# Have you SEEN the David Brooks article "The Republicans’ Incompetence Caucus"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 24, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-david-brooks-article-the-republicans-incompetence-caucus/735640 "2015-10-24T16:49:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-david-brooks-article-the-republicans-incompetence-caucus/735640/1 "2015-10-24T16:49:22Z")
Conservative commentator takes on the Freedom Caucus. A must read! The gloves are off! The Freedom Caucus energy was great for the GOP … to a point, and I guess that point has been reached. [The Republicans’ Incompetence Caucus](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/opinion/the-republicans-incompetence-caucus.html) > [@](#): > > This produced a radical mind-set. Conservatives started talking about the Reagan “revolution,” the Gingrich “revolution.” Among people too ill educated to understand the different spheres, political practitioners adopted the mental habits of the entrepreneur. Everything had to be transformational and disruptive. Hierarchy and authority were equated with injustice. Self-expression became more valued than self-restraint and coalition building. A contempt for politics infested the Republican mind. He’s only two years late behind “This Modern World” in coming to this realization. [Tea Party Tim and Plutocrat Pete 1](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/16/1262446/-Tea-Party-Tim-and-Plutocrat-Pete#) [Tea Party Tim and Plutocrat Pete 2](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/15/1006274/-Tea-Party-Tim-and-Plutocrat-Pete) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-david-brooks-article-the-republicans-incompetence-caucus/735640/2 "2015-10-24T16:57:05Z")
Forgot the last one [Tea Party Tim and Plutocrat Pete 3](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/09/14/1420422/-Cartoon-The-breakup) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-david-brooks-article-the-republicans-incompetence-caucus/735640/3 "2015-10-25T00:38:47Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Conservative commentator takes on the Freedom Caucus. A must read! > > The gloves are off! The Freedom Caucus energy was great for the GOP … to a point, and I guess that point has been reached. > > [The Republicans’ Incompetence Caucus](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/opinion/the-republicans-incompetence-caucus.html) > > He’s only two years late behind “This Modern World” in coming to this realization. > > [Tea Party Tim and Plutocrat Pete 1](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/16/1262446/-Tea-Party-Tim-and-Plutocrat-Pete#) > > [Tea Party Tim and Plutocrat Pete 2](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/15/1006274/-Tea-Party-Tim-and-Plutocrat-Pete) Yeah, but at least more conservatives will see Brook’s piece rather than the comic. by 1000x. Might produce more effect. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-david-brooks-article-the-republicans-incompetence-caucus/735640/4 "2015-10-25T01:40:34Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Yeah, but at least more conservatives will see Brook’s piece rather than the comic. by 1000x. Might produce more effect. You underestimate the [epistemic closure](http://www.newrepublic.com/blog/jonathan-chait/what-conservative-epistemic-closure-means) of the modern conservative. In 2003 Bruce Bartlett, the designer of the Kemp Roth tax cut program, discovered to his surprise that conservatives don’t read the New York Times: [INDENT]In 2003, he provided some explosive quotes that served as the lead of a damning New York Times magazine cover story about the Bush administration. Here’s what happened next: [INDENT][INDENT] A few days after the article appeared I was at some big conservative event in Washington. I assumed that my conservative friends would give me a lot of crap for what I said. But in fact no one said anything to me–and not in that embarrassed/averting-one’s-eyes sort of way. They appeared to know nothing about it. ``` After about half an hour I decided to start asking people what they thought of the article. Every single one gave me the same identical answer: I don't read the New York Times. Moreover, the answers were all delivered in a tone that suggested I was either stupid for asking or that I thought they were stupid for thinking they read the Times.[/INDENT] [/INDENT][/INDENT] ``` ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-david-brooks-article-the-republicans-incompetence-caucus/735640/5 "2015-10-25T02:13:22Z")
Well, keep this in mind whenever someone suggests the GOPpers are Fascists: Fascists know what propaganda is and they know enough to _not believe their own_. And for everyone who thinks this is all part of some Grand Master Plan the Republicans have to steal the election, I’ll let the master politician himself respond: “Gentlemen, Chicolini here may talk like an idiot and look like an idiot. But don’t let that fool you. He really is an idiot.” The interest of this piece is that Brooks is a kind of windsock which shows which way the mainstream Moderate Republican Party is blowing, and right now it’s blowing Holy Shit Our Supporters Really Are Crazy-by-Jebya’s Doomed, gusting up to I Wonder If Fox News Is Hiring. IOW, this is absolutely nothing new. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-david-brooks-article-the-republicans-incompetence-caucus/735640/6 "2015-10-25T02:33:58Z")
The OP perhaps doesn’t realize that the Freedom Caucus didn’t even exist before the beginning of this year. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-david-brooks-article-the-republicans-incompetence-caucus/735640/7 "2015-10-25T03:57:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The OP perhaps doesn’t realize that the Freedom Caucus didn’t even exist before the beginning of this year. True, but it’s just one particular, more pointed manifestation of the trend which Brooks is addressing. What I find sort of disappointing in Brooks’ article is to me the clearly visible elephant in the room which he’s ignoring. The way I see it, yes, he’s correct that there has been an increasing and slowly degrading “chain of rhetorical excesses” coming from the Republicans in Congress, but this is really just the by-product of the party’s larger strategy for survival. This national strategy has been to gain control of state legislatures whenever possible (especially in key states), specifically with the end of engaging in careful redistricting (after the last three censuses) to create a better long-term likelihood of maintaining a foothold in the House, (as well as to influence important state-level policies such as voter laws, etc., which can affect Senate and presidential elections). In order to succeed at this, it often has become necessary to put up the kind of candidates who must use this kind of rhetoric to win over the constituencies of these carefully crafted districts. Brooks acts like this reactionary, anti-government rhetoric just kind of appeared out of thin air, but really it’s a necessary tool for a very deliberate strategy, which the whole party is using. The Republican Party as a whole deliberately made this bed, and now the Republican Party as a whole has to sleep in it–right next to Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-david-brooks-article-the-republicans-incompetence-caucus/735640/8 "2015-10-25T05:18:09Z")
I dunno. I kinda doubt this was planned so much as stumbled into. The Money Republicans kept depending on the Troglodyte Right to line up and save their bacon. Now they’ve grown surly and demanding, but largely out of an exaggerated sense of their own importance. The “normal” Republicans are still a sizable chunk of the voting public, but they can’t get to “50% plus one” without the Trogs. Its a bit like the Parliamentary constipation that occurs in Israel, whereby a relative minority of citizens have an outsized influence, simply by withholding consensus. Who ever _plans_ to lose control? They kept trading away shit until they discovered that their nuts were in the other guy’s pocket. So, yeah they were aiming all of that shit at getting more power in the State houses, but they were planning on keeping it. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-david-brooks-article-the-republicans-incompetence-caucus/735640/9 "2015-10-25T14:02:25Z")
…and the giant elephant in the room being that the Democratic Party is undergoing similar tumult as the “true” lefties like Sanders are ballooning in mainstream popularity against the Establishment Troglodytes like Hillary. IOW, political parties evolve. The Republicans are dealing most simply with a lack of respectable, genuine leadership to keep people in line. The Democrats have a clearer understanding of how to win going forward: pander to demographics and embrace social liberalism. The Republicans know this is the ticket, but are utterly incompetent at getting everyone on board. The Rubios are the future of the GOP; not the Trumps and Carsons. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-david-brooks-article-the-republicans-incompetence-caucus/735640/10 "2015-10-25T15:04:51Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > …and the giant elephant in the room being that the Democratic Party is undergoing similar tumult as the “true” lefties like Sanders are ballooning in mainstream popularity against the Establishment Troglodytes like Hillary. Except Hillary is electable in a general election _and_ she’s pretty sure to survive the primary. The GOP can’t find anyone who’s got both of those qualities anymore. > [@](#): > > The Democrats have a clearer understanding of how to win going forward: pander to demographics and embrace social liberalism. The Republicans have been pandering to demographics, too. They’ve just been pandering to the _wrong_ demographics, and now it’s coming back to haunt them. > [@](#): > > The Republicans know this is the ticket, but are utterly incompetent at getting everyone on board. The Rubios are the future of the GOP; not the Trumps and Carsons. Or the Jebs, which is why the Bush campaign is actually doing more damage to the GOP than Trump and Carson combined: As long as Jeb is the _de facto_ Establishment candidate, he’ll tie up money and endorsements and people that Rubio needs to run a successful campaign. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-david-brooks-article-the-republicans-incompetence-caucus/735640/11 "2015-10-25T16:18:59Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > …and the giant elephant in the room being that the Democratic Party is undergoing similar tumult as the “true” lefties like Sanders are ballooning in mainstream popularity against the Establishment Troglodytes like Hillary. Not what I see in the polls, Clinton is still way ahead. And as 538 noted Biden’s supporters are much more likely to support Clinton, so one can expect even more support for Hillary to come. > **[2016 Democratic Presidential Nomination Polls | RealClearPolling](https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/democratic-primary/2016/national)** > > Explore poll data on the 2016 Democratic Presidential Nomination. Gain insights into key trends and electoral dynamics. | RealClearPolling ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-david-brooks-article-the-republicans-incompetence-caucus/735640/12 "2015-10-25T16:37:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The OP perhaps doesn’t realize that the Freedom Caucus didn’t even exist before the beginning of this year. > [@guizot](#): > > True, but it’s just one particular, more pointed manifestation of the trend which Brooks is addressing. > > What I find sort of disappointing in Brooks’ article is to me the clearly visible elephant in the room which he’s ignoring. The way I see it, yes, he’s correct that there has been an increasing and slowly degrading “chain of rhetorical excesses” coming from the Republicans in Congress, but this is really just the by-product of the party’s larger strategy for survival. That is what I think too, and 538 has an article showing where the conservatives of today that are driving the ship are coming from. > **[Not Even Paul Ryan Can Bridge The House GOP’s Divisions](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/paul-ryan-speaker-house-republicans/)** > > House Republicans had to pry open Paul Ryan’s hands to accept a gavel he really didn’t want, and on Thursday, Ryan announced that he would run for the job of sp… > [@](#): > > Most House Republicans aren’t simply “establishment” backers or “tea party” rebels. In fact, the plurality in the middle belongs to what The New York Times has dubbed the “Vote No, Hope Yes” caucus. These Republicans vote strategically with the leadership just enough of the time to jockey for plum committee assignments, but they voted against Boehner enough to shield themselves from a tea party primary back home. > > However, Ryan has been a rare “Dependable,” just like Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, who folded his speaker bid after the House Freedom Caucus opposed him. He’s one of only 51 members (21 percent of the conference) who have voted with leadership all five times, including on the continuing resolution last month that kept the government open, despite the conservative push to shut it down over federal funding for Planned Parenthood. > > The 36 “Rebels” and “Agitators,” who overlap almost perfectly with the membership of the House Freedom Caucus, hold a fundamentally different perspective: 72 percent were elected after President George W. Bush left office, and most won their primaries by running against not only President Obama, but also the Bush-era bailouts and the GOP “status quo” of tax and spend. They almost all hail from safe GOP seats. > > By contrast, the 51 “Dependables” skew toward veteran members who were first elected in a different era, when earmarks and accumulated clout were tickets to political security. A majority — 55 percent — were first elected before Bush left office. Many hail from swing districts outside the South where bipartisanship pays political dividends. Ryan is Exhibit A: he was first elected in a Wisconsin swing district in 1998 and voted with Democrats to pass the Troubled Asset Relief Program bailout in 2008. In essence I do think that extreme conservative activists were and are making the difference, and it is mainly because they have the money. After Bush left office the plutocrat’s money has allowed the extreme activists to add more more purity tests and it is the fear of being voted out in their districts or that the activists managed to put one of their men in place what is driving the Republican party now.