# Have you used niggardly in conversation? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 11, 2010, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291 "2010-11-11T09:25:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/41 "2010-11-11T16:15:34Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > Yes, it’s like a small child with his finger 2 inches away from his sibling saying “I’m not touching you, I’m not touching you, I’m not touching you! See, I’m not touching!” > > My default assumption is that someone using “niggardly” is not doing so because it’s the best word choice, but because are desperate for a reaction and can then make a point about the evils of political correctness. My opinion about that person usually not going to be “what a large vocabulary” or “what a racist,” but “what a twit.” It does not leave a good impression. That’s mostly my impression, too. If I use a word that can often elicit funny looks, and then I get the funny looks and… what? Feel good about myself? I just don’t get the impetus. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/42 "2010-11-11T16:17:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **orcenio** and I disagreed about that in the GD thread, and that’s what prompted the comments that brought this thread about. (He’s right that the OP didn’t accurately summarize what he said.) People could use the word as a substitute racial slur but I don’t see any reason to make a defaul assumption. Context will pretty much take care of it one way or the other. Amarinth doesn’t think it is being used as a racial slur at all. I don’t either. This topic is a juicy one for me, because I actually have a little character flaw related to this: I enjoy using words like ‘peruse’ and ‘bemused’ because I know folks will try to correct me sometimes thinking that I’m using it wrong. That’s because there are certain words that are commonly misunderstood. It amuses me to have folks ‘correct’ me when I know they are wrong. I know that it is dumb of me to enjoy that, but hey. But, if I were to use ‘faggot’ to mean ‘bundle of sticks’ and someone misunderstood me, I wouldn’t think they were stupid for not knowing the alternate meaning. I probably would just use the word bundle instead. Especially around gay people. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/43 "2010-11-11T16:20:08Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Amarinth doesn’t think it is being used as a racial slur at all. I don’t either. You’re right. Using it as a provocation, then. > [@](#): > > But, if I were to use ‘faggot’ to mean ‘bundle of sticks’ and someone misunderstood me, I wouldn’t think they were stupid for not knowing the alternate meaning. I probably would just use the word bundle instead. Especially around gay people. I don’t have any argument with you there. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/44 "2010-11-11T16:20:14Z")
I know the word and would probably use it if I ever had a use for it, but around these parts you say a word like that in public and you’re likely to get shot. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/45 "2010-11-11T16:23:56Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > But, if I were to use ‘faggot’ to mean ‘bundle of sticks’ and someone misunderstood me, I wouldn’t think they were stupid for not knowing the alternate meaning. I probably would just use the word bundle instead. Especially around gay people. I recall about 25 years ago listening to a public speaker from Australia giving a lecture (to an American audience) and talking about having “faggot parties” where they would build a huge bonfire and take turns throwing faggots into it. :eek: Right in the middle of his lecture, somebody from the wings of the stage tapped him on the shoulder and whispered into his ear. His eyes got wide and he said, “Oh, dear!” It was classic. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/46 "2010-11-11T16:25:09Z")
Jesus Christ, it’s like I’m the only one who works among adults here. > [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Who the fuck cares where you place your high regard? Come on. If you honestly think people are stupid because they haven’t heard the word ‘niggardly’ then that is your own judgmental nonsense to labor under. No, I don’t think people are stupid because of a single word that may not have heard of. There are many that I’ve not heard of. I do attribute stupidity to such people if they both (a) know they don’t know what the word means, and (b) attribute some meaning to its use _despite their not knowing what the word means_. That’s just plain stupid. > [@amarinth](#): > > My default assumption is that someone using “niggardly” is not doing so because it’s the best word choice, but because are desperate for a reaction and can then make a point about the evils of political correctness. My opinion about that person usually not going to be “what a large vocabulary” or “what a racist,” but “what a twit.” It does not leave a good impression. If I chose to use the word it would merely be because that it’s the word that popped into my mouth during a fluid discourse amongst a group of peers. If a peer is judging my motivation for choosing a particular word, then he is obviously focused on the wrong thing, i.e., he’s not listening to what I’m saying, and so I’d have that much less respect for him (you know, if I knew his mind was not focused on the task at hand). Reaction-seeking and discussing political correctness isn’t something that’s done in adult, working situations. Obviously there are situations – locker rooms, the water cooler – where standards of speech aren’t adhered to and social interaction is allowed to be more informal. In that case, someone using “niggardly” _may_ be trying to invoke a reaction, just as much as someone trying to guess their supervisor’s bra size or stating that they hate whatever reality show is currently popular is trying to invoke a reaction. Even then, there are limits (and “niggardly” in ironic or other non-serious use probably doesn’t cross that limit). ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/47 "2010-11-11T16:25:13Z")
I didn’t vote as I don’t see a choice that fits my view. I’m American and don’t use it, but I also don’t feel that it shouldn’t be used. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/48 "2010-11-11T16:26:16Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Amarinth doesn’t think it is being used as a racial slur at all. I don’t either. > > This topic is a juicy one for me, because I actually have a little character flaw related to this: > > I enjoy using words like ‘peruse’ and ‘bemused’ because I know folks will try to correct me sometimes thinking that I’m using it wrong. That’s because there are certain words that are commonly misunderstood. It amuses me to have folks ‘correct’ me when I know they are wrong. I know that it is dumb of me to enjoy that, but hey. > > But, if I were to use ‘faggot’ to mean ‘bundle of sticks’ and someone misunderstood me, I wouldn’t think they were stupid for not knowing the alternate meaning. I probably would just use the word bundle instead. Especially around gay people. Disagree. “Niggardly” (1) is a bit archaic, but not _that_ archaic - some folks still use the word; and (2) unlike “faggot”, it doesn’t actually have any other popular meaning. It just sounds like it does! A better analogy would be someone feeling offense because someone else used the word “assume” - as in “some people assume those who use ‘niggardly’ have bad motives” - because it had an “ass” sound in it. “Who you calling an ass”? ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/49 "2010-11-11T16:41:29Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > A better analogy would be someone feeling offense because someone else used the word “assume” - as in “some people assume those who use ‘niggardly’ have bad motives” - because it had an “ass” sound in it. “Who you calling an ass”? I agree my example fails…I couldn’t think of a good one, so I tried to use ‘faggot’ and failed. But your example is just silly. “Niggardly” isn’t a commonly used word in everyday conversation. So it is much less retarded to misunderstand that then thinking someone is calling you an ‘ass’ when using the word ‘assume’. As a matter of fact, I hope you were joking, because that entire example falls all apart. Now, if Balthisar is sitting amongst his peers, puffing pipes and squinching monocles in his eye and twirling a cane, or whatever, then sure, ‘niggardly’ might come tumbling out of his mouth. But in those kinds of cases, I’m assuming his company is i_ntellectual_ enough to recognize the word, so he has no fear of anyone misunderstaning. In company where there is misunderstanding likely, and he uses that word, he fails at good communication. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/50 "2010-11-11T16:49:48Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I agree my example fails…I couldn’t think of a good one, so I tried to use ‘faggot’ and failed. > > But your example is just silly. “Niggardly” isn’t a commonly used word in everyday conversation. So it is much less retarded to misunderstand that then thinking someone is calling you an ‘ass’ when using the word ‘assume’. As a matter of fact, I hope you were joking, because that entire example falls all apart. > > Now, if Balthisar is sitting amongst his peers, puffing pipes and squinching monocles in his eye and twirling a cane, or whatever, then sure, ‘niggardly’ might come tumbling out of his mouth. But in those kinds of cases, I’m assuming his company is i_ntellectual_ enough to recognize the word, so he has no fear of anyone misunderstaning. In company where there is misunderstanding likely, and he uses that word, he fails at good communication. Granted, “niggardly” is far more obscure than “assume”. I’m simply stumped to come up with an example of a word that is (a) just as obscure as “niggardly”, but not more so; and (b) can be mistaken, _on its sound alone_, for something offensive. So both examples we are using aren’t on the money, but mine I think cuts closer - because we aren’t looking for a word that has a different contemporary meaning, but something that just _sounds_ like it does. A bit of a … dare I say it? … a bit like a _homophone_. [Can I use that word around gay folks, without offense? :D] Point is though that I think you are over-rating how obscure “niggardly” is. It is _sort of_ archaic, but not 18th century archaic. A word my dad would use, in everyday conversation, but that I would find a bit of an affectation. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/51 "2010-11-11T16:50:19Z")
I’ve probably used it in conversation at one point or another. I am quite the lexophile, and will use esoteric words for the sheer joy of vocabulary. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/52 "2010-11-11T16:54:35Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > This. > > Also, it’s just an ugly word. Why would I use a word that’s ugly and reminds me of racism, when there are perfectly acceptable alternatives? So is nipple a problem also? How about conspicuous? Flipper? Raccoon? ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/53 "2010-11-11T16:59:58Z")
Malthus, understood. I didn’t learn the word until I heard about the controversy in the media a few years ago. Perhaps it isn’t that uncommon. I just never thought it was something you would hear in everyday conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/54 "2010-11-11T17:03:35Z")
“Difilade” isn’t often used in ordinary conversation either. In fact, I’m pretty sure I’ve used it exactly once in eleven years of posting here. [But when the word fit nicely](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12964796&postcount=29) into a post, I used it. Because, you see, that’s why we don’t have a language limited to the adjectives “good,” “ungood,” “plus-ungood,” and “doubleplus-ungood.” There are subtle variants between stubborn, mulish, pigheaded, and intransigent, and I like the ability to choose from all four. I try to match my presentation to my audience, but objectively, if my audience doesn’t understand the English language, the fault is theirs. So if we’re asking what’s wisest, the answer is: communicate effectively, choosing words your audience understands. But if we’re suggesting in any way it’s wrong to use a word that your audience may not know… it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/55 "2010-11-11T17:04:25Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Malthus, understood. I didn’t learn the word until I heard about the controversy in the media a few years ago. Perhaps it isn’t that uncommon. I just never thought it was something you would hear in everyday conversation. Fair enough. Could also be regional differences at work. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/56 "2010-11-11T17:04:49Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Granted, “niggardly” is far more obscure than “assume”. I’m simply stumped to come up with an example of a word that is (a) just as obscure as “niggardly”, but not more so; and (b) can be mistaken, _on its sound alone_, for something offensive. I masticate. In public. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/57 "2010-11-11T17:05:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I masticate. > > In public. Heh, that’s a pretty good example. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/58 "2010-11-11T17:12:52Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Granted, “niggardly” is far more obscure than “assume”. I’m simply stumped to come up with an example of a word that is (a) just as obscure as “niggardly”, but not more so; and (b) can be mistaken, _on its sound alone_, for something offensive. Not a great example, but Shih Tzu, at least the way I’ve often heard it pronounced. If you were just talking about little dogs in general but you just happen to always be using Shih Tzus as your example, I’d start to wonder what’s up with that. There are real-life trolls in the world who will say and do things deliberately to bait people. And there are people who will deliberately choose words they know others will misunderstand so that they can sniff about other people just being so sensitive and so politically correct. Those people aren’t polite. Polite people try to avoid giving offense and try to grease the wheels of social interaction rather than throw sand on them. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/59 "2010-11-11T17:14:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “Difilade” isn’t often used in ordinary conversation either. In fact, I’m pretty sure I’ve used it exactly once in eleven years of posting here. [But when the word fit nicely](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12964796&postcount=29) into a post, I used it. > > Because, you see, that’s why we don’t have a language limited to the adjectives “good,” “ungood,” “plus-ungood,” and “doubleplus-ungood.” There are subtle variants between stubborn, mulish, pigheaded, and intransigent, and I like the ability to choose from all four. > > I try to match my presentation to my audience, but objectively, if my audience doesn’t understand the English language, the fault is theirs. So if we’re asking what’s wisest, the answer is: communicate effectively, choosing words your audience understands. But if we’re suggesting in any way it’s wrong to use a word that your audience may not know… it’s not. Agreed. Except, I would try, regardless of my audience, to use the plainest language I have. Sometimes an idea _demands_ a big fancy word, and that is when it is most satisfying to pull one out. In those cases, it is the audience who comes up short if they fail to understand. I think we are also forgetting something else…niggardly\* sounds \*like ‘niggerly’. I mean, one may honestly not even catch the ‘d’ sound, so that makes it a bit different than your awesome example of masticating in public. [QUOTE=Malhus] Fair enough. Could also be regional differences at work. [/Quote] Sure. Could be that. Or my total and utter lack of any formal education beyond grade 7. Either/or. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291/60 "2010-11-11T17:14:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I masticate. > > In public. You probably matriculated, too, ya perv. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/have-you-used-niggardly-in-conversation/560291.md?page=4)