# Haven
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [September 10, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789 "2011-09-10T03:45:55Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/21 "2011-09-15T04:23:13Z")
I should perhaps be clear that, as far as I know, Sweet Talk Radio does not perform the theme for Haven. They have, however, provided music used during the show. For example, the song [We All Fall Down](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD4HrQ3TFLY), at the end of [Ball and Chain](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1677255/), is them. [NB: link for the song is to Youtube.]
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### Author:  [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2011, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/22 "2011-09-15T11:40:47Z")
Andre Fratto did the music for the title credits. I love it, and wish he’d do more work like that.
Yes, going by the size of the police department, the number of businesses, the number of people Nathan doesn’t know, and the functioning newspaper, Haven should be big enough to have 20-30 different churches, as well as Buddist groups, a synagogue, and maybe even a mosque. I know, that much diversity would clutter up the storyline too much…but there should be at least one good minister to counter the Rev’s evil.
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### Author:  [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/23 "2011-09-15T15:20:34Z")
> [@Morgyn](#):
>
> And WHY aren’t they giving it up? I suppose it’s because the story wouldn’t be so mysterious if they did, but I swear, the trope that people who have information but refusing to give it up until it’s almost too late is one I can do without. It’s STUPID. It’s juvenile, very much a “Nyaah, nyaah, I know something you don’t know!” (Imagine that last in the sing-song.)
>
> I could swear that they told Audrey back in Season 1 that they didn’t know who the woman in the picture was, and then it turns out they know lots about her.
This make sense. Samll towns, espcially really old small towns like in NE, tend to be very closed an insular. People don’t tend to air the town’s dirty laundry with outsiders and for most of season 1 Audry was an outsider. They also do not tend to talk about the bad things that have happened in the town unless it was widly known already (famous shipwreck, big storm, famous battle/person) as opposed to something like “the guy who went nuts in 1938 and murdered his family and the whole family has been strange since they came over on the Mayflower”. The Troubles are one of those things.
> [@levdrakon](#):
>
> So who’s the Colorado Kid? Based on Stephen King’s blah, blah, I know. Didn’t read it though.
In the show, the Colorado Kid was a stranger from Colorado who turned up dead on the beach at the start of the Trouble’s last appearance. This is somehow connected to Lucy/Audry.
The show has no relation to the Steven King story other than the title and the references to Randall Flagg in the opening sequence that implies that this is in the SK universe.
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### Author:  [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/24 "2011-09-16T16:00:37Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#):
>
> The show has no relation to the Steven King story other than the title and the references to Randall Flagg in the opening sequence that implies that this is in the SK universe.
According to the show’s website, there are numerous references to other SK stories scattered through it.
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/25 "2011-09-16T16:21:53Z")
> [@Morgyn](#):
>
> According to the show’s website, there are numerous references to other SK stories scattered through it.
Georgie Denbrough and what I assume is Pennywise are being used in promos for this season.
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### Author:  [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/26 "2011-09-16T22:20:45Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#):
>
> Georgie Denbrough and what I assume is Pennywise are being used in promos for this season.
Yeah, no. Obviously we were supposed to think that, but it wasn’t Georgie and Pennywise didn’t make an appearance. Instead it was a person’s memory of a clown they’d been frightened of at a birthday party, and the little boy with the boat just drew people’s attention to something else odd going on.
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [September 17, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/27 "2011-09-17T00:25:47Z")
> [@elfkin477](#):
>
> Yeah, no. Obviously we were supposed to think that, but it wasn’t Georgie and Pennywise didn’t make an appearance. Instead it was a person’s memory of a clown they’d been frightened of at a birthday party, and the little boy with the boat just drew people’s attention to something else odd going on.
See, I missed that ep.
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### Author:  [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)
#### Post date: [September 17, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/28 "2011-09-17T01:33:43Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#):
>
> See, I missed that ep.
Two different episodes, actually.
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### Author:  [@Inter\_Alia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inter_Alia)
#### Post date: [September 17, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/29 "2011-09-17T03:12:43Z")
Was anyone else waiting for the Rev to get up any second? I can’t believe they really killed him off.
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### Author:  [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)
#### Post date: [September 17, 2011, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/30 "2011-09-17T06:55:10Z")
I haven’t seen tonight’s episode yet, so ignore any comments that are contradicted by it.
> [@Morgyn](#):
>
> Duke is important to The Rev somehow, and The Rev doesn’t know that Duke knows that The Rev is responsible both for Evie being in Haven and for Evie’s death
I know they were collaborating, but did the Rev actually bring her there? OTOH, how can he not know that it was the Rev’s people that shot her? It’s super obvious and there’s no reason for the main duo not to tell him.
> [@Morgyn](#):
>
> As an aside, who in hell names their kid “Duke”? Is that his real name or a nickname, and if it’s a nickname, when and how did he get it? I don’t recall that being covered.
Seems like a common nickname, but I don’t remember it being addressed. And yes, it does seem like an Indiana type situation.
> [@levdrakon](#):
>
> So who’s the Colorado Kid? Based on Stephen King’s blah, blah, I know. Didn’t read it though.
Someone else already explained the CK in the show. Despite the marketing, the show is only related to the SK novella in the most marginal of ways. In the novella, a woman starts work as a reporter for a quaint Maine town newspaper, and asks the resident two old reporters about their most interesting story. Which turns out to be a mysterious body found on the beach without ID. Over the years more clues came to light and eventually it they identify the body but determine that the person left Colorado with no apparent motive and with not quite enough time to have appeared later dead in Maine. The mystery is not solved within the novella, but some theories become apparent if you read other King works. The TV series only keeps the name “Colorado Kid” but in a different context, and the two old reporters (although Audrey mirrors in some ways the new young reporter).
> [@elfkin477](#):
>
> He didn’t see Audrey or Lucy, Vince asked him specifically if it was Lucy he saw, and he said no..
Yeah but we, the audience saw her. It was clearly Lucy. He was lying. I also wonder why he would be afraid of her.
> [@Tapiotar](#):
>
> I do want to know more about the Colorado Kid thing – it’s too nebulous right now to have any resonance. What is the connection between Audrey/Lucy and Duke? Why doesn’t she have any of her own memories? Does she even exist as a real, independent person, or is she some unearthly entity that takes on huma form during the Troubles as a fixer?
It’s not entirely clear, but I don’t think she ever stops actually existing. Audrey has the same scar, which implies that her body never transubstantiates for periods of time. Also, the day of the Colorado Kid, everyone in Haven lost their memory. So I think it’s just a memory issue, and she keeps the same body.
> [@Tapiotar](#):
>
> One thing that bugs me is Nathan’s affliction. Supposedly, he can’t feel anything. But if so, how could he walk, eat, do much of anything? I know someone who lost feeling in his feet (neuropathy from a long-term vegetarian diet), and finds it almost impossible to walk, since he can’t feel the ground. Nathan is too all-around competent in his actions for someone who can’t feel.
I’ve read that the reason lepers are deformed is not because leprosy causes deformation, but because it causes lack of sensation, and without feeling lepers end up racking up injuries that people with normal sensation know to avoid, or avoid due to the pain involved, or get taken care of because of the pain involved. So I’d expect Nate to have a greater number of injuries and scars than the normal bloke.
What i don’t get is, it seems to have been established that you inherit a specific trouble from your parent when they die, but Nate got his trouble before his biological Dad was killed.
> [@Morgyn](#):
>
> What was worse, Duke kept (appearing) to trust her, even though he knew what she was and he’d seen that she had conned him multiple times just since coming to Haven!
I think it was more of, keeping your enemy close, to keep an eye on them. It was clear from him waiting for her in the room where he found the AMOR box that he was expecting her con. But playing along let him keep track of her. I think he knew she had an ulterior motive of some kind, the only thing he couldn’t predict was that she’d be involved with the reverend.
> [@Morgyn](#):
>
> And WHY aren’t they giving it up? I suppose it’s because the story wouldn’t be so mysterious if they did, but I swear, the trope that people who have information but refusing to give it up until it’s almost too late is one I can do without. It’s STUPID. It’s juvenile, very much a “Nyaah, nyaah, I know something you don’t know!” (Imagine that last in the sing-song.)
Shades of Lost! There’s a bunch of people not talking to each other and I’m not sure which you’re referring to without going back to examine the thread. But it’s applicable in all the cases - townspeople especially News guys not telling Audrey what they know about Lucy, Sheriff not telling his foster son what he should need to know to be the new Sheriff, Reverend not telling Duke about his father, etc. I hope each of these gets explained.
> [@Morgyn](#):
>
> I could swear that they told Audrey back in Season 1 that they didn’t know who the woman in the picture was, and then it turns out they know lots about her.
Yeah, they lied. It’s been established that they are reluctant to talk about it, but not yet why.
[quote=“all1966, post:17, topic:595789”]
It irritates me to no end how frequently Hollyweird feels the need to slap a collar of faith upon the Big Bad. Not that there aren’t plenty of Big Bads in the real world operating under the guise of religion, but still. Can’t the Big Bad just be a Mysterious Big Bad without having to toss religion into it?
Well… I agree in principle. But:
1. The troubles (or any supernatural phenomenon really) seem like they would be obviously in the domain of the local religious folk.
2. Although the show is only tenuously connected to King’s novella, the fact that Reverend Flagg from his works is… a reverend… gives them another reason to include religion.
> [@all1966](#):
>
> And I agree with the observation that Nathan’s Can’t Feel Nuthin But Audrey thing is a tad odd. Even for an odd show. Lotsa loopholes in that concept.
WHAT? How they handle his non-feeling is odd. But that audrey is a loophole isn’t weird at all. It’s been long established that her special power is immunity to the troubles.
> [@Tapiotar](#):
>
> Yes, the Rev is too much of a stereotype (and why not show some of the good clergy helping the Afflicted, and locking horns with the Rev?
I like that he wasn’t much of a presence in the first season. He’s fine as the big bad for this season, as long as they move on to something else for the next season.
> [@Morgyn](#):
>
> I was going to say, maybe Haven only has the one church? But then I thought, no, that can’t be right, you’d have to be a town of only 5 houses to only have one church in the USA.
I keep going back and forth. I think in the novella, the locale was an island. But it’s not clear to me if Haven is an island. It seems like she drove there (could be solved by ferry). But there are definitely lots of islands nearby. I didn’t pay enough attention to the geography.
> [@Tapiotar](#):
>
> Andre Fratto did the music for the title credits. I love it, and wish he’d do more work like that.
IDK if it’s still available, but I bought it on iTunes. I love a lot of the Indian-esque stuff they do on Sanctuary.
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#):
>
> This make sense. Samll towns, espcially really old small towns like in NE, tend to be very closed an insular. People don’t tend to air the town’s dirty laundry with outsiders and for most of season 1 Audry was an outsider.
Originally it was played off as her being an outsider, but since then, it’s clear that it’s at least equally as much that she looks like Lucy.
> [@Morgyn](#):
>
> According to the show’s website, there are numerous references to other SK stories scattered through it.
I noticed the boy’s hand in the sewer grate and the evil clown, but not anything else.
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### Author:  [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)
#### Post date: [September 17, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/31 "2011-09-17T21:35:56Z")
> [@limegreen](#):
>
> Who pays attention to his name? You just stare at his sexy face.
Eric Balfour, who is mesmerizing with the little goatee/mustache thing going. Watching a movie where he was clean shaven, I was kind of shocked at how much less hot he was. It made his face look 6 inches longer than it is.
P.S. His body is amazing. I watch Lie With Me whenever I can just to see him naked.
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### Author:  [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)
#### Post date: [September 17, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/32 "2011-09-17T21:57:12Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#):
>
> Yeah but we, the audience saw her. It was clearly Lucy. He was lying. I also wonder why he would be afraid of her.
It’s not clear. It was Emily Rose, true, but Lucy was from the 80s and had brown hair. The version Dave saw had red hair and was dressed in 50s/60s clothes. It’s more likely that this incarnation was from the time before last that the troubles came.
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### Author:  [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)
#### Post date: [September 17, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/33 "2011-09-17T22:09:31Z")
> [@Morgyn](#):
>
> According to the show’s website, there are numerous references to other SK stories scattered through it.
> **[Haven (TV series) | References to other works](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haven_%28TV_series%29#References_to_other_works)**
>
> Allusions to the written works of author Stephen King are made in the series regularly; the setting for the series is derived from King's novella The Colorado Kid (2005), although the name of the town is changed. On Syfy.com's Haven website, many of these references are explained for each episode. For example, Derry and Haven are both fictional towns in Maine previously used in the author's stories. One of the main characters receives a copy of a novel written by a character from King It is noted...
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### Author:  [@all1966](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/all1966)
#### Post date: [September 26, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/34 "2011-09-26T21:37:59Z")
OK, yesterday FINALLY got to watch the last two eps of Haven…WOW!!! One of my co-workers watches as well, and he made a beeline to my desk this morning so we could discuss, as he did the same thing to get caught up – LUV LUV LUV how much fun this show is getting to be!!
Lucy finally found…LUCY??? And how about the Rev getting his just desserts??? AWE.SOME. Lucy had some VERY good intel…much to chew on!
And Duke and Audrey are going to have some serious readjustments to make in their friendship, methinks!!
Oh, gee-golly, the buckets full of mysteriousness and intertwining of lives has me all a-twitter 🙂 And I can NOT believe this Friday is the seaon finale!! How did that all fly by so fast!!
I just know they are going to leave us with an extra large sized cliff-hanger…drat them.
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### Author:  [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)
#### Post date: [September 26, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/35 "2011-09-26T23:22:14Z")
Finally watched my DVR of this.
So Vince and Dave are more and more on the outs with each other. Duke has just found out he is also troubled, and it’s apparently a trait he inherited from his father, who … was working with the Rev and was trying to kill Audrey’s previous incarnation?
And from the previews, it looks as if the dead are coming back. Both the Rev and Duke’s dad seem to be making an appearance.
Good _grief_.
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### Author:  [@all1966](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/all1966)
#### Post date: [September 26, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/36 "2011-09-26T23:36:25Z")
I LOVE IT!!! Bring on the complicated weirdness 🙂
It’s kinda fun seeing the brothers at lagerheads, but I can’t figure who has the best interests of the town at heart at this point - Dave for siding with the Troubled, or Vince for wanting to keep things hush-hush. At this point, no matter what happens, there’s going to be conflict.
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### Author:  [@kirk1168](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirk1168)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/37 "2011-10-06T01:30:43Z")
Nothing about the finale?
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### Author:  [@all1966](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/all1966)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/38 "2011-10-06T18:38:16Z")
I just watched the finale the other day - and really really liked it!! Major cliff hanger, but fun that they are going to have a Christmas Ep - so’s Warehouse 13 - (which, as an aside - WOW on the season finale, as well!)
I find it odd we are just now seeing Nathan’s tatoo? Hasn’t he had his sleeves rolled up quite a bit in prior eps? And who took Audrey?? Did Duke get shot?? acck. It’s going to be interesting to see if/how they address these items for the Xmas ep, methinks.
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### Author:  [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/39 "2011-10-06T22:16:54Z")
> [@all1966](#):
>
> I just watched the finale the other day - and really really liked it!! Major cliff hanger, but fun that they are going to have a Christmas Ep - so’s Warehouse 13 - (which, as an aside - WOW on the season finale, as well!)
>
> I find it odd we are just now seeing Nathan’s tatoo? Hasn’t he had his sleeves rolled up quite a bit in prior eps? And who took Audrey?? Did Duke get shot?? acck. It’s going to be interesting to see if/how they address these items for the Xmas ep, methinks.
If it’s anything like last year’s Eureka Christmas episode, it’ll be something like a character talking about “hey remember that time at Christmas when” so I’m guessing they won’t have to touch on any of the ongoing plot points left by the cliffhanger.
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### Author:  [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)
#### Post date: [October 9, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/haven/595789/40 "2011-10-09T02:51:33Z")
And I just finished watching it, myself.
A few answers out of the Teague boys, at last! And we now know that whoever she is, she always shows up when the troubles do, and she never remembers who she was before, and she is always someone new. We also know an earlier name, and I think either Dave or Vince was in love with her when she was Sarah.
I have the same question as **all1966**. I’m positive we’ve seen Nathan’s forearms before, and that tattoo wasn’t there. It also looked as if it were almost pushing itself up from below.
I think those tattoos aren’t always visible, and that the people bearing them don’t always know they’re there. Remember the coroner’s daughter showing Duke that graveyard with that symbol on all the gravestones? It was plainly visible on her back when they were there, but I have a vague recollection that it disappeared minutes later.
I also think one of the Teague brothers TASERed Audrey. Something about the way Vince told Dave that he (Dave) wasn’t going to get in his (Vince’s) way this time.
I wonder what happened to all those people in the barn, and all those people arrested outside of it.
Thirteen episodes REALLY isn’t enough.
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