# Have you ever known a truly evil person? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 15, 2012, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765 "2012-10-15T11:28:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![ExcitedIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ea5d25/32.png) [@ExcitedIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExcitedIdiot)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/101 "2012-10-18T17:12:38Z")
> [@Seanette](#): > > Really? Tell that to family members of druggies, especially their children who get abused and neglected when the drugs come before anything else (voice of experience here), or the adult relatives who get stolen from or sponged from to get money for drugs. You’re blaming it on the wrong people. Most drug dealers are poor people struggling to survive or drug addicts themselves. ---
**Author:** ![ExcitedIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ea5d25/32.png) [@ExcitedIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExcitedIdiot)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/102 "2012-10-18T17:19:57Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Until someone ODs. Now, the dealers I’ve known personally were either too dumb to be evil, hooked up themselves, or both, but that doesn’t make selling drugs victimless. The person who takes the drugs is the one responsible. People who start doing meth know it is addictive and can ruin their lives. They know they can OD, they know they can get treatment. They choose to use anyway. It’s called personal responsibility. Nobody here would blame knife dealers for a murder, they blame the person who actually does the killing. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/103 "2012-10-18T19:25:35Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Now if you’d have said you had met Dick Cheney… I had a dinner meeting in 2007 that included Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and John Ashcroft. I \*still \*haven’t been able to shower enough. ---
**Author:** ![Corcaigh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Corcaigh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corcaigh)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/104 "2012-10-18T19:41:42Z")
> [@2gigch1](#): > > You may want to speak to an attorney about this just to get your bases covered. Evil people, ignorant of the law, can still be quite annoying. I’ve spoken to my doctor (who was the doc he spoke to) and the nurse at the Home (where mother goes to respite), the doctor dismissed my concerns on the subject because he [my brother] can’t legally do anything as he’s not listed as mother’s next-of-kin nor is he an Irish citizen, or resident or something. The nurse at the Home told me all she’d said was she thought mother was a good candidate for residential care. Brother is still convinced that he’s started the wheels in motion to get mother put into a Home permanently. He has repeatedly said that he’s doing it for my benefit (because I don’t get along with mother and my health is failing). WTF? This is the same man who threatened to push me out of a window, why is he all of a sudden so concerned with my well being? > [@drewtwo99](#): > > I think a good example of an evil person would be Jerry Sandusky, who in the face of all evidence of all the wrong he has done, steadfastly denies it and refuses to apologize, and probably sincerely believes in his heart that he did nothing wrong. That’s evil. And it’s not even his “fault” in a sense… he just has no idea how evil he truly is. When challenged over his threats towards me, my brother justified what he’d said because I’d deserved it. He gave a long list of reasons why I deserved to be spoken to harshly at every turn and that threatening to kill, maim or otherwise visit grievous bodily harm on me is acceptable because it’s me he’s threatening and well “fuck you bitch, how else do you expect people to speak to/treat you?” And yes, I am quoting him, almost verbatim. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/105 "2012-10-18T19:58:10Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Until someone ODs. Now, the dealers I’ve known personally were either too dumb to be evil, hooked up themselves, or both, but that doesn’t make selling drugs victimless. Or when the doped up person sneaks into the bedroom of a child and stabs them to death, or eats someone’s face off, or attacks their mother because they are experiencing a bad high. Yep, no victims there. ---
**Author:** ![ExcitedIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ea5d25/32.png) [@ExcitedIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExcitedIdiot)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/106 "2012-10-18T20:05:50Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > Or when the doped up person sneaks into the bedroom of a child and stabs them to death, or eats someone’s face off, or attacks their mother because they are experiencing a bad high. Yep, no victims there. How is any of that the fault of a drug dealer? ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/107 "2012-10-18T20:38:45Z")
> [@ExcitedIdiot](#): > > How is any of that the fault of a drug dealer? Directly its not, but it is certainly not victimless. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/108 "2012-10-18T20:52:09Z")
Yes, I know a lot of people who would qualify as very, very evil if the word is to have any meaning. I’ve prosecuted multiple serial rapists and serial child molesters. Some simply engage in deep cognitive distortions that what they’re doing isn’t so bad, some are deeply psychopathic and have no more conscience about raping or killing another human being than you or I would have about squashing a bug. One was formerly on the Texas Ten Most Wanted List, and two more are there right now. The very worst ones are both psychopathic and sexually sadistic; at least two of them were serial rapists strongly supsected to be connected with unsolved serial killings, and from what we know that they did do I wouldn’t put being a serial killer one inch past them. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/109 "2012-10-18T22:02:24Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > Are machetes standard equipment in orphanages (and supposedly other child-care facilities as well) now? They are in the jungle in Brazil. We used them mainly to chop bamboo. [QUOTE=TruCelt] I have also known amoral people who took no joy in harming others, but left a path of destruction in everyone they touched. (Many of whom defended them to the last breath.) -\> Evil [/QUOTE] I was thinking of a friend who is like this, but I found it difficult to put into words. He manipulates everyone, literally everything he says is part of some overall plan to make you do what he wants. Everyone ends up hurt and manipulated, but many hardly even see what happened. The difference between him and a serial killer is that he has no interest in blood. It’s not particularly about hurting others, it’s just about him and other people are accessories to what he wants. He is widely loved and admired, he feigns empathy extraordinarily well. I once mentioned to two close friends who have known him as long as I have that I thought he was a sociopath. They had both thought the same thing. Thanks elbows! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/110 "2012-10-18T22:16:37Z")
> [@ExcitedIdiot](#): > > You believe wrong. [This guy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudhir_Alladi_Venkatesh) studied a street gang in Chicago in the late 80’s. He found that the street level dealers made less per hour than McDonalds employees. Even the guys who survived long enough to be promoted made less than McManagers. I’ve read his book gang leader for a day, he studied the black kings in Chicago and you can’t extrapolate that to every street gang in America during every time period. In the book ‘monster’ by Kody scott (member of the 83rd street gang in LA in the late 70s and 80s) he talks about street dealers making that kind of money although the street dealers he knew seemed to cook their own crack from cocaine they bought wholesale in kilos. The dealers Sudhir talks about seemed to be those who get their rocks pre-made from higher level drug dealers. I think a $20 rock has/had 0.1g of cocaine in it, so you could get 70,000 rocks out of a kilo (assuming 70% purity cocaine bought by the kilo). Kody Scott’s best friend and fellow gang member is serving a life sentence for murder for a killing over some fake cocaine, he paid 14k a kilo for coke that turned out to be fake. But if you are paying 14k a kilo, and getting 70,000 rocks for $20 each that is 1.4 million gross. Even if you are selling rocks for $10, that is still 700k in gross income from a kilo that may run you 15-50k. Plus Sudhir started his studies in 1989, the crack boom was more of an early 80s issue. Point being you can’t take Sudhir’s experience with the black kings in Chicago and assume all street dealers operate under the same structure. The Black kings had a very corporate structure in their crack dealership. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/111 "2012-10-18T22:25:25Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Empathy, sympathy or giving people a pass on evil because of some alleged excuse such as mental illness or the abuse they suffered in the past is… > > …wait for it… > > participation in evil. > > It is enabling, excusing, defending and giving permission for these people to continue to engage in evil acts by attempting to shield them from the consequences of their actions and the disapproval of others. > > It is _Conspiracy to Commit Evil_. The real world is far more complicated than that. I tend to believe people who believe in equality of outcomes, irrelevant of circumstances, would probably be on the evil side had they been born in a bad environment. Derision of/contempt for empathy is arguably the core of evil. There is a difference between letting someone do something evil, and attempting to reform those who want reform, or prevent the evil acts that can be prevented, or using treatment over punishment when effective. ---
**Author:** ![ExcitedIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ea5d25/32.png) [@ExcitedIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExcitedIdiot)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/112 "2012-10-18T22:32:56Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I’ve read his book gang leader for a day, he studied the black kings in Chicago and you can’t extrapolate that to every street gang in America during every time period. In the book ‘monster’ by Kody scott (member of the 83rd street gang in LA in the late 70s and 80s) he talks about street dealers making that kind of money although the street dealers he knew seemed to cook their own crack from cocaine they bought wholesale in kilos. The dealers Sudhir talks about seemed to be those who get their rocks pre-made from higher level drug dealers. I think a $20 rock has/had 0.1g of cocaine in it, so you could get 70,000 rocks out of a kilo (assuming 70% purity cocaine bought by the kilo). > > Kody Scott’s best friend and fellow gang member is serving a life sentence for murder for a killing over some fake cocaine, he paid 14k a kilo for coke that turned out to be fake. But if you are paying 14k a kilo, and getting 70,000 rocks for $20 each that is 1.4 million gross. Even if you are selling rocks for $10, that is still 700k in gross income from a kilo that may run you 15-50k. > > Plus Sudhir started his studies in 1989, the crack boom was more of an early 80s issue. Point being you can’t take Sudhir’s experience with the black kings in Chicago and assume all street dealers operate under the same structure. The Black kings had a very corporate structure in their crack dealership. So you’re trying to say that a typical street dealer in the 80’s made 700k a year? Really? You’re right that you can’t extrapolate from one gang in Chicago. But you can’t take a gang members word for it in his autobiography either. At least Sudhir’s data came from a ledger. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/113 "2012-10-18T23:05:45Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Empathy, sympathy or giving people a pass on evil because of some alleged excuse such as mental illness or the abuse they suffered in the past is… > > …wait for it… > > participation in evil. > > It is enabling, excusing, defending and giving permission for these people to continue to engage in evil acts by attempting to shield them from the consequences of their actions and the disapproval of others. > > It is _Conspiracy to Commit Evil_. You cannot really get in the head of someone who is genuinely mentally ill. What is clearly evil to a normal person could seem like a perfectly reasonable thing to do to someone who is hallucinating, or otherwise disengaged from reality. One of my aunts attacked a nurse. She was in hospital, suffering from schizophrenia, and seriously believed that the woman trying to tranquilise her was actually trying to kill her, and fought her off, injuring the nurse. In her mind, it made perfect sense- in her head, it was self defence so _she was in the right_. By the way, my aunt responded to treatment, but sadly killed herself a few weeks later. I may deplore the fact that she attacked an innocent health worker, but I can’t help but sympathise with her. Some people never respond to treatment, or never get treatment, and things horrific to any normal person could make as much sense in their heads as that did to my aunt. Mental illness can make some people do evil things, without being evil people. They certainly should not be allowed to damage others, but they can equally certainly deserve empathy. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/114 "2012-10-19T01:35:57Z")
> [@ExcitedIdiot](#): > > So you’re trying to say that a typical street dealer in the 80’s made 700k a year? Really? > > You’re right that you can’t extrapolate from one gang in Chicago. But you can’t take a gang members word for it in his autobiography either. At least Sudhir’s data came from a ledger. Where did I say that, I said that my math shows a potential 700k profit if you buy a kilo of coke for 20-30k and turn it into 70,000 rocks. Of course, you’d assume supply and demand would drive down the price, that is a massive mark up. The wholesale cost of a rock would be about $0.40. Again, the book you reference was based on a highly structured, saturated drug market (the early 90s). I am referencing street gangs where the street dealers bought the coke wholesale themselves, made the crack and sold it in a new market (the early 80s). The income wouldn’t be the same for the two. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/115 "2012-10-19T01:37:05Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The real world is far more complicated than that. I tend to believe people who believe in equality of outcomes, irrelevant of circumstances, would probably be on the evil side had they been born in a bad environment. Derision of/contempt for empathy is arguably the core of evil. I believe I stated that a bit wrong and for that I apologize. I believe strongly in empathy and compassion. I don’t believe in using that to excuse evil acts or worse, as an excuse to attack and harshly judge people who condemn evil. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/116 "2012-10-19T01:45:44Z")
> [@Seanette](#): > > Really? Tell that to family members of druggies, especially their children who get abused and neglected when the drugs come before anything else (voice of experience here), or the adult relatives who get stolen from or sponged from to get money for drugs. lol I assume you feel the same way about those who sell alcohol? You know only about double the amount of people who use HEROIN recreationally get addicted to those who use alcohol, right? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/117 "2012-10-19T01:50:20Z")
Yes. A psychopathic spree killer. He will never be released from prison. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/118 "2012-10-19T05:18:59Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > lol > > I assume you feel the same way about those who sell alcohol? > > You know only about double the amount of _people who use HEROIN recreationally get addicted to those who use alcohol_, right? Heroin makes you addicted to people who drink alcohol Let that be a warning kiddies. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/119 "2012-10-19T07:09:49Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > Are machetes standard equipment in orphanages (and supposedly other child-care facilities as well) now? That would vary with location. There’s places where machetes are as ubiquitous as table knives; in Costa Rica they’re a basic tool. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2012, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765/120 "2012-10-19T23:29:38Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I believe I stated that a bit wrong and for that I apologize. I believe strongly in empathy and compassion. I don’t believe in using that to excuse evil acts or worse, as an excuse to attack and harshly judge people who condemn evil. Yeah, my mistake, I jumped to conclusions too. I just see a lot of grey areas. Dangerous people need to be segregated so they can’t harm others irrelevant of their motives (illness, evil, etc), I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with that. I think the disagreement is more about retribution vs rehabilitation and how much each should play. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-ever-known-a-truly-evil-person/637765.md?page=7)