# Haven't even opened the package and I want to send it back. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 18, 2002, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404 "2002-11-18T22:52:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gazelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Gazelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gazelle)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/1 "2002-11-18T22:52:38Z")
In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143307&highlight=polar) I said that I wanted a Polar S120 Heart Rate Monitor. I haven’t even opened the package and I want to send it back because on the outside of the box, below a photo of two runners, it says: **Run Like The Pro’s** Why, God, why!?!? Run like the pro’s what? Run like the pro’s nose? Run like the pro’s car? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/2 "2002-11-18T22:56:37Z")
Well hopefully their expertise lays in making heart monitor’s 😉 and not in package grammar. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/3 "2002-11-18T23:09:22Z")
Aren’t apostrophies used when chunks of words are taken out, like didn’t instead of did not, or Pro’s instead of Professionals? ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/4 "2002-11-18T23:20:19Z")
**Tars Tarkas** is absolutely correct, and so is the grammar on that package. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/5 "2002-11-18T23:28:35Z")
Eh, **Tars** may be technically correct, but I seriously doubt that’s what the packagers were going for. I’d bet a large hunk of something that they meant it to be the plural of “pro”, not the possessive. ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/6 "2002-11-18T23:29:54Z")
Wrong. “Pro’s” is not a legitimate contraction (two words combined into one.) Advertisements is not “ad’s” for example; it’s “ads.” I had a similar experience in a Kmart the other day. I was flipping through the t-Shirts in the men’s department and there was a shirt with a sentiment along the lines of: “I’m not avoiding you, **your** just annoying.” I couldn’t believe that made it all the way through the design, approval, printing, sales, distribution and merchandising without anyone noticing that. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/7 "2002-11-18T23:34:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by voguevixen \* > \*\*Wrong. “Pro’s” is not a legitimate contraction (two words combined into one.) Advertisements is not “ad’s” for example; it’s “ads.” > > I had a similar experience in a Kmart the other day. I was flipping through the t-Shirts in the men’s department\*\* Gaudere strikes again. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/8 "2002-11-18T23:38:46Z")
I thought **men’s** was used correctly here. The department of clothing for men - men’s department. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/9 "2002-11-18T23:42:31Z")
But… it isn’t a contraction. Johns car, mens department. Right? Hey, I’m a furrener! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/10 "2002-11-18T23:47:38Z")
Turns out that the style manuals aren’t consistent about making the plural of an abbreviation. Some say that one should use an apostrophe, others say no, and still others say “it depends.” You pays your money, you takes your choice… ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/11 "2002-11-18T23:54:33Z")
Maybe it’s one of those English vs. American things? I was taught the Queens (Queen’s? :)) English in school. Youse guys obviously weren’t. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/12 "2002-11-19T00:02:12Z")
Yeah, around these parts, possessives and contractions have apostrophes, but plurals don’t. Beadalin\*\*'s\*\* post has so many rule **s** , it\*\*'s\*\* crazy. The only exception to the possessive-apostrophe rule I can think of is **its** as the possessive form of something belonging to an it: “The building is tall, but **its** windows are tiny.” ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/13 "2002-11-19T00:04:02Z")
To separate it from the contraction of “it” and “is” to “it’s”! So why no for “mens”? Help a furrener out, will ya? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/14 "2002-11-19T00:13:02Z")
OK, I got this from a dictionary: men’s room _n_ : a public restroom for men So, a department for men would be Men’s Department, right? Look, I’m an engineer, not an English major. So, furrener, whaddya think? Did it help? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/15 "2002-11-19T00:17:38Z")
Hmmm, hadn’t thought of that. So I guess we can apply that to “men’s”-- the default is that you use an apostrophe for any possessive, but if the possessive and the contraction will be the same, drop the apostrophe on the possessive. (My God, that was a sentence and a half.) So anyway, “men’s” would never be misunderstood to mean a contraction of “men is”, and “men” is already a plural of “man”, so it’s safe to use the possessive aprostrophe. Or something. If something belongs to or is for men: men’s. Same with, for example, women’s restroom or children’s playground. I think I should have stopped at saying that possessives always have apostrophes. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/16 "2002-11-19T00:19:27Z")
Well, that was helpful. Any Limeys in the house tonight? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/17 "2002-11-19T00:30:46Z")
For your information Coldfire, the correct usage is “mens’s” And don’t worry Gazelle The use of “pro’s” on the cover of your box is both accurate and correct. It’s what known as the Guisseppe exception, which states that if referring to an habitual ongoing active, than the gerund (i.e. "running) is obsconded to the present tense in the derivative posessive singular, necessitating the use of the apostrophe. So be very happy with your present, and don’t worry about it. ---
**Author:** ![Rutabegger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9de0a6/32.png) [@Rutabegger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rutabegger)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/18 "2002-11-19T00:32:02Z")
I can’t even believe I’m responding to this… 🙂 robes - more than one robe (“Find the robes.”) robe’s - belonging to (or associated with) a rope (“Find the robe’s cord.”) robes’ - belonging to a bunch of robes (“Find the robes’ rack.”) But, as **Beadalin** points out “Men” is already plural so Men’s is right. Unless we want to be silly and call it the “Mens’ Department” -R ---
**Author:** ![Rutabegger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9de0a6/32.png) [@Rutabegger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rutabegger)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/19 "2002-11-19T00:34:13Z")
“Mens’s” _snort_ ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404/20 "2002-11-19T00:36:07Z")
So would it be “John’s car”, or is it “Johns car” because “John’s” looks too much like a contraction of “John” and “is”? Is that the exception - so, always apostrophes, except when it makes it look like a contraction? And thanks. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/havent-even-opened-the-package-and-i-want-to-send-it-back/137404.md?page=2)