# Have you seen the Thunderbird Photo? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 9, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616 "2005-06-09T17:27:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/1 "2005-06-09T17:27:16Z")
When I was around 13 years old (three decades ago) I saw a photo that intrigued me. Years later now and I’m thinking ‘why not try to look it up on the net?’ I try a lot of different search parameters with no luck. Then I happen upon a link discussing the “Thunderbird Photograph”. It seems that quite a few people remember seeing this photo. Most seem to think (like me) that it was in a book, but can’t recall the title or author. Some think it never existed and everyone is just remembering the mental picture they got from reading a vivid description of it from someone who claimed to have seen it. This doesn’t fly as far as I’m concerned, as I was looking for it before I knew there was a mystery. The photo (as I remember it) was a printed, halftone reproduction with the definite look of early photography–more modern than daguerrotype, but probably not by much. The subject was a large pterosaur-looking creature nailed or otherwise affixed, spread-eagled, to the side of a barn. In front of it stood five or six men in western garb. Visual clues which I can no longer remember specifically made me think, at the time, that it was taken somewhere in the desert states of the Southwest. I’m not suggesting that it was an actual photo of a real, extinct, flying reptile, and I really don’t want a debate about cryptozoology. I put this in IMHO because I’m polling to see if anyone else remembers seeing this and also in the hope that someone can point me to a reproduction of it–if it, indeed, exists outside of imagination. I am aware that because of the mystery surrounding this subject (and human nature) there have been hoaxed photos purporting to be the ‘original’, so don’t bother pointing to these. So, have you seen it? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/2 "2005-06-09T17:35:27Z")
I have not, but perhaps [Lobsang](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobsang_Rampa) has. Wait, I spoke too soon. Here you go: [http://www.bookrags.com/sampissue/sub11.html](http://www.bookrags.com/sampissue/sub11.html) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/3 "2005-06-09T17:39:56Z")
I’ve seen it – somewhere where they were debunking the picture. The author of the asrticle pointed out that the “Civil war Soldiers” didn’t look right – there were things wrong with their uniforms, and they all looked too well-fed – more like re-enactors than real soldiers. The idea of pterodactyl + thunderbird has been knocking around pop culture for a while. It showed up in a 1950s Western comic drawn by Jack Kirby (“Rawhide Kid” or “Kid Colt” or something like that - Donald Glut reprints a panel in his **Dinosaur Scrapbook** ), and it was used in the Ray Harryhausen film **The Valley of Gwangi**. so I wouldn’t be surprised to see it show up in a hack Civil War photo. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/4 "2005-06-09T17:47:25Z")
[The hoax photo.](http://images.snapfish.com/34355:3523232%7Ffp47%3Dot%3E232:%3D6%3B%3C%3D878%3DXROQDF%3E23237%3B7924435ot1lsi) ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/5 "2005-06-09T17:51:40Z")
My article had a link going to an article, and the article had a link taking you to a now dead page, made to advertise a ::shudder: Fox show. [Here](http://www.haxan.com/portfolio/freakylinks/WWWFRE~1.COM/FREAKO~1/TAILS_~1/THUNDE~1.HTM) is the correct link to what the article talked about. So that you can confuse people, [here](http://www.haxan.com/portfolio/freakylinks/WWWFRE~1.COM/FREAKO~1/TAILS_~1/MORE/THUNDE~5.HTM) is a direct link to the photo. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/6 "2005-06-09T17:52:31Z")
**Scott Plaid** , your link refers to the obviously hoaxed photos I mentioned in the OP as not being of interest. **Cal** , the Civil War soldier photos are, again, the same obvious hoaxes that have been produced _since_ discussion of the ‘real’ photo began. There were no soldiers in the photo I (and others) remember seeing. Soon someone will come along and refer to the (possibly related) _Tombstone Epitaph_ newspaper story. All of this is interesting, but I really just wanted to see if any other 'Dopers can corroborate my memory of this (very likely hoaxed) photo. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/7 "2005-06-09T17:55:52Z")
Oh, good. Two more links to the stuff I said not to bother pointing to. I knew I’d get this kind of stuff, but _really!_ ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/8 "2005-06-09T17:57:59Z")
Further down the page in my last link, there is a drawling, suposedly of a photograph, of a creature, hanging headdown, tied to a tree, spread eagled. No barn, but people often combine elements in their memory. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/9 "2005-06-09T18:00:04Z")
> [@Rich Mann](#): > > Oh, good. Two more links to the stuff I said not to bother pointing to. > > I knew I’d get this kind of stuff, but _really!_ No bother, really! ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/10 "2005-06-09T18:03:19Z")
Are you sure you aren’t really looking for an “authentic” picture of an “actual” pterosaur taken in the 19th century? ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/11 "2005-06-09T18:05:14Z")
So is one of the hoax photos a _hoax_ hoax photo? ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/12 "2005-06-09T18:10:25Z")
**Scott** , I don’t see that on your link, but I know what you are talking about. I’ve seen that drawing. I recognize that memory can play tricks on you, and admit that this may be the case here. However, I was looking for this photo _before_ I ever saw any of the hoaxes or reports that have been mentioned so far. If my memory is a false it is _not_ because of a confusion involving any of these images. If, again, there was never a “real” photo in a real book as I seem to remember then I am making the same mental mistake that has _led to_ these things. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/13 "2005-06-09T18:12:16Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > Are you sure you aren’t really looking for an “authentic” picture of an “actual” pterosaur taken in the 19th century? No. Everybody knows that the ‘real’ Big Bird lives in the San Antonio, TX area. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/14 "2005-06-09T18:12:18Z")
I am glad this is not GQ. RTFA. In my very first post here, I posted: [http://www.bookrags.com/sampissue/sub11.html](http://www.bookrags.com/sampissue/sub11.html) In your OP, you asked for confirmation. The link above gives it. Since you are not bothering to read the fucking article, I am posting the revevant portions below. > [@Massimo Polidoro](#): > > It all began in April 26, 1890, when the Tombstone Epitaph, an Arizona local newspaper, published a sensational story: “Found in the Desert-A Strange Winged Monster Discovered And Killed On The Huachuca Desert.” In it the monster was described as “a huge alligator with an extremely elongated tail and an immense pair of wings.” The monster had been sighted and shot by two ranchers who were returning home from the Huachuca Desert. When the creature was certainly dead, they proceeded to make an examination and “found that it measured about ninety—two feet in length and the greatest diameter was about fifty inches.” The wingspan, “from tip to tip,” was about 160 feet. The wings, as in the pterodactyl, were “composed of a thick and nearly transparent membrane and were devoid of feathers or hair, as was the entire body.” > > Unfortunately, according to the story, the two cowboys left the monster where it was and only cut off a small portion of the tip of one wing as a souvenir. A search, however, was to be sent next day “for examination by the eminent scientists of the day.” No trace of the bird or of the commission’s report, however, has ever appeared. Harry McClure, a youngster early last century in Lordsburg, New Mexico, when the two ranchers came to town, remembered the episode. He had friends who knew them well and thought the story was not a hoax. Was the creature photographed? No, it was not, according to McClure, and in any case the Epitaph did not carry any pictures with its article. > > Others, however, think differently. **Writer Jack Pearl told about the Epitaph story in a 1963 issue of Saga Magazine and explained that the strange bird was brought to town and photographed. It was put in a wagon and, after reaching Tombstone, was nailed to the wall of a barn: six men stood before it with their arms outstretched touching fingertip to fingertip. Pearl, however, seems to have gotten many details wrong, as Mark Hall clearly explained in Fortean Times magazine, and the story of the picture has never received any corroboration. There were many, though, who remembered seeing such a photograph, or a photocopy of it, in the hands of Ivan T. Sanderson, the famous naturalist and Fortean author who died in 1973. Apparently, Sanderson gave the photocopy to two young men who travelled into the heart of northern Pennsylvania to inquire about reports of giant birds in that region and lost it in the course of their search. All kinds of publications were searched, from National Geographic to Fate magazine, including all the back issues of the Epitaph, but no traces of such a photo were ever found.** > \*\*“The numerous vague recollections of seeing this missing photograph,” concludes Hall in his article, “might well be erroneous. \*\* Like many others, I have spent many hours looking for it and like them I will continue to look. Everyone who reads about this phantom photograph has the same desire to see it for themselves.” And then, after many years, a mysterious picture emerges from the Internet. The article goes on to talk about the photographs posted. also, you claim “your link refers to the obviously hoaxed photos I mentioned in the OP as not being of interest.” WTF! Sure, so you are asking for a certain photograph I can not produce, but instead only an article showing the situation. However, that does not mean you ever posted what you think you did in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/15 "2005-06-09T18:17:33Z")
> [@Hoodoo Ulove](#): > > So is one of the hoax photos a _hoax_ hoax photo? That’s the thing, see? The whole issue has become confused because of these hoaxers who may (wittingly or unwittingly) be hoaxing what was a hoax to begin with. It’s all very confusing. But I still maintain that I saw an actual image in an actual book. Whether that image was real is really neither here nor there. The question on my mind is if anyone here has seen it. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/16 "2005-06-09T18:28:01Z")
**Scott** , calm down, dude. I did read that article. It came up in my searches. It is very interesting. It, however, does not contain or link to an image that could possibly be the source of my memory. As I said, I recognize the existance of the Tombstone Epitaph newspaper article and its possible relation to all this. The reason that I did not put this in GQ or GD is because I really don’t care to discuss whether the image ever existed or if it was real. This is a poll. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/17 "2005-06-09T18:29:46Z")
> [@Rich Mann](#): > > Oh, good. Two more links to the stuff I said not to bother pointing to. > > I knew I’d get this kind of stuff, but _really!_ Rich Mann, calm down, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/18 "2005-06-09T18:31:37Z")
> [@Rich Mann](#): > > So, have you seen it? Since people were kind enough to post links to it, yes, I have seen it. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/19 "2005-06-09T18:36:20Z")
Okay, I’ll take a chill pill. I’ll be gone for a little while, so don’t think I’m abandoning my own thread. I’ve got to go to a parent/teacher conference. Back in a while, Rich ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616/20 "2005-06-09T18:44:23Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Since people were kind enough to post links to it, yes, I have seen it. Yes, there were links posted. No, they were not what I asked for, but, in fact, what I specifically didn’t want. From the OP > [@Rich Mann](#): > > I am aware that because of the mystery surrounding this subject (and human nature) there have been hoaxed photos purporting to be the ‘original’, so don’t bother pointing to these. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-seen-the-thunderbird-photo/307616.md?page=2)