# Have you heard this origin story of the 50 star US flag? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 6, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519 "2022-07-06T18:53:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/21 "2022-07-07T06:54:23Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Then again, given the Heft story, I suppose I’m a bit skeptical about any flag history on current websites. 😉 No kidding. I’d guess back in the 50s, many more people still believed the Betsy Ross story so this didn’t seem so far fetched. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I mention that because I read _Reader’s Digest_ (which has come up in this thread) cover to cover every month when I was a kid. Me too. I wonder how much false information was spread from _Reader’s Digest_ and Paul Harvey. Their popularity was pretty huge for a couple of decades. > [@Bootb](#): > > Because I’m a voracious reader, and I came across that story years ago. So you could have named him without reading the article? That’s impressive. > [@gnarator](#): > > I seem to recall Cecil covered this topic years ago, but this story never came up. > a little searching: [How will stars be arranged on the flag if the U.S. ever has 51 states? - The Straight Dope](https://www.straightdope.com/21341956/how-will-stars-be-arranged-on-the-flag-if-the-u-s-ever-has-51-states) Cecil has us covered up to 53 stars. So if we do D.C. and Puerto Rico, then we’ll have to grab something else. Climate change tells us we have to move north. Either we dust off Trump’s plan to buy Greenland, or it’s look out Canada, here we come! > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > That’s where the science of “tesselation” is used to arrange the stars. That sounds like it should be a bondage term. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/22 "2022-07-07T11:52:39Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Cecil has us covered up to 53 stars. So if we do D.C. and Puerto Rico, then we’ll have to grab something else. Climate change tells us we have to move north. Either we dust off Trump’s plan to buy Greenland, or it’s look out Canada, here we come! My extensive knowledge of numerology has enabled me to design the following 54-star flag: [![](http://i.ompldr.pw/jpcpa.png) ](http://i.ompldr.pw/jpcpa.png) I ask only for a modest percentage. Extra star flags available upon special request. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/23 "2022-07-07T20:04:27Z")
17x3? Or add two at once: 52 is easy, if you’re willing to go with only eight rows of stars. Otherwise, not so much. Maybe go with a (death-)spiral, easy to add at random… Oops, missed Cecil’s post. Still, six rows is a pretty big change! ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/24 "2022-07-07T20:17:33Z")
Having an interest in vexilology, I had read the story online, but didn’t assume it was true as it sounded like an anecdote. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/25 "2022-07-07T22:07:52Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I ask only for a modest percentage Too late, I bet some high school kid already stole and submitted your flag. You have to move fast in the flag designing game. > [@themapleleaf](#): > > I had read the story online, but didn’t assume it was true as it sounded like an anecdote. Any idea how long ago you read the story? Or where? I’m a bit curious if it ever appeared in some sort of authoritative source. ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/26 "2022-07-07T22:15:11Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > > [@themapleleaf](#): > > > > I had read the story online, but didn’t assume it was true as it sounded like an anecdote. > > Any idea how long ago you read the story? Or where? I’m a bit curious if it ever appeared in some sort of authoritative source. It was earlier this year. I’m afraid I don’t remember the source, but it was probably not a particularly authoritative one, it was some website I googled. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/27 "2022-07-08T04:10:57Z")
I had heard the story before. The Eisenhower White House got a _lot_ of suggested designs from the public for the upcoming 50-star flag, and several of them came very close to what was eventually adopted. Most of them, though (and I’ve seen copies from the Eisenhower Library), were amateurish, laughable, bizarre and/or fugly. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/28 "2022-07-08T06:00:00Z")
I too had heard the story before and I’m not even American. I suspect I read the Snopes article. I do remember thinking that the story cannot have been as simple as was being suggested. The design adopted was one of the more obvious options, so I assumed that quite a few people were likely to have independently suggested it. Also, the important step in the process wouldn’t have been coming up with those obvious options, but the decision about which one to use. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/29 "2022-07-08T06:18:06Z")
Yes. I’m quite the reader. Never heard the story. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/30 "2022-07-08T17:42:33Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > It was earlier this year. I’m afraid I don’t remember the source, but it was probably not a particularly authoritative one, it was some website I googled. Okay, thanks. I’m not sure if I should be embarrassed or not that a Canadian knows more fake US flag stories than I do. 🙂 > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Most of them, though (and I’ve seen copies from the Eisenhower Library), were amateurish, laughable, bizarre and/or fugly. The [one](https://www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/styles/image_optimization_1200px/public/images/flag-designs-13.png?itok=HKBJVges) that @Skywatcher posted above is a bit like that, especially the signature. I can’t figure if it’s signed by a doctor or a kid from Maryland because the printing is pretty childish. > [@APB](#): > > I suspect I read the Snopes article. The _[snopes](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/united-states-redesign-flag/)_ article actually uses the _Slate_ article from the OP in it’s debunking of the Haft story. I couldn’t find anything there earlier. Did they use to have a different article? It’s been such a long time since I looked at _snopes_ that I didn’t even think to look there. Speaking of redesigning the flag, if Macy Gray’s [version](https://images.mktw.net/im-355759?width=700&size=1.5628815628815629) is in the running I’m going to have to vote no. Looks like someone randomly spilled ice cream sprinkles all over. Not to mention squishing in the two extra stars. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/31 "2022-07-08T19:32:01Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > The _[snopes](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/united-states-redesign-flag/)_ article actually uses the _Slate_ article from the OP in it’s debunking of the Haft story. I couldn’t find anything there earlier. Did they use to have a different article? It’s been such a long time since I looked at _snopes_ that I didn’t even think to look there. But the _Slate_ article itself cites the _Snopes_ article, which is dated 22 June 2021. Looks like _Snopes_ updated their article in the light of the _Slate_ one, clunkingly adding a few new paragraphs at the end with the new research. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/32 "2022-07-10T15:19:51Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Were there any 49-star flags manufactured in the year or so between Hawaii and Alaska’s admittance? A related question: In early 1959 when Alaska became a state, did Americans already widely know Hawaii was going to become a state that year too, or did it take the average person by surprise? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/33 "2022-07-10T16:45:30Z")
I was only nine then so I might be misremembering but one of the reasons I asked whether the 49-star flag was produced much was because it was known to be only a short period before the 50th state was admitted. The link in **kenobi** ’s reply mentioned people buying them as a collectible back then, intending on selling them at a high price later. This is apparently still true as some nerf is attempting to sell his “vintage” 3x5 flag on eBay for $250 while the going rate for _new_ ones range from $16 to $150. Another one-foot long hand flag is up for $90. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/34 "2022-07-10T17:18:53Z")
Wow, I’m surprised how many are on eBay. I wonder how they can prove it’s vintage. A new flag would probably be pretty easy to “age”. I think you’d need to be pretty knowledgeable about flags to spot a real one. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/35 "2022-07-10T17:32:48Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > > [@DesertDog](#): > > > > Were there any 49-star flags manufactured in the year or so between Hawaii and Alaska’s admittance? > > A related question: In early 1959 when Alaska became a state, did Americans already widely know Hawaii was going to become a state that year too, or did it take the average person by surprise? Yes, it was widely known, and only a relatively limited number of 49-star flags were produced, because it was expected that most people would just wait to get a 50-star flag when the time came. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/36 "2022-07-10T21:06:33Z")
I vaguely remember hearing of this story, but it’s not anything I would have remembered without direct prompting. I’m glad at least one such myth isn’t carrying through. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/37 "2022-07-10T21:36:18Z")
FWIW: Alaska officially entered the Union on January 3, 1959. Hawaii on August 21, 1959. Both states were considered for admission together for the classic US reason: [racism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Statehood_Act#Civil_rights,_Alaska,_and_Hawaii). Southerners wanted to get Alaska admitted at the same time as Hawaii in order to “balance” things out politically. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/38 "2022-07-10T23:33:30Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > Of the people who say that they’ve never heard of Robert Heft or his story, do any of you consider yourselves to be voracious readers? Voracious reader; never herd the story (or, don’t remember reading it). Now I’m so cynical that I ask: how can I believe the Slate article isn’t a hoax? I mean, there’s just as much evidence either way. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2022, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/39 "2022-07-11T00:06:41Z")
My mom totes a 49 star flag in 1959. Foreground: me with Scrunt Hdqs. sign. [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/8NUrf1O.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/8NUrf1O) ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2022, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519/40 "2022-07-11T05:51:30Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > Foreground: me with Scrunt Hdqs. sign I give up, what does that mean? Lots of different stuff shows up if you google it. Also, do you still have that tiny head growing out of the top of your regular head? That’s gotta be awkward sometimes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-heard-this-origin-story-of-the-50-star-us-flag/967519.md?page=3)