# Have you ever been in trouble with/disciplined by a religious group? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 1, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652 "2011-12-01T02:29:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/41 "2011-12-03T18:39:39Z")
> [@lurkedtolong](#): > > I went to a extremely tightwad christian school called Bob Jones University. Worst place to be in the world! YMMV. They always punished or disciplined people for the most stupid things. You would receive demerits which would affect what you were allowed to do, and they even would affect GPA and living conditions. For example, I was once caught wearing denim(blue jeans) this is a expulsion out of school immediately. While in front of a tribunal, someone else talked and said I went to the mall, which is punishable by expulsion. I was locked in a hallway to determine my fate. They generally grab all of your friends to talk about you, being promised immunity. Well that day, I was expelled with over a few thousand demerits, when 250 is enough to say goodbye to you for the rest of your life. Every single person who was associated with me and narced on me was expelled that day as well! I’ve read their rules before and it’s hard to believe that anyone would willingly go there! If you don’t mind my asking, why did YOU go there? Especially if they aren’t accredited? ---
**Author:** ![lurkedtolong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@lurkedtolong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurkedtolong)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/42 "2011-12-03T19:27:06Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > I’ve read their rules before and it’s hard to believe that anyone would willingly go there! If you don’t mind my asking, why did YOU go there? Especially if they aren’t accredited? I was forced to go by my parents, i was doing college prep classes for college credits at bob jones university under bob jones academy which was their high school to get college somewhat completed by the time i had to start. They never said anything about being accredited since it wouldn’t have applied to me for another year, however many people do know this and still go. These people would literally have to do college over again unless they were hired by like minded people. I have no idea why anyone would go to a school that only allowed G rated material, literally no music by todays standards were allowed, strict weird dress code, like females must cover knees and elbows; again no denim allowed since cotton is a “worldly secular fabric”. Hell, even when you went home on break you had to follow their rules! But I know that i may be bitching about stuff that isn’t to big of a deal after having read some of the posts here. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/43 "2011-12-03T19:37:32Z")
Not me personally, but I can think of two instances. In one case, a very unhappily married friend of mine was having an affair. One of the church “elders” (in parentheses because the guy was all of 25) got wind of it and demanded that she _and her husband_ face a church trial: she for the infidelity, he for tolerating it. In the second case, another friend was accused of trying to seduce the men in her congregation by breast-feeding. Please note that she was not breast-feeding during services or in the sanctuary; she would always excuse herself and go to an appropriate anteroom. But something about her irritated her fellow congregants, and she got called out during a church meeting. When it was clear that there was actually going to be a “church trial” on the issue, she got up, walked out, and never went back. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/44 "2011-12-04T10:17:25Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Anyway, you can learn all you ever wanted to know about Mormon church discipline [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciplinary_council). It’s a pretty good overview. My experiences, both direct and indirect with (and without) disciplinary actions of the Mormon church. 1. My father was released from the bishopric (he was a counselor) for molesting my sisters. This occurred when I was 12 or 13. 2. My father was disfellowshipped for again molesting my sisters. This occurred when I was 15 or 16. His temple privileges were suspended and he was unable to attend the temple on the day my brother first went into the temple for a mission. My father had not told anyone, including my mother, about being disfellowshipped until the morning of when they were scheduled to go to the temple. He was later reinstated. 3. In the quoted article they give reasons for Disciplinary Councils are mandatory, and include > [@](#): > > # Serious transgression while holding a prominent church position : “serious transgression” is defined as “a deliberate and major offense against morality” and includes “attempted murder, rape, sexual abuse, spouse abuse, intentional serious physical injury of others, adultery, fornication, homosexual relations, deliberate abandonment of family responsibilities, robbery, burglary, theft, embezzlement, sale of illicit drugs, fraud, perjury, and false swearing.” > > “Prominent church position” includes the positions of Area Seventy, temple president, mission president, stake president, patriarch, and bishop. > Transgressor who is a predator > Pattern of serious transgressions (as defined above) And when they may e appropriate > [@](#): > > The LDS Church has instructed leaders that a disciplinary council may be appropriate when evidence suggests that a member of the church may have committed any of the following offences against the standards of the church. Whether or not a disciplinary council will be held will depend on the facts of the situation and is generally left to the discretion of the bishop or stake president. > > 1. Serious transgression (as defined in the section above) > 2. etc. I’m sure that these rules are new because the level of abuse which my father did should have triggered a council. 1. It seems that there wasn’t a council held against my brother when he confessed to raping me, my younger brother and several others. Thank god, or I would likely have been subjected to the same council. He was on his mission, and should have been sent home, but wasn’t. 2. When my uncle was discovered having visited child porn sites, rather than report it to the police, my aunt reported it to the bishop who apparently also didn’t report it to the police. The uncle had a long history of various sexual issues, including visiting prostitutes while being married, something involving a 14 year-old girl and a hotel room, when he was a church social counselor, and this girl was his patient, but again, it was not taken to the police, and others. In all cases, things which clearly should have been referred to the police were treated as ecclesiastical matters. The basic problem is that the Mormon church treats this matters as sins against God and not properly as legal issues. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/45 "2011-12-08T21:26:48Z")
I was with the following reasons given: 1 showed up 1/2 hour before service to pray, 2 would raise my hand in worship during the song as various times From what they said they wanted me to sit in the back row, and not to come early to pray and stand before a hearing of the church elders to see if they would allow me back in. What I suspect was that the pastor didn’t like me bypassing him and praying directly to God, and really didn’t like that I was talking to others which sometimes lead to letting them know that they could do that too, and it seemed obvious that the pastor didn’t like anyone raising their hands in worship but himself. Never returned to that church, and have heard that shortly after I left the pastor was struck by crippling pain and has not been able to preach since. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/46 "2011-12-08T21:29:59Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > Do you count going to Christian school for elementary and some of jr. high and getting in trouble there? I was once paddled for saying I didn’t believe in God. Interesting. Did anyone explain how physical force was meant to be transformed into rhetorical force, or is it just like the wine-into-blood thing? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/47 "2011-12-09T13:53:54Z")
> [@moorland reiver](#): > > After a period of time I felt that, as a true believer, I needed to confess my sins to the Bishop, who then held a Bishop’s Council, and I was disfellowshiped for a year. [. . .] > > He was never disfellowshipped, he went on his mission as planned, and came home to marry Polly Pureheart. > > There are not enough roll eyes in the world… This actually occurs more frequently that you would think. My high school included one of the rich areas of Salt Lake, and many General Authorities (top leadership of the church) live there. When one of the boys would “get into trouble” before his mission, it would be quietly taken care of so as to not stain his record. If the girl was from the same high school, it would be OK, but god have pity on the girls from the wrong side of I-15 or 21st South. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/48 "2011-12-09T15:22:23Z")
Not me, but a co-worker was excommunicated from his local Catholic church (in New Hampshire) for marrying a Jewish woman. This was circa 1980. The rest of his family stayed with that diocese, which would have bothered me, but he said nothing to them. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/49 "2011-12-09T17:29:15Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I was with the following reasons given: 1 showed up 1/2 hour before service to pray, 2 would raise my hand in worship during the song as various times > > From what they said they wanted me to sit in the back row, and not to come early to pray and stand before a hearing of the church elders to see if they would allow me back in. > > What I suspect was that the pastor didn’t like me bypassing him and praying directly to God, and really didn’t like that I was talking to others which sometimes lead to letting them know that they could do that too, and it seemed obvious that the pastor didn’t like anyone raising their hands in worship but himself. > > Never returned to that church, and have heard that shortly after I left the pastor was struck by crippling pain and has not been able to preach since. Wow. What type of church was this? ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/50 "2011-12-11T04:24:13Z")
I’m a Unitarian Universalist. I didn’t know you _could_ get into trouble with my church. Hell, we can’t even agree if we’re a church, a fellowship, a congregation, or a bunch of people who hang out, drink coffee, and talk about _Firefly_. I’ve never been in trouble, but a few months after joining, I learned that the previous pastor had landed himself in serious hot water. So serious that he’d been defrocked by the national leadership, was in jail for crimes convicted, and faced civil suit over the shit he’d pulled. The senior congregation members were so pissed off, it took months for me to piece together the story. Apparently, he was an alcoholic. Not great, especially in a leadership role, but the church would have stood behind him so long as he sought treatment. Except he drove drunk (criminal conviction #1). So, he pled personal issues and asked for a paid sabbatical. Then he got arrested for soliciting an underage male prostitute (criminal conviction #2). Then - without telling the church about either arrests and pending prosecution or the following - he moved to another city and took a position leading a congregation there. While collecting his salary from our church. Then, he asked for and got a paid sabbatical from church #2, who had no idea about church #2 or either of the arrests. I think he was working on a third job when he was arrested for skipping town while out on bail. I have no idea how the church council found out, but there was Hell to pay - and we don’t even believe in Hell! ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/51 "2011-12-12T20:25:00Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > Not me, but a co-worker was excommunicated from his local Catholic church (in New Hampshire) for marrying a Jewish woman. This was circa 1980. Wow, is was the strangest story of them all. I wonder if that was common back then; I know lots of kids my age from interfaith marriages that happened in the early to mid 80s, but never heard of anything like that. My story is pretty benign. Back in the ye old days when facebook was just starting, there were all of ten schools on it and privacy controls were unheard of, I had a little drunken fun with my page. I had a horrible cold and took to stuffing tampons up my nose to control the snot. Someone said I looked like hitler and the joke spun off; a bunch of us made my page as though it were really hitler’s: favorite book Mein Kampf, favorite movie Scindler’s List (alternate ending) and so forth. I get several messages telling me how hilarious it is. I also get two from “concerned” leaders of campus Hillel, asking me to take it down, issue a public apology and attend sensitivity training at the campus center. Instead I apologized for their confusion and inability to take a joke, informed them I and one of the co-creators were Jews ourselves, although we probably wouldn’t be making it to Hillel for services anytime soon. They told me we were self hating and should seek help :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/52 "2011-12-12T23:09:53Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Wow, is was the strangest story of them all. I wonder if that was common back then; I know lots of kids my age from interfaith marriages that happened in the early to mid 80s, but never heard of anything like that. Depends on the diocese, I would guess. My Roman Catholic mother married my Southern Baptist father in 1966 with no repercussions; in fact, when I was a child, they were both CCD teachers, even though my father was not then and still is not a Catholic. Of course, this was in the afterglow of Vatican II, when reconnecting with the “separated brethren” (Protestants) was the thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/53 "2011-12-14T15:43:12Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > I’m a Unitarian Universalist. I didn’t know you _could_ get into trouble with my church. Hell, we can’t even agree if we’re a church, a fellowship, a congregation, or a bunch of people who hang out, drink coffee, and talk about _Firefly_. > > I’ve never been in trouble, but a few months after joining, I learned that the previous pastor had landed himself in serious hot water. So serious that he’d been defrocked by the national leadership, was in jail for crimes convicted, and faced civil suit over the shit he’d pulled. The senior congregation members were so pissed off, it took months for me to piece together the story. > > Apparently, he was an alcoholic. Not great, especially in a leadership role, but the church would have stood behind him so long as he sought treatment. Except he drove drunk (criminal conviction #1). So, he pled personal issues and asked for a paid sabbatical. Then he got arrested for soliciting an underage male prostitute (criminal conviction #2). Then - without telling the church about either arrests and pending prosecution or the following - he moved to another city and took a position leading a congregation there. While collecting his salary from our church. Then, he asked for and got a paid sabbatical from church #2, who had no idea about church #2 or either of the arrests. > > I think he was working on a third job when he was arrested for skipping town while out on bail. I have no idea how the church council found out, but there was Hell to pay - and we don’t even believe in Hell! Another Unitarian story: one of our members made the news in a bad way, i.e., having an online chat with a police officer posing as an adolescent girl. Our church leadership gave him several conditions he would have to comply with in order to remain in the congregation. He didn’t, and he hasn’t been back. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/54 "2011-12-14T16:55:51Z")
Didn’t happen to me but to my sister in law. When she was 16 she began dating my brother. Her parents are devote Jehovah’s Witnesses and since my brother wasn’t as well, they were not pleased at all. They went to the church for advice on how to handle the situation and were told that they needed to void her from their lives. To push her away until she realized the severity of her sins. So at 16, they kicked her out of the house. Locked the door and wouldn’t let her back in. She moved in with us and later married my brother. Her parents didn’t go to the wedding since the church wouldn’t allow them to. They never spoke to her, never reached out to her. Occasionally the church would send over someone to try to bring her back onto the ‘right path’. When she was about 19 she was in the hospital, having her first child and desperately wanted to see her mother. The ONLY reason that her mother came to visit her was because she had gone to the church council and begged for them to allow it. They did so begrudgingly and her mother began to see her again. Cut to ten years later and my sister in law’s in a slightly better situation with her family. Realizing that their idea of voiding her out hadn’t worked, the church has allowed her parents to continue a relationship with her, but with restrictions. She’s not allowed to show up at their house unannounced, she has to listen to their preach to her whenever she goes over about going back to the church and she’s not allowed to share a meal with them. So when she and her family do go over to visit, everyone else will be sitting at the table and eating and she has to go in another room. It’s just so ridiculous and horribly hateful that JW is the only religion I’ve actually come to hate. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/55 "2011-12-15T01:23:34Z")
An ex-flatmate of mine was excommunicated from the Mormon church after he decided that living a lie was not honorable and that he should come clean with his Bishop… about being gay. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/56 "2011-12-15T02:06:28Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Wow. > > What type of church was this? Reformed church of America, which is part of the Dutch Reformed churches. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/57 "2011-12-15T18:10:44Z")
I don’t think the RCC even has any public punishments other than excommunion available right now, but > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I have been, no kidding, denounced from the pulpit by a catholic bishop visiting our town. if that counts, there’s a church in my home town I refused to attend for years after the pastor spent a Sunday sermon calling my father a “slave merchant” and “servant of capitalism”. The priest has notorious Communist leanings, Dad was the HR manager for the town’s biggest factory and the new collective conditions were being negotiated at the time. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > This is nothing compared to the horror that **Dogzilla** went through, but at the same age (15) my mother was called out in front of her congregation for “fornication”—extrapolated from being seen together with a boy. At school, in public, fully clothed. Of course, the boy wasn’t a Jehovah’s Witness, so why associate with him if not for fornication? No physical punishment, but pretty harsh psychologically. Two of my HS friends were JW, brothers. They had to be back home earlier than anybody else and weren’t supposed to associate with non-JW - when we went out, they’d go to some other friend’s house and borrow normal clothing, then change back before heading home. We once asked “so you’re not supposed to talk to any of your classmates, or to your teachers?” “Pretty much” - after picking our jaws up from the floor, we offered our condolences. There were periods when they couldn’t join us because some other JW youth had been caught talking to a non-JW classmate or acquaintance and their parents had tightened the screws. They’re not JW any more. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/58 "2011-12-15T22:59:19Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Wow. > > What type of church was this? I strongly suspect we are not getting the full story on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/59 "2011-12-16T00:00:31Z")
> [@bartleby](#): > > I got flipped off by a priest once in high school… Whoa, I want to go to that guy’s parish. That’s awesome. Uh, I don’t really have anything big – I think I got in trouble with one of my teachers (a nun) for giggling in church once. Nothing really serious though. It was more of a “behave yourself” type of thing. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652/60 "2011-12-16T21:33:43Z")
> [@bartleby](#): > > I got flipped off by a priest once in high school… > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Whoa, I want to go to that guy’s parish. That’s awesome. The principal of my Catholic HS was missing the first two joints of his right index finger. He always had a lot of fun giving us altar boys the peace sign in the sacristy before Mass. 😃 **Dogzilla** , I just read of your ordeal for the first time today, and I found just the _reading_ of it to be harrowing. I want you to know that you have my deepest respect, not only for having survived that, but also for having the courage to share it with us so candidly. Peace (but not the way Father Leo did it ;)). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-been-in-trouble-with-disciplined-by-a-religious-group/604652.md?page=4)