# Have you ever heard of these attraction/seduction programs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 8, 2020, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617 "2020-02-08T09:46:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/21 "2020-02-09T20:16:56Z")
There’s the parable of the man who stands on a street corner in a fairly busy area, approaching any women he sees as attractive and asking directly “Hello. Would you like to fuck with me?” An observer watches this for a while. He asks the man: “Don’t you get your face slapped a lot?” And he answers: “Yes. But I also get fucked a lot.” ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/22 "2020-02-09T21:31:13Z")
If I became aware that someone were trying this on me, my revenge would know no limits. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/23 "2020-02-09T21:42:59Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That actually is a method I’ve heard recommended. The men I’ve heard recommend it compare it to spam email _(not_ a comparison that makes it sound better to _me)_, in that if you spam requests for sex often enough to enough women _eventually_ you’ll run into one who says yes. > > With the unspoken corollary that you’ll irritate a _great many_ other women in the process. So yes, very like spam email… As someone who’s terrified of rejection, I’ve always wondered how some people seem totally unfazed by it. Is it because they have so much self-confidence, or is is because they have so little self-esteem? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/24 "2020-02-09T21:54:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > As someone who’s terrified of rejection, I’ve always wondered how some people seem totally unfazed by it. Is it because they have so much self-confidence, or is is because they have so little self-esteem? I suspect in this case it’s a matter of dehumanization; they don’t really think of women as people, and so are indifferent to how women feel about them. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/25 "2020-02-09T21:54:55Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Ehh, I’ve used these techniques successfully in the past particularly negging.it works you get the girl to go home and sleep with you. I always felt like an asshole doing it so I only tried a handful of times in my 20s. Plus you really have to choose a crazy one for it to work more than that single night and as a wise man once said don’t stick your dick in the crazy. > > The advice in this thread is great for having a real relationship with women but if you just want to be a scum bag that gets laid more often than most POA stuff is a path to go. Personally, I’d suggest the better path is to hit the gym. If you spent the same effort on working out as you do on learning POA stuff women will flock to you and you don’t have to be an asshole. At least that is what worked for me. It may not be an admirable long term life path, but I would rather these guys use these programs and go get their dicks wet, than buy a gun and kill 20 people, so…eh… ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/26 "2020-02-09T22:12:52Z")
Problem is, when the program doesn’t work as advertised, they may instead be more likely to start shooting than somebody who didn’t get into this crap in the first place. Other problem is, they’re harassing large numbers of people, and possibly actually raping some, if they are following the programs. How about they go find some techniques that build self-confidence by means other than knocking down other people’s, instead? It’s not as if there’s no such advice out there. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/27 "2020-02-09T22:25:24Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > More like, how do I turn myself into a person that\*\*\* I \*\*\*like. > > Also? Be aware that a moderate percentage of the people reading your post are women. Who generally have a very opinion of men who treat them like sex dispensers with a trick coin slot. Just pay for it straight up if you can’t understand that women are actually human beings. Pretty much this. Though as the [not so much a] joke goes you don’t pay whores for sex, you pay them to go away. I think many of the problems with these types of ‘programs’ is the men are dehumanzing the women by convincing themselves that the women are looking to trap a man to provide for them, and don’t believe in emotional investment between people. Everything is bottom line. Best advice is improve yourself into someone _you_ would be interested in - neat grooming standards, reasonable good health [nutritional awareness and some form of exercise] and learn to chat [present yourself as interested in what someone other than yourself has to say, learn the types of questions to ask to find out about someone elses pet interest so you can talk about something other than your personal pet interest - not every woman gives a damn about sports or hunting or fishing or whatever, learn to at least feign an interest in cooking or art or current affairs OTHER THAN POLITICS. Current affairs can be nonpolitical like the upcoming Oscars] If you find yourself in a conversation with more than one person don’t focus on a single female, converse with the cluster of people, it makes you not seem so desperate in getting laid. > [@TheMysteryWriter](#): > > Any woman willing to put up with a sleezy creepo all night while he puts her down and treats her like crap all the while bragging about himself, telling disgusting stories, and generally acting like a d-sack would have slept with said d-sack anyway. > > These guys would have just as much luck walking up to random women and saying, “wazzup, you wanna f\*ck?” Then they could go through even more women to get to the few who are desperate, horny, and drunk enough to say yes. IMO, anyway. I will admit, it is _way_ easier for a woman to get laid than a man. I once pointed out to a guy who was convinced I was hitting on him at a party when I wasn’t [I was being polite and feigning an interest in bass fishing, to be honest. Yawn. But people like it, viva la difference and sometimes I get offers of fresh fish =)] so I pointed out to him that if all I wanted was to get laid, I would not have gotten dressed up in very expensive clothing, paid for an expensive entree into a museum getting me an invite to the opening night after party and put up with really annoying mass market hors d’oeuvres [really, Costo frozen quiches, for what I paid for that ticket, dude…] I could have stayed in jeans and a tshirt and sneakers and headed to the bar nearest the main gate of Norfolk Operations Base, had my drinks and wings paid for and had my pick of young healthy physically fit guys - hm, blond, brunette, redhead … caucasion, hispanic, black, oriental … Always had a soft spot for green eyes … =) I always made my contacts for possible boyfriends through something that was a shared interest - generally gaming [AD&D] and SF/fantasy [cons] or something similar. A bar is a terrible place to go if you want something more permanent, and I have never been into one night stands - from the health and safety issue, it is more dangerous for women to hook up with strangers than men. Unless one has a fair amount of money, you have to go to your place, or their place and I have never wanted to invite a total stranger in to my place and risk being targeted for theft or violence. Going to their place leaves one open to violence as does going to a hotel. Hence, the distrust of one night stands. If I am friends with someone, I can see how they treat their other relationships before deciding to get closer. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/28 "2020-02-09T23:17:56Z")
> [@sta3535](#): > > Tao Of Badass - Josh Pellicer On a lighter note, there’s always the philosophy put forward by Donal Logue in _The Tao Of Steve_: Be cool, be excellent in her presence, and be gone. ---
**Author:** ![Anxious\_Squirrel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anxious_squirrel/32/1083_2.png) [@Anxious\_Squirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anxious_Squirrel)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/29 "2020-02-09T23:53:35Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Pretty much this. Though as the [not so much a] joke goes you don’t pay whores for sex, you pay them to go away. I think many of the problems with these types of ‘programs’ is the men are dehumanzing the women by convincing themselves that the women are looking to trap a man to provide for them, and don’t believe in emotional investment between people. Everything is bottom line. > > Best advice is improve yourself into someone _you_ would be interested in - neat grooming standards, reasonable good health [nutritional awareness and some form of exercise] and learn to chat [present yourself as interested in what someone other than yourself has to say, learn the types of questions to ask to find out about someone elses pet interest so you can talk about something other than your personal pet interest - not every woman gives a damn about sports or hunting or fishing or whatever, learn to at least feign an interest in cooking or art or current affairs OTHER THAN POLITICS. Current affairs can be nonpolitical like the upcoming Oscars] If you find yourself in a conversation with more than one person don’t focus on a single female, converse with the cluster of people, it makes you not seem so desperate in getting laid. > I will admit, it is _way_ easier for a woman to get laid than a man. I once pointed out to a guy who was convinced I was hitting on him at a party when I wasn’t [I was being polite and feigning an interest in bass fishing, to be honest. Yawn. But people like it, viva la difference and sometimes I get offers of fresh fish =)] so I pointed out to him that if all I wanted was to get laid, I would not have gotten dressed up in very expensive clothing, paid for an expensive entree into a museum getting me an invite to the opening night after party and put up with really annoying mass market hors d’oeuvres [really, Costo frozen quiches, for what I paid for that ticket, dude…] I could have stayed in jeans and a tshirt and sneakers and headed to the bar nearest the main gate of Norfolk Operations Base, had my drinks and wings paid for and had my pick of young healthy physically fit guys - hm, blond, brunette, redhead … caucasion, hispanic, black, oriental … Always had a soft spot for green eyes … =) > > I always made my contacts for possible boyfriends through something that was a shared interest - generally gaming [AD&D] and SF/fantasy [cons] or something similar. A bar is a terrible place to go if you want something more permanent, and I have never been into one night stands - from the health and safety issue, it is more dangerous for women to hook up with strangers than men. Unless one has a fair amount of money, you have to go to your place, or their place and I have never wanted to invite a total stranger in to my place and risk being targeted for theft or violence. Going to their place leaves one open to violence as does going to a hotel. Hence, the distrust of one night stands. If I am friends with someone, I can see how they treat their other relationships before deciding to get closer. That’s a good way to live. Much safer. I don’t really have a sex drive or much of an understanding of all that entails. But I’m at least more aware now than I used to be. In my early twenties I lived on my own for a couple of years and one day I was in a super happy/enthusiastic mood and this guy thought I was flirting with him and asked me out. I didn’t know anything about anything at that time, so I said yes, and then afterwards I invited him up to my apartment where I had an air mattress on the living room floor (because it was summer and right under the air conditioner was the only place I could stand to sleep). But OMG! what that guy must have been thinking! I was completely unaware of the implications or of the danger I was putting myself in. Luckily he was a gentleman and never tried anything. The most serious thing he ever did was pound on my door and sit outside on the steps for hours after I broke up with him. But yeah, inviting guys you don’t know up to your place alone is not a great idea. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/30 "2020-02-10T22:57:18Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I always made my contacts for possible boyfriends through something that was a shared interest - generally gaming [AD&D] and SF/fantasy [cons] or something similar. A bar is a terrible place to go if you want something more permanent, and I have never been into one night stands I think that you might not be the target demographic for the “PUA” community. From what little I know about that scene (mostly watching VH1’s The Pickup Artist with my wife), they seem to focus on picking up the sort of women who frequent nightclubs, singles bars, college bars, happy hour bars, fraternity parties, Spring Break, summer beach-party towns, party vacation spots like Ibiza or Mykonos. Basically, places where young, immature, vapid women go to hook up with young, immature, vapid meatheads (plenty of which I visited myself in my youth). Or in other words, the sort of places where one might actually find attractive women who would sleep with a guy they just met who used pickup techniques like “peacocking” or “negging”. Now, in all fairness, I didn’t see anything in The Pickup Artist that looked particularly “rapey”. Some of it actually did seem like good advice for helping nerds come out of their shell. But there is a line where it does feel like they are implementing the tools of con artists, politicians, marketers , cult leaders and and serial killers. Anyhow, one of the biggest indicators of lack of “value” IMHO is paying some dude to teach you how to meet women. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/31 "2020-02-10T23:34:29Z")
I pretend to myself I already have a girlfriend. That way instead of being nervous and ‘putting on a show’, I’m confident and myself. **Alessan** I have low self esteem. However, I also live by “faint heart never won fair maiden”. There have been plenty of rejections. But none really stand out or are memorable. On the other hand, there are wonderful joyous memories of times I dared and things worked out. **Defensive Indifference** Life IS an RPG! I didn’t get all these D7’s for nothing! ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/32 "2020-02-11T00:11:43Z")
> [@TheMysteryWriter](#): > > . . . These guys would have just as much luck walking up to random women and saying, “wazzup, you wanna f\*ck?” Then they could go through even more women to get to the few who are desperate, horny, and drunk enough to say yes. IMO, anyway. From a bunch of guys swapping boot camp stories - one mentioned a guy who would walk into a bar and loudly announce that he wanted to f\*ck TONIGHT!. Apparently he was usually successful. The storyteller didn’t know what he said when actually talking to women, and whether he was pushy or not. But a general announcement, not aimed at anyone in particular - I can’t decide if it’s better or just louder. ---
**Author:** ![Anxious\_Squirrel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anxious_squirrel/32/1083_2.png) [@Anxious\_Squirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anxious_Squirrel)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/33 "2020-02-11T00:17:36Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > From a bunch of guys swapping boot camp stories - one mentioned a guy who would walk into a bar and loudly announce that he wanted to f\*ck TONIGHT!. Apparently he was usually successful. > > The storyteller didn’t know what he said when actually talking to women, and whether he was pushy or not. But a general announcement, not aimed at anyone in particular - I can’t decide if it’s better or just louder. Haha! Glad to know my little theory seems to work out in real life sometimes. I suppose saying it once, loudly, saves even more time. If there happens to be someone in the room who is up for it, they’ll signal you, or whatever, and the f\*cking can start even sooner. And then if no one takes the bait, start working the room, and putting in a little more effort, maybe. _shrugs_ ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/34 "2020-02-11T02:45:44Z")
> [@TheMysteryWriter](#): > > Haha! Glad to know my little theory seems to work out in real life sometimes. > > I suppose saying it once, loudly, saves even more time. If there happens to be someone in the room who is up for it, they’ll signal you, or whatever, and the f\*cking can start even sooner. And then if no one takes the bait, start working the room, and putting in a little more effort, maybe. _shrugs_ Yeah…it works if you’re [NBA basketball star Dikembe Mutombo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKkx4xjkAjU). ---
**Author:** ![Anxious\_Squirrel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anxious_squirrel/32/1083_2.png) [@Anxious\_Squirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anxious_Squirrel)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/35 "2020-02-11T03:20:00Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yeah…it works if you’re [NBA basketball star Dikembe Mutombo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKkx4xjkAjU). Haha! Nice and Elegant. Who could resist such a proposal. Pay attention Pua’s. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/36 "2020-02-11T04:29:24Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > As someone who’s terrified of rejection, I’ve always wondered how some people seem totally unfazed by it. Is it because they have so much self-confidence, or is is because they have so little self-esteem? Have you ever done sales or played sports? If you have done sales you have to learn how to handle rejection without it getting you down. It helps just realizing that often what you are selling isn’t what the person wants or may be bad timing, whatever. People good at sales or picking up people just don’t take it personally. It’s not a personal rejection, they just aren’t into you. Not everyone will be. They talk about someone being so good they can sell ice to Eskimos, but in reality most sales people can’t. Likewise, no one I saw even pretended to be able to pick up any woman 100% of the time. It was interesting hanging around with different people and watching their styles. One of my friends was really hot. Very good looking. He never gad to try hard. Another guy was a little plain looking, not handsome at all, but he was really funny. He could get most women to laugh. Most of the guys were successful because they simply noticed when someone was interested in them and then they managed to have fun conversations without drooling. I’ve only heard about the PTU movement from treads on the Dope, and never in real life, but the “players” I knew never used negging. > [@TheMysteryWriter](#): > > Haha! Glad to know my little theory seems to work out in real life sometimes. > > I suppose saying it once, loudly, saves even more time. If there happens to be someone in the room who is up for it, they’ll signal you, or whatever, and the f\*cking can start even sooner. And then if no one takes the bait, start working the room, and putting in a little more effort, maybe. _shrugs_ It’s an urban legend and as such there will always be someone who claims to have done it for real, but I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/37 "2020-02-11T04:48:37Z")
> [@TheMysteryWriter](#): > > Any woman willing to put up with a sleezy creepo all night while he puts her down and treats her like crap all the while bragging about himself, telling disgusting stories, and generally acting like a d-sack would have slept with said d-sack anyway. > > These guys would have just as much luck walking up to random women and saying, “wazzup, you wanna f\*ck?” Then they could go through even more women to get to the few who are desperate, horny, and drunk enough to say yes. IMO, anyway. And women who would fall for this are not the type that any self-respecting man would want anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Anxious\_Squirrel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anxious_squirrel/32/1083_2.png) [@Anxious\_Squirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anxious_Squirrel)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/38 "2020-02-11T06:20:46Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > And women who would fall for this are not the type that any self-respecting man would want anyway. Isn’t Pua’s not respecting themselves, the point? They tend to be really insecure with low self-esteem, low empathy, and poor social skills. That’s why they need a system to tell them what to do. As an Aspie, I think that aspect of being told how to approach people would be really helpful. It’s just too bad they take it further into dehumanizing women rather than building these guys confidence up in a better way and teaching them that women are just people and not someone to be scared of. Then they wouldn’t have to knock women down or dehumanize them for a hookup. Guys who respect themselves have enough self-confidence and other-people-awareness that they can get girls on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/39 "2020-02-11T07:08:23Z")
Dude, no. Stay away from that crap. It’s misogynistic hokum at best, veering into sexual assault at worst. Men who successfully pick up a lot of women typically have conventional good looks, loads of money, excellent social skills, or a combination of those things. There is no surefire path to obtaining any of those things in the quantities you need to be That Guy, but you can usually improve slightly on your looks and you can do a lot to develop your social skills. Read Dan Savage’s column; he doesn’t always get it right but he’s given the best advice I’ve seen for clueless guys who want to get laid: [The Stranger: Seattle's Only Newspaper](https://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=20816) > [@](#): > > Join a gym and get yourself a body that girls will find irresistible; read so that you’ll have something to say to girls (the best way to make girls think you’re interesting is to actually be interesting); and get out of the house and do shit–political shit, sporty shit, arty shit–so that you’ll meet different kinds of girls in different kinds of settings and become comfortable talking with them. > > Some more orders: Get a decent haircut and use deodorant and floss your teeth and take regular showers and wear clean clothes. Go online and read all about birth control and STDs, and learn enough about female anatomy that you’ll be able to find a clitoris in the dark. > **[Savage Love Letter of the Day: Don't Worry, Dating's Hard for Everyone](https://www.thestranger.com/articles/2017/02/14/24870038/savage-love-letter-of-the-day-dont-worry-datings-hard-for-everyone)** > > I'm a 34-year-old woman living in Portland and I'm fucking lonely and horny and not sure what to do to fix it. I've tried plenty of online dating sites and apps, but they haven't produced any successful relationships (or even good sex). I'm starting... > [@](#): > > People have been crying over this love stuff for thousands of years—and keeping my ass in business for tens—so you’re not the only person on Earth who feels this way. Hell, you’re not the only person on your block who feels this way. The trick is not to get bitter. And the easiest way to avoid bitterness, LSBG, is by getting out there doing shit. Right now, today, without a man. Keep meeting up with guys from apps for quick coffee dates, of course, but get out there and do shit you enjoy without the goal of meeting the “right” guy every time you leave the house. Because if the stars all align, LSBG, you could find yourself in the right-guy-place at the right-guy-time. > […] > And be open to dating men who bring some of what you want to the table—and the mattress—even if they aren’t the whole extroverted-professional-with-a-big-dick package. If you meet a guy with an amazing penis and a “giving tongue” who isn’t a “professional,” LSBG, maybe you should give him a chance. I’m not saying you should settle, LSBG—no, wait. That’s exactly what I am saying. You could wind up meeting a professional guy with a below-average dick. You could wind up meeting an introvert with a giving tongue. There’s no settling down without some settling for. We all settle, we’re all settled for. No one gets everything they ever wanted in a partner, no one is everything their partner ever wanted. Holding out for the “perfect” partner means being alone forever. > **[The Stranger: Seattle's Only Newspaper](https://www.thestranger.com/)** > > The Stranger, Seattle's Only Newspaper: Covering Seattle news, politics, music, film, and arts; plus movie times, club calendars, restaurant listings, forums, blogs, and Savage Love. > [@](#): > > I get a lot of mail from disabled/ugly/fat/old people complaining about shallow able-bodied/pretty/thin/young people who refuse to date them. “Why can’t able-bodied/pretty/thin/young people appreciate me for how beautiful I am on the inside?” they write. “Dan, you should scold the able-bodied/pretty/thin/young for being so hurtful and shallow!” > […] > People who want others to “see the beauty within” should, as a matter of principle, take off their own blinders. > **[The Stranger: Seattle's Only Newspaper](https://www.thestranger.com/)** > > The Stranger, Seattle's Only Newspaper: Covering Seattle news, politics, music, film, and arts; plus movie times, club calendars, restaurant listings, forums, blogs, and Savage Love. > [@](#): > > But if women are approaching you and then “wandering off” after conversing with you for a moment or two—or being rescued by their friends—then you’re doing something wrong. I’m guessing you came across as angry and potentially violent because you are angry and potentially violent, and you’ve made a self-defeating decision to cultivate an intimidating vibe. That shit repels people, HOPE, and you’re never going to get anywhere with women—or employers, for that matter—if you give yourself over to anger, violence, and menace. Bearing this in mind might take the edge off your anger: Fully 15 percent of 21-year-old men are virgins, HOPE, while only 5 percent of 25-year-old men are virgins. So you have a better than 66 percent chance of losing your virginity in the next few years if you can stop (1) wallowing in self-pity and (2) giving yourself over to anger. Treat women as people, not conquests. If you don’t know what treating someone as a person even means, get some professional help. Learn conversational skills and how to read body language. Be interested and interesting. Develop friendships for their own sake, not as a wedge strategy to get into someone’s pants. If you start thinking about how you could manipulate someone into changing her mind about sleeping with you, stop. Move on. Find someone who’s into what you’ve got. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2020, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617/40 "2020-02-11T13:09:31Z")
There’s a great episode of _Bob’s Burgers_ featuring a character named the “Prince of Persuasia” that is a perfect parody of this stuff. His “steps”: ``` [ol] ``` [li]Trap your princess:[/li] Physically corner her in a room, and eventually, in your life. [li] Insult your princess:[/li] Insult her face, her body, her brain, her car. The lower her self-esteem, the higher your chances, bro. It’s been biologically proven, by me! [li] Brag.[/li] Not lying, but close. Make up a story about how you single-handedly murdered a wild animal. Your story is gonna release a hormone deep inside her body called “insatia.” It makes women ovulate… for sex! [/ol] along with the following hilarious “advice”: [ul] [li]Dress like her dad, it releases a hormone called “Moan-atonin.”[/li][li]When you get into an elevator with a woman, press a higher number than her, and then make a big deal about it.[/li][li]Push her in a lake.[/li][li]Be one of the tallest guys in the bar and brag about how long your butt crack is.[/li][li]Sing a song that you supposedly heard on the radio and then make fun of her for not knowing it.[/li][/ul] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-heard-of-these-attraction-seduction-programs/847617.md?page=3)