# Have you ever had a manager you thought was dumb? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 15, 2020, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879 "2020-05-15T19:51:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/21 "2020-05-15T23:40:04Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I’ve heard plenty of stories about teachers who were put into administration to get them out of the classroom, but the school couldn’t outright fire them because they coached winning teams. (I have heard from more than one person that the man who was principal at Columbine at the time of the massacre was, by all accounts, the worst teacher his students ever had - even the goof-off kids didn’t want him - but yeah, he was a winning coach, so they promoted him just to get him out of the classroom.) Never saw anything like that during my time in education. Even accounting for how every state does things a little differently, I don’t see how you could shunt someone into administration in that way. It’s also not true that tenured teachers can’t be fired, although it’s certainly a process. I saw problem teachers get shifted around to other buildings, but I’ve never heard of a bad teacher being intentionally put into management, or a winning coach suddenly being made a principal just because. Though, I did see a fair number of PE / athletics people go into admin. The theory was that they were used to dealing with large numbers of people. I’d say those types were hit or miss as administrators. I should also say I worked with some outstanding school administrators. Smart, thoughtful people who I was grateful to have there. I suspect they went into it for the right reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/22 "2020-05-16T00:53:23Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I also think I get frustrated because this coworker wants to be boss one day. She has “AMBITIOUS!” practically tattooed to her forehead. The prospect of her supervising me one day makes my stomach hurt. I have had bosses who I believed were not my intellectual equal but we still got along great. I’ve never had a boss who was dumb, though. My current/previous bosses might have occasionally said stupid things, but they possessed enough cleverness to make up for it. They can pass as smart, even brilliant. I just can’t see that ability in my coworker. > > How challenging is it to work under someone you think is kinda dumb? If you’ve had this experience, how did things work out? What strategies did you develop? What advice would you give? I was in this situation once, and it was miserable in no small part because my manager was so convinced of his own genius that he wouldn’t allow me to fix the problems he created nor was he capable of understanding why his ‘solutions’ were not workable, and then when they failed he would blame others for his mistakes. I ended up leaving that job for another job at a startup that crashed and burned a year later, but I did and still do regard it as a good move. I’ve since worked for people of whom I was more knowledgeable about in my own domain than they were but I’ve never had the issue of working for someone who did not recognize that I was better able to address and interpret the issue (which is not to say that I haven’t been questioned about my assumptions or methodology, just from the standpoint of wanting to verify that I had gone through a thorough process of analysis), and for the most point I’ve worked for people who were willing to educate me with the benefit of knowledge in their areas as well. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/23 "2020-05-16T01:15:15Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > …Sadly who you know and how you dress seems to be a meaningful factor in how far you get in the corporate world… Don’t forget height. Top managers at the World’s Second Best-Selling Jet Airliner Company tend to be tall. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/24 "2020-05-16T01:19:00Z")
Yes. You know the guy who prints his emails? I worked with him. The stereotype exists for a reason. I know, the word ‘dumb’ has a lot of negative connotations. Maybe he’s great spinning wrenches on cars or the best fly fisherman you’ve ever met. But, managing an office that required a normal use of technology was way over his head. Simple excel to him would be like asking me to translate Attic Greek. And he was fairly young, maybe early 30s, had a kid around 5 or 6. Anyway, it was a short term temp project and I got to be the assistant manager. So, I got paid decent money to enter data into Excel and listen to music. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/25 "2020-05-16T01:23:03Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The distinction is lost on me. Dumb means your uninformed. Stupid means you’re incapable of being informed. Willfully stupid means that you know better but persist in your stupid behavior because you can. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/26 "2020-05-16T01:52:12Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’m sorry if you find this offensive, but I think there is such a thing as a stupid question. If the two of us are feline biologists, and you ask me what a feline is, I’m going to wonder if you’re pulling my leg or you’ve lost your mind. If you’ve been hired to be a spreadsheet monkey and you’ve been doing that job for 16 years and yet you don’t know how to calculate an average in Excel and don’t know what a “median” is, then I’m going to wonder if you’re pulling my leg or lost your mind when you expose that ignorance to me. This reaction isn’t something I can help, sorry. > > I’m totally down for a good in-depth philosophical discussion about the “why” behind a process. Why do we do it X way and not Y way, for instance. Great question. But it is hard to be enthusiastic about answering a question like “How do we do X?” when 1) I’ve explained it to you plenty of times in the past, 2) presumably you should already know how to do that, given that it is your job to know X like the back of your hand, and 3) the answer is in the instruction manual, and you should know this since knowing the content of the instruction manual is your job, not mine. I will give you a pass the first ten times you ask me this question. But if you keep it up, I’m going to feel a certain way about your intellect. I still appreciate the person who realizes E just doesn’t get it and has the sense to ask every time rather than one who never manages to get it and yet doesn’t ask for help. I prefer to explain it again and avoid error. The person who knows enough to realize E doesn’t know and will set aside pride to ask for help still has a useful kind of knowledge and is someone I can work with. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/27 "2020-05-16T01:55:00Z")
Oh, and what was the point of this … ? > [@monstro](#): > > I’m sorry if you find this offensive, ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/28 "2020-05-16T01:57:17Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Dumb means your uninformed. Stupid means you’re incapable of being informed. I don’t think these are broadly understood distinctions. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/29 "2020-05-16T02:01:12Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Oh, and what was the point of this … ? I didn’t want to hurt your feelings by telling you I think there’s such a thing as a stupid question. What do you think my point was? ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/30 "2020-05-16T02:01:26Z")
The dumbest manager I ever had was more wildly over his head then actively stupid. He never went to college but I’m pretty sure he graduated from high school. He went to work in the oil field as a pumper and some how became the manager of the drilling department with a hundred million dollar budget. I was brought in as a junior engineer in the department with one other engineer. I quickly discovered that the senior engineer didn’t have any idea how to do his job and was mostly faking it by getting service companies to do his job. After 6 months the senior engineer got promoted into management and 3 years out of college I was the senior engineer on staff. I decided to take the challenge head on and start bringing in all the outsourced work in house. One day I was redesigning a mud system and my boss came into my office. He didn’t understand why my desk was covered with books and I was skipping the social lunches with the service companies since that was where the work was done. I explained the redesign I was doing and show how the literature was backing my decision and well as the metrics I would use to evaluate success. He seemed stunned and walked out of my office. About an hour later he came back and asked me to grab my stuff and follow him. He led me into the VPs office and had me explain everything to the vp after which the VP turned to my boss and said he’s doing his job this is what engineers are supposed to do. With in a year I was running the department in fact if not on paper, writing all of the programs and budgets and permits and managing the engineering staff while my boss left me alone and managed the field personnel. Now, I tell people about being 28, running a staff of 10 with a 150 million dollar budget and their response generally is what kind of idiot would a kid do that. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/31 "2020-05-16T02:26:10Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I still appreciate the person who realizes E just doesn’t get it and has the sense to ask every time rather than one who never manages to get it and yet doesn’t ask for help. I prefer to explain it again and avoid error. The person who knows enough to realize E doesn’t know and will set aside pride to ask for help still has a useful kind of knowledge and is someone I can work with. I too appreciate someone who isn’t afraid to ask a question. I also appreciate someone who–knowing they’ve already asked a specific question a million times already–realizes they need to try a different tack besides coming to me for an answer. For instance, my coworker will frequently ask me a question that is addressed in the instruction manual. Sometimes I will give her the answer. Sometimes, like when my patience is limited, I’ll ask her if she has looked at the instruction manual. Inevitably she’ll say nope. She always comes to me first. I really don’t get this mentality. If the answer can always be found in the instruction manual, why wouldn’t someone go there first? I mean, it would be one thing if she wanted a discussion about an issue in addition to a straight answer. Lots of super smart people post questions to General Questions because they care more about the discussion around an answer than the answer itself. But it’s clear to me that when she comes to me with a question, she only wants an answer. I wouldn’t feel like my efforts were going to waste if she asked follow-up questions. But all I get is “gotcha” in return. It’s so unsatisfying. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/32 "2020-05-16T02:43:35Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Inevitably she’ll say nope. She always comes to me first. I really don’t get this mentality. If the answer can always be found in the instruction manual, why wouldn’t someone go there first? If you are there and she can ask you, why should she go to the manual first? Why is one method better than the other? Why is human interaction Only called for when one “want[s] a discussion about an issue in addition to a straight answer”? It’s not inherently better or morally superior to look it up in a manual rather than ask someone. It’s two ways of doing the same thing. What’s “wasteful” for either side? Are you being used up in some way when she does this? In terms of understanding a “mentality” in these terms, it’s as simple as different people have different instincts about how to do things. Maybe it just feels good to have an oral interaction with another human being. It’s probably not even a “mentality” in the sense that she’s thinking “I know I could look this up in the manual but I’m going to go and ask Monstro instead.” It’s just how her instincts work automatically. It might just be just as baffling to her why you would go through the rigamarole of asking if you looked it up instead of just telling her. Remember that reading and writing and the very idea of a non-human reference is pretty much born yesterday in evolutionary terms. It’s not something that’s ingrained in the human makeup, and it certainly isn’t morally superior. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/33 "2020-05-16T02:46:08Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I didn’t want to hurt your feelings by telling you I think there’s such a thing as a stupid question. What do you think my point was? Why would you think it would hurt my feelings? Did you think you were insulting me? And if you thought it was so likely that it might hurt my feelings that you had to apologize in advance, why wouldn’t you try to come up with a way of saying it that you thought would be less likely to hurt my feelings? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/34 "2020-05-16T03:32:06Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > If you are there and she can ask you, why should she go to the manual first? Why is one method better than the other? Why is human interaction Only called for when one “want[s] a discussion about an issue in addition to a straight answer”? It’s not inherently better or morally superior to look it up in a manual rather than ask someone. It’s two ways of doing the same thing. Are you seriously telling me if a coworker asked you the same question day after day, you wouldn’t be the least bit exasperated or annoyed? You wouldn’t at least be weirded out that they keep asking you the same thing, without seemingly retaining anything from the last conversation on the topic? If you are always confusd about how to do X" and the “how to do X” is written down for you in a handy how-to guide, then you are indeed wasting your coworkers time by asking “how do you do X?” a million times. The how-to guide exists for a reason. Furthermore, not reading the instruction manual is a recipe for trouble. You come to me with a question and I might just tell you the wrong thing since you are asking me stuff that’s really not in my area of expertise. The instruction manual exists to keep you from doing the wrong thing. Ignore it at your own peril. > [@](#): > > What’s “wasteful” for either side? Are you being used up in some way when she does this? I like social interactions that I benefit from, that don’t wear me out. Maybe this makes me an asshole, I don’t know. If you come to me with questions that are interesting and thought-provoking, I will enjoy exchanging information with you. If you come to me with questions that leave me frustrated and impatient, I will not enjoy exchanging information with you. I’m also not blessed with a well of infinite energy and time. Having to walk someone through a basic problem for the fiftieth time means I have less energy and time to do what I’m supposed to be doing. I don’t like being interrupted. > [@](#): > > In terms of understanding a “mentality” in these terms, it’s as simple as different people have different instincts about how to do things. I don’t know why you think the idea of “different people have different instincts” is a novel one to me. Of course I know this. I understand that some people have an “instinct” towards littering or an “instinct” towards cussing out grocery store clerks for wearing face masks. But despite this understanding, I’m still very much irritated by these people and don’t really get where they are coming from. Is the concept of “annoying people doing annoying things?” foreign to you? > [@](#): > > Maybe it just feels good to have an oral interaction with another human being. It feels good to scratch one’s private parts and fart too. But people are allowed to find such"feel-good" behaviors annoying and frustrating, right? Since when did “It feels good!” become a good excuse for dumb behavior? > [@](#): > > It might just be just as baffling to her why you would go through the rigamarole of asking if you looked it up instead of just telling her. If this is baffling to her, then she is indeed very dumb. In the time it takes her to walk to my cubicle and ask her question, she could find the answer in the freakin’ instruction manual. It isn’t “rigamorole” to go to the instruction manual. And even if it was rigamorole, it’s her fuckin’ job to know what’s in the instruction manual. > [@](#): > > Remember that reading and writing and the very idea of a non-human reference is pretty much born yesterday in evolutionary terms. It’s not something that’s ingrained in the human makeup, and it certainly isn’t morally superior. This is the derpiest thing I’ve read in awhile. Taking a crap in a pot is something “that is pretty much born yesterday” in evolutionary terms too. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to feel a certain way if someone takes a crap in my front yard. And while being literate isn’t morally superior, I would say that it an advantageous trait in the modern workplace. A person who isn’t literate and who doesn’t retain information is bound to frustrate people working in an environment where everyone is expected to be literate and retain information. And good social skills are just as important. Frustrating your coworkers is never good, even if you aren’t intending to be frustrating. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/35 "2020-05-16T03:33:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Why would you think it would hurt my feelings? Did you think you were insulting me? > > And if you thought it was so likely that it might hurt my feelings that you had to apologize in advance, why wouldn’t you try to come up with a way of saying it that you thought would be less likely to hurt my feelings? I’m really sorry that I said I was sorry. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/36 "2020-05-16T03:44:55Z")
I worked for a company whose owner and manager were both crooks and con-men. and it didn’t take them long to fire me when I dragged my feet on some of their snterprided. They didn’t know much about what I was good at, but I never met a successful con-man who was dumb. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/37 "2020-05-16T03:53:28Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > snterprided What is that? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/38 "2020-05-16T04:25:33Z")
Shhh… ask about snterprided and you’ll get fired, too. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/39 "2020-05-16T07:44:06Z")
Yup. Mentioned him here once, I believe. Swing shift super - he was approaching retirement age, call it 63 or so maybe? I know retirement age is now 70, but this was back in the 90s. He would make these ‘pronouncements’ as if he knew everything. I think the 2 that stuck out the most were: 1 - to pass through the [Bering Strait](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Strait) from south to north, experienced navigators would need to keep the constellation of the [Southern Cross](https://earthsky.org/favorite-star-patterns/the-southern-cross-signpost-of-southern-skies) over their left shoulder. 2 - that unless the breaker was turned off at the box, or there was something plugged into the outlet, electricity leaked out. Now on the quantum scale, this is sort of true … He was one of the most prejudiced, male chauvenistic assholes I ever had the displeasure of working with. ---
**Author:** ![LLCoolL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/llcooll/32/3596_2.png) [@LLCoolL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LLCoolL)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2020, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879/40 "2020-05-16T08:03:33Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > What is that (snterprided)? I thought maybe it was something spelled backwards, but reversing the letters doesn’t help. Searched in Google, which thinks its “enterprise”. So that’s what I’m going with, as it reasonably fits the sentence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-had-a-manager-you-thought-was-dumb/853879.md?page=3)