more indulgent now. Your average 20-year-old is still emotionally dependent on their parents, at the very least. Your average 20-year-old is not 100% self-sufficient, and those who are are almost always precariously perched. So I would disagree with you that there is no parenting going on with that age group. Kicking out a 20-something is sometimes warranted. Finances are tight, the kid isn’t being responsible, etc. But kicking them out as punishment for such a petty offense is pretty shitty, IMHO, and I am OK making this judgment call because I pride myself on not being a hand-wringing moral relativist. I’m not going to say I’d never spank my hypothetical kid or never allow them to smoke in the house or use profanity, because these kinds of parenting decisions don’t rise to the level of “shitty” for me. But I can say I would never kick my responsible, well-intentioned, financially struggling 20-year-old out of the house just because they are dating someone who is three years older than they are. And if I were to do this and the kid denied me access to their lives going forward, I would not be surprised. I don’t think there’s something magical about parenting that makes it immune to the kind of judgment all over behaviors and choices are subjected to. At the very least, it seems to me anyone who has experienced instances of shitty parenting has some insight into the topic and can thus be trusted with sniffing out shittiness when it is in their vicinity. But obviously YMMV. You seem to think non-judgement is the safest way to evaluate other people’s parenting. I actually think if there was more judginess (within reason) and people felt more comfortable expressing their judginess (within reason), there might be fewer kids experiencing shittiness in their lives. But obviously YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/53 "2019-10-01T22:34:42Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Link? (If you don’t want to post it here, message it to me.) [Here you go.](https://nr.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/daxa38/aita_for_100_refusing_to_let_my_dadmom_see_my/) ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/54 "2019-10-02T00:32:44Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Your average 20-year-old is still emotionally dependent on their parents, at the very least. Your average 20-year-old is not 100% self-sufficient, and those who are are almost always precariously perched. So I would disagree with you that there is no parenting going on with that age group. > > Kicking out a 20-something is sometimes warranted. Finances are tight, the kid isn’t being responsible, etc. But kicking them out as punishment for such a petty offense is pretty shitty, IMHO, and I am OK making this judgment call because I pride myself on not being a hand-wringing moral relativist. I’m not going to say I’d never spank my hypothetical kid or never allow them to smoke in the house or use profanity, because these kinds of parenting decisions don’t rise to the level of “shitty” for me. But I can say I would never kick my responsible, well-intentioned, financially struggling 20-year-old out of the house just because they are dating someone who is three years older than they are. And if I were to do this and the kid denied me access to their lives going forward, I would not be surprised. > > I don’t think there’s something magical about parenting that makes it immune to the kind of judgment all over behaviors and choices are subjected to. At the very least, it seems to me anyone who has experienced instances of shitty parenting has some insight into the topic and can thus be trusted with sniffing out shittiness when it is in their vicinity. But obviously YMMV. You seem to think non-judgement is the safest way to evaluate other people’s parenting. I actually think if there was more judginess (within reason) and people felt more comfortable expressing their judginess (within reason), there might be fewer kids experiencing shittiness in their lives. > > But obviously YMMV. “18-and-out-'em” really seems to be a uniquely American Boomer thing. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/55 "2019-10-02T00:44:51Z")
There was one family we sometimes did things with because she was friends with my wife. They had a son who when he was little, well our house wasnt kid proof but they still expected me to put away my things when they would come over. When we would go out to a restaurant they would let the kid run around and not watch him. Now it frustrates me as the son is now about 23 and has never held a job or gone to college or anything yet the parents dont seem to want to push him. None of this is bad per se but still. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/56 "2019-10-02T00:45:54Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > “18-and-out-'em” really seems to be a uniquely American Boomer thing. Not anymore. With the high cost of rent I’m seeing lots of young people living with parents till their mid 20’s. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/57 "2019-10-02T00:56:56Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Watching other people parent is like George Carlin on driving: everyone else is too extreme one way or the other. Half the moms at the park smother their children, don’t give them any independence or the freedom to explore. The other half? They ignore their kids and star at the phone too much! And activities! Half my son’s friends are enrolled in way, way too many things and sorely lack free time to just develop and explore: the others are just being neglected, no one trying to build up their talents or help them find their passions. And clothes! I swear to god. Half these moms bundle their kids up too much, to where they are nearly suffocating, and the other half leave them to freeze, totally irresponsible. It’s amazing how I always find the happy middle and no one else can. I used to be super judgy about how other people dressed kids for the weather until I had the daily experience of getting sort of step daughter dressed. From her refusing to put on what I suggested to me guessing wrong about the days weather (I’m in England, it’s hard, OK.) to her mum not having sent appropriate clothing with her. It was bloody hard and I don’t judge parents any more, well, nearly as much 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/58 "2019-10-02T01:14:25Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [Here you go.](https://nr.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/daxa38/aita_for_100_refusing_to_let_my_dadmom_see_my/) Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/59 "2019-10-02T01:30:24Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Not anymore. With the high cost of rent I’m seeing lots of young people living with parents till their mid 20’s. uh, yeah, I know. my point was that many other cultures have multi-generational families living together. The whole “get out of here once you’re 18” thing was only enabled by the fact that we came out of WWII almost unharmed, and you could get an unskilled job capable of supporting a family just by waltzing down to Ford’s and building cars. Boomers don’t understand that the environment they grew up in was an _anomaly._ It was unusual, it’s certainly not “The Way Things Ought To Be.” ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014/60 "2019-10-02T03:16:25Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > uh, yeah, I know. my point was that many other cultures have multi-generational families living together. The whole “get out of here once you’re 18” thing was only enabled by the fact that we came out of WWII almost unharmed, and you could get an unskilled job capable of supporting a family just by waltzing down to Ford’s and building cars. > > Boomers don’t understand that the environment they grew up in was an _anomaly._ It was unusual, it’s certainly not “The Way Things Ought To Be.” Even the idea that 18 is “grown” is pretty recent. Age of majority was 21, and society has rarely really expected teenagers to be fully formed adults. You might have to work on the farm or in the mine or whatever to help the family, you might be married and have children, but you were rarely actually running a household in your teens–and even if you were, it was likely very similar to the household you grew up in, and your parents are still telling you what to do and when to do it. When my students say “It makes no sense that you can drive and have a job at 16, join the army at 18, but you can’t drink until you are 21!” I agree with them and say “It’s true. I’d move all those to 21!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-friends-with-people-who-are-bad-parents/841014.md?page=4)