# Have You Seen Fatty's Shorts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 11, 2005, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727 "2005-04-11T01:24:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/1 "2005-04-11T01:24:10Z")
Roscoe “Fatty” Arbuckle’s short comedies, that is. TCM showed a dozen on them last week and I’ve been watching the tapes this weekend. He’s no Keaton or Lloyd, but he’s _good_! Amazing physical comic and athlete for his size, and a good actor, too. Great supporting company: Mabel Normand, Al St. John (usually his love rival), all those Sennett comics . . . The writing of the films wasn’t often up to his level, though there were some great laugh-out-loud moments in _Fatty’s Tintype Tangle_ (1915), _The Waiters’ Ball_ (1916) and _Coney Island_ (1917–Luna Park looked like _fun!_). So–Virginia Rappe aside–has anyone else seen Fatty’s shorts? ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/2 "2005-04-11T02:02:48Z")
I don’t recall if I’ve seen any of his silent shorts, but I know I’ve seen one of his sound shorts. Not on the pantheon level, but still funny, and it’s a shame he died when he did. ---
**Author:** ![Zap\_Rowsdower](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3da27b/32.png) [@Zap\_Rowsdower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zap_Rowsdower)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/3 "2005-04-11T02:52:13Z")
I saw part of one last week but don’t recall the title right now. The rest I managed to tape but haven’t got around to watching yet. I’ve not seen much of his work, but the bits and pieces I have seen look to be quite enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/4 "2005-04-11T03:34:33Z")
Alas, I ran out of tape before Fatty came up. I got 6 hours of whatever was on before though. ---
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/5 "2005-04-11T03:36:25Z")
There is a very interesting article about him on the Crime Library site. He wasn’t a criminal but at one stage was suspected of murder. He was later cleared but the scandal ruined his career. [http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious\_murders/classics/fatty\_arbuckle/1.html](http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/classics/fatty_arbuckle/1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/6 "2005-04-11T13:51:10Z")
The whole Virginia Rappe thing is a hot-button for me, because _she’s_ the one who wound up dead, and it was a classic “blame the victim” thing. All of Arbuckle’s many friends painted her as a clap-ridden whore who got what was coming to her. Actually, she was a promising actress; I have reviews from her clippings folder at Lincoln Center, and she got nothing but rave reviews from the critics, who all said she was a bright new talent and had a great future. Arbuckle’s acting career was ruined, but he continued to write and direct steadily for the rest of his life and was acting again for a couple of years before he died. It’s true he didn’t kill her and should never have been tried, but everyone at that party was guilty of negligent manslaughter for not getting her to a doctor when she took ill (it turned out to be a burst bladder from an untreated infection). Anyway, I’m glad to have seen so many of his films, now. I like him more than I do Chaplin or Lagndon (both of whom I think were over-rated), but he’s no Keaton or Lloyd. By the way, _Coney Island_ was bizarre—Buster Keaton had not yet developed his “stone face,” so he was mugging and laughing and crying . . . It was just _wrong_. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/7 "2005-04-11T13:56:04Z")
From that “Crime Library” link: > [@](#): > > It is believed that she had had five abortions by the age of 16. She had also suffered bouts of venereal disease. At the age of 17, she gave birth to an out-of-wedlock child. Wisely reasoning that she was not equipped to raise the child herself, she put it into foster care . . . But her career never really took off. There were rumors that, like many aspiring actresses, she dabbled in prostitution in order to pay her bills. And so on and so on. What are the sources? I’ve done investigating on this, and the only sources I can find are Arbuckle’s friends, such as Adela “couldn’t tell the truth if you asked her what time it was” Rogers St. John. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/8 "2005-04-11T14:32:48Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > The whole Virginia Rappe thing is a hot-button for me, because _she’s_ the one who wound up dead, and it was a classic “blame the victim” thing. They were **both** victims. However, American popular news outlet’s will not stand for such an idea, so some one has to be tarred and feathered. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/9 "2005-04-11T14:54:54Z")
Back to the OP, yes, I saw many of his shorts many years ago and when I was ten he was my favorite silent comedian. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/10 "2005-04-11T15:02:42Z")
I think David Wallechinsky had a long article about the Virginia Rappe “situation” is in his [20th Century Almanac](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316920959/qid=1113231354/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/102-8897391-8280924) (real title’s too long). Maybe he supplied some sources. However, the Wallace/Wallechinsky family did also “list” a lot of junk. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/11 "2005-04-11T15:34:40Z")
I would very much like to know whether Arbuckle was guilty, or framed. I have heard credible, strident accounts on both sides of the issue. I was leaning towards thinking he was framed. But the stance of such an authority as **Eve** gives me pause. I read the Wallace/Wallechinsky account of the Arbuckle-Rappe case in one of their _Book(s) of Lists_ or _People’s Almanac_s. It claimed that Arbuckle was very guilty, and that Rappe was an innocent victim. I don’t recall sources being listed. There was a very different account in the true crime newsletter _Murder Can Be Fun_, written and published by John Marr. He claimed that Arbuckle was set up, framed and targeted for blackmail. I seem to recall he gave sources. (FWIW, Marr is a very thorough, skeptical researcher: it was from his work that I learned that the medieval Scottish cannibal murderer Sawney Beane was a myth, and the _Guiness Book of Records_ fell for that one). I will try and dig up that issue of _MCBF_. I don’t want to hijack this thread too much – maybe I should start another on this subject? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/12 "2005-04-11T15:40:15Z")
Regardless of credible arguments on either side of the issues, legally, he is innocent. Personally, I believe that is what is true of reality as well. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/13 "2005-04-11T16:02:19Z")
From the research I have done—and I’ve done a lot and am very skeptical and take source reliability into account—no one was “guilty,” and yes, Roscoe was shaken down. Virginia took ill at the party with a burst bladder from a longstanding infection (this was in pre-antibiotic days, remember). The “guilt” was that no one at the party did more than ask the hotel doctor to see her; she wasn’t taken to the hospital for two days (though she probably couldn’t have been saved anyway, at least she could have been given painkillers, poor thing). There is some evidence that Arbuckle held ice on her abdomen to try and _help_, which is why Virginia was heard to say “he hurt me.” Once he was brought to trial, his studio stabbed him in the back, and any number of shady characters tried to shake him down; the San Francisco DA, for political reasons, also wanted a conviction. It was a sad, dirty story from beginning to end, and to this day many people think Arbuckle raped Virginia, and that she was a dirty whore, neither of which are remotely true. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/14 "2005-04-20T03:58:52Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > I read the Wallace/Wallechinsky account of the Arbuckle-Rappe case in one of their _Book(s) of Lists_ or _People’s Almanac_s. It claimed that Arbuckle was very guilty, and that Rappe was an innocent victim. I don’t recall sources being listed. Definitely not the account in the “20th Century Almanac.” Don’t know what the “List” books said, if anything. But here are some excerpts from the “20th Century Almanac:” Rappe had a reputation for getting drunk, taking her clothes off, and falsely accusing men of trying to rape her. “Expert medical testimony” revealed the Rappe had had five abortions, was pregnant at the time of death, and had gonorrhea." Those two points were brought out in the testimony at trial time, but it doesn’t say who said she had the rep or identify the doctors. The article was written by a chap named Everett H. “Tevvy” Ball. Maybe he can supply the sources. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/15 "2005-04-20T08:14:30Z")
I did see Fatty’s car at the Nethercutt Collection today! Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/16 "2005-04-20T13:06:36Z")
That whole ice thing seemed so bizarre, from the first time I heard about this, as a little boy to whom any sex scandal was fascinating. In the absence of any real medical knowledge, the idea of holding ice to the abdomen as a numbing and fever-reduction agent actually makes it makes sense. But unfortunately Arbuckle made the same stupid career decision as many young talents today: he should have stuck to the art forms he was good at, instead of going into Rappe! ::: ducks and runs ::: ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/17 "2005-04-20T13:18:21Z")
::Scott throws a bucket of water on Polycarp:: ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/18 "2005-04-20T13:22:42Z")
[Haughtily ignoring **Polycarp**] I did finally see Fatty’s full-length feature _Leap Year_, and it was pretty good (he played a shy millionaire being pursued by a multitude of gold-diggers). Again, he was no Keaton or Lloyd, and his material wasn’t as good or the gags as well-plotted, but it was an enjoyable little comedy and he was quite good in it. The heroine, by the way, was poor [Mary Thurman](http://silent-movies.org/Ladies/annex/Thurman.jpg) (who wore a Louise Brooks/Colleen More bob in it—1921, long before Brooks or Moore were wearing it!). She died in 1925 at age 30—Roscoe was just bad luck on the gals. ---
**Author:** ![Terrorcotta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dbc845/32.png) [@Terrorcotta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrorcotta)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-fattys-shorts/298727/19 "2005-04-20T15:56:26Z")
I have really enjoyed this month on TCM! Getting to see some of the really old films has been an eye opener. I’ve had a chance to expose the Offspring to the roots of 20th century comedy and he has been learning. I am holding out for the Mae West movies myself. I saw one last year and had a chance to really listen to the dialog. What a woman!!!