# Have you met someone who didn't know a really well-known pop or historical reference?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [March 22, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658 "2013-03-22T17:57:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 14
### Author:  [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2013, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/261 "2013-04-01T07:41:50Z")
> [@Lamia](#):
>
> Prior to this thread I would have assumed not, that it was just a second morning meal, but the OP seems to suggest that there’s something special about this concept with regard to the LOTR and that one would have to read the books/see the movies to understand this.
In the LOTR, “second breakfast” isn’t a universal thing among all creatures - hobbits have second breakfast, but men/elves/dwarves don’t. The joke is the hobbits think about food a lot more than the other races, and when another character (Aragorn) hears hobbits talking about stopping for second breakfast (while they are on the run in the wilderness and trying to make good time) he is bemused.
Actually, hobbits like to have seven meals a day when they can: breakfast, second breakfast, elevensies, luncheon, afternoon tea, dinner, and supper.
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### Author:  [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2013, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/262 "2013-04-01T09:55:35Z")
> [@Kaio](#):
>
> Huh. I don’t know that this is SO weird. I was certainly aware of what “bowdlerize” means, but until I looked it up just now
Yes. I would have expected an english teacher to know the derivation, but he didn’t know the word at all.
On a similar theme I dated a women who was concerned about the manipulative influence of a particular singing teacher – but had no idea what I meant by “Svengali”.
Of course she’d never read “Trilby” (I don’t recommend it), but “Svengali” is still a common meme – used in film reviews and to describe any Svengali-like music empresario. I would have thought that by age 30 most people would have been familiar with the idea, even if they couldn’t spell it.
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### Author:  [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/263 "2013-04-02T01:29:45Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#):
>
> I wonder if anyone will get the reference to a certain Dead Kennedy’s song if I were to drop it in here.
Yes. Yes I will.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/264 "2013-04-02T01:47:09Z")
> [@SCAdian](#):
>
> I’m 58, and I can’t name any Van Halen songs.
> [@Siam\_Sam](#):
>
> Not even “Jump”?
I know the name Van Halen, and I know the song _Jump_, but I didn’t know it was a Van Halen song. To me they were just another loud arena band with big hair, and I might even be wrong about that.
Ditto with _Guns & Roses_, _Bon Jovi_, yada yada yada. I couldn’t name a song any of these bands played. Pop music really faded out for me in about the mid-80s.
I’m 55, btw.
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### Author:  [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/265 "2013-04-02T02:57:47Z")
> [@SCAdian](#):
>
> I’m 58, and I can’t name any Van Halen songs.
62 and I can’t either. If you ask me if I know Jump, I do, but wouldn’t know it was Van Halen.
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/266 "2013-04-02T02:58:42Z")
> [@Melbourne](#):
>
> . . . Of course she’d never read “Trilby” (I don’t recommend it), but “Svengali” is still a common meme . . .
I read it recently. Not that bad, really. Fascinating look at the era. Interesting to read alongside “Moon and Sixpence” by Maugham.
(I just read “Barry Lyndon” by Thackeray. Hm… Movie was better…)
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### Author:  [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/267 "2013-04-02T09:58:06Z")
> [@Eliahna](#):
>
> A quick Google suggests it’s primarily a US/Canadian term.
That would explain it.
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### Author:  [@BookCollecting101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BookCollecting101)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/268 "2013-04-02T10:42:39Z")
It works both ways. As I get older, I find that I have no idea who the current bands are nor the current songs - but just ask me about anything from the 60s - the 80s or 90s. I always used to laugh at the expression “Kids these days…” Now my partner and I smile at each other as bits of what we know of as “pop culture” goes over the heads of young folks.
There are some things that are just wrong, however… Who doesn’t know who Hitler was? If we do not learn, we can be doomed to repeat such horrible things. Who won the American Revolution? Come on… Don’t they teach basic American History in school? Vietnam was one of the most tragic eras of American history and we seem awfully close to repeating it if we are not very careful in the Middle East. These things are important to life as we know it today if we do not want to be doomed to the mistakes of the past… The 1920s are way before my time, but I have read The Great Gatsby. Jazz was before my time but I sure appreciate some good Jazz. When did dumb become cool? Old movies are cool and fun to watch. Old books are new to someone who has never read them. I have always treasured curiosity and strive to learn new things every day. Don’t get me wrong… I am not the smartest person on the planet - but I make darn sure I am not one of the dumbest.
An intellect is a terrible thing to waste…
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/269 "2013-04-02T12:26:15Z")
When she was working as a university reference librarian, Mrs. J. was once asked (by a journalism student) what war was going on in 1943.
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### Author:  [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/270 "2013-04-02T15:31:50Z")
> [@StGermain](#):
>
> I was talking to one of my aunts today and she didn’t know what creationism is. I think she probably knew what evolution is, but I’m not positive. She’d never heard of the Scopes Monkey Trial (and we live in Tennessee, although we aren’t native Tennesseans). She’s retired from a relatively high position in a good-sized company, she’s a college graduate, and she’s not dumb. She said, “well, it all happened before I was born and doesn’t affect me, so why would I care?”. I was dumbfounded. I didn’t think to ask her if she believed in the Book of Genesis as literal truth - we’re Catholic, so that’s unlikely.
>
> StG
Well, some folks just don’t give a damn about history. My dad has fond memories of going to D-level minor league games as a boy. When I did my thesis on that D League and showed him their compiled statistics, he just shook his head and wondered aloud why anyone would have saved that stuff.
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### Author:  [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/271 "2013-04-02T19:04:05Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#):
>
> I know the name Van Halen, and I know the song _Jump_, but I didn’t know it was a Van Halen song. To me they were just another loud arena band with big hair, and I might even be wrong about that.
>
> Ditto with _Guns & Roses_, _Bon Jovi_, yada yada yada. I couldn’t name a song any of these bands played. Pop music really faded out for me in about the mid-80s.
>
> I’m 55, btw.
Wouldn’t one call Van Halen and Guns 'N Roses rock, not pop? Bon Jovi crossed over that poppy line far too many times, hence their lack of respectability.
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### Author:  [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/272 "2013-04-02T19:10:20Z")
I meant to add that this is one of those cultural things I have to remind myself that people often don’t know… distinctions between genres, the reason alt-rockists like me don’t really find Bon Jovi respectable (and have mixed feelings about VH and G 'N R), and so on.
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### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/273 "2013-04-02T19:17:37Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#):
>
> Wouldn’t one call Van Halen and Guns 'N Roses rock, not pop? Bon Jovi crossed over that poppy line far too many times, hence their lack of respectability.
I agree with this. I would classify VH and GnR as metal which is a subset of rock.
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### Author:  [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/274 "2013-04-02T19:30:20Z")
> [@hajario](#):
>
> I agree with this. I would classify VH and GnR as metal which is a subset of rock.
And I would say that both are hard-rock, whereas metal describes Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, and in general the (usually) dark folk/classical derived work that follows from Black Sabbath.
With that said, there is often overlap, to a greater or lesser extent.
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### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/275 "2013-04-02T20:14:27Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#):
>
> And I would say that both are hard-rock, whereas metal describes Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, and in general the (usually) dark folk/classical derived work that follows from Black Sabbath.
>
> With that said, there is often overlap, to a greater or lesser extent.
Agreed. That’s better.
You’ll have to forgive me. I’m a jam band guy. 🆒
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/276 "2013-04-02T20:40:18Z")
> [@BookCollecting101](#):
>
> An intellect is a terrible thing to waste…
Ah, the motto of the United Honky College Fund. 😃
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### Author:  [@BookCollecting101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BookCollecting101)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/277 "2013-04-02T22:12:26Z")
> [@tdn](#):
>
> Ah, the motto of the United Honky College Fund. 😃
Spoken like a true underachiever…:rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/278 "2013-04-02T22:15:46Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#):
>
> All I can say is I worked in retail (both general and electronics) for more than a decade and I _never_ heard “notions” used to describe needles, threads, buttons and other sewing sundries.
Did you work anywhere that sold fabric and notions? If not, I honestly wouldn’t expect you to run across the word all that often. But I assure you the term is alive and well at fabric and craft stores.
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### Author:  [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/279 "2013-04-03T00:46:24Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#):
>
> Wouldn’t one call Van Halen and Guns 'N Roses rock, not pop? Bon Jovi crossed over that poppy line far too many times, hence their lack of respectability.
Rock music is still popular music, though. The term “pop music” is sometimes used broadly to refer to all popular music (rock, hip hop, country, etc.), and not the specific genre called “pop”. I can’t speak for **Boyo Jim** , but I would assume that someone in their 50s who indicates that they don’t really keep up with pop music anymore means contemporary popular music in general, not just certain genres of it.
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-met-someone-who-didnt-know-a-really-well-known-pop-or-historical-reference/653658/280 "2013-04-03T03:55:09Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#):
>
> I know the name Van Halen, and I know the song _Jump_, but I didn’t know it was a Van Halen song. To me they were just another loud arena band with big hair, and I might even be wrong about that.
>
> Ditto with _Guns & Roses_, _Bon Jovi_, yada yada yada. I couldn’t name a song any of these bands played. Pop music really faded out for me in about the mid-80s.
>
> I’m 55, btw.
Just a young 'un. I’m mid-50s myself, but maybe it’s because these bands were hugely popular over here is why I know them.
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