# Having a 1600 on your SATs and a lawyer doesn't make you God. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 21, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727 "2003-08-21T17:35:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Morrigoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/858c86/32.png) [@Morrigoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morrigoon)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/241 "2003-08-27T07:17:52Z")
Oh lordy :rolleyes: cite (again): > [@](#): > > **From the [article](http://news-observer.com/front/story/2800082p-2588649c.html) in the OP:** > In July, after seeing that Edmonson failed one class and got at least one D and several C’s on his final grade report, the admissions office rescinded its offer. I don’t call that a B average. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/242 "2003-08-27T07:21:16Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t call that a B average. Are you even reading my posts? I said he had a B average in his final YEAR, other than the non-required class that he failed. Your cite does nothing to contradict that. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/243 "2003-08-27T07:33:08Z")
OK, maybe his high school was different than mine. We had each class for the entire year. I’ll do the math again by semester. Say he had 6 classes his senior year. We know in his final semester he failed one. We don’t know what he got in that same class the first semester. He had a 2.6 GPA the final year, and 12 total grades. 2.6 x 12 = 31.2 Subtract the grade points from the class he failed, and then divide by 10, and you get his GPA other than the class he failed. I will give the possible GPA’s he could have had in classes other than the class he failed, based on the grade he got in that class the first semester: A: 2.72 B: 2.82 C: 2.92 D: 3.02 F: 3.12 Now, we don’t know what grade he got in the first semester for the class he failed in the second semester. If he failed, then in classes other than the class he failed he had a 3.12 GPA, which is not bad at all. I think it is likely he did poorly in the first semester in the class which he failed in the second semester. At best he may have gotten a C, which would mean a 2.92 GPA in the rest of his classes. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/244 "2003-08-27T07:41:37Z")
Since the article says he failed a class, and does not say it was only the final semester he failed, the most likely conclusion is that he had a 3.12 GPA average in classes other than the failed class. 3.12 is not great, but I think it is very likely if not for the non-required failed class he would have been accepted. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/245 "2003-08-27T12:18:33Z")
You’re discounting the non-required class he failed? ISTM that colleges are kind of fond of looking at all work completed. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/246 "2003-08-27T12:20:38Z")
Drat! Left off “or attempted” after “completed.” ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/247 "2003-08-27T14:06:09Z")
You don’t get an F in a highschool class all of a sudden. There are several options that you can do before you fail. (btw these are concepts for how to get ahead in university. 1.) Get a Tutor. Clearly there was money in the household to pay for this. When the time came to explain why he flunked there would be a track record of having asked for help. 2.) Show up for the damn class. Hey here’s a concept. The article says he missed 18 days of school that final semester. That is something like one day a week. I would also bet he was skipping individual classes on the days he actualy bothered to show up. If you want your transcripts to show you took calculus then maybe just maybe you should pass it. 1. Drop the class. If it has gone so far that it isn’t possible to save it Get out. If it isn’t required to graduate and the F won’t be of value then drop it. In that Fs don’t count toward graduation, it wasn’t required in his credit numbers. Add another study hall and work on the company or maybe the class that is coming in a D during the time. Take music appriciation or another computer class. There is a possiblity he didn’t realise it was so bad till too late, if that is the case then see #1 and #2. Maybe he would have gotten in without the F. I would also be willing to bet he would have gotten in with the F and the rest of the classes the A’s and high B’s he normaly got. Yes it is harsh but the options for life are alot tougher for **Morrigoon’s** 19 year old pregnant waitress he may have to sit next to in comunity college, and she is actually doing her best to deal with the consequences of her actions, rather than making mommy and daddy fix it. ---
**Author:** ![carimwc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac8455/32.png) [@carimwc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carimwc)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/248 "2003-08-27T16:50:03Z")
[This](http://www.news-record.com/news/local/gso/edmonson19rk.htmarticle) says he didn’t have Bs his senior year, only Cs, Ds, and Fs and that his GPA would have been 1.3 for his senior year. That’s a hell of a drop from a 3.8 cumulative average. Remember the 3.5 is his cumulative average. You can still have a horrendous year but do well in others and your cum GPA will be ok. A 1.3 senior year, or for any year, is a big difference. If you combine that with the letter from UNC stating “We expect you to continue to achieve at the same level that enabled us to provide this offer of admission; we also expect you to graduate on time.”, then he did not keep up his end of the bargain? Not at all. A 1.3 is not continuing to achieve at the same level. That’s slacking off a bit too much. [This](http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031770623405&path=!frontpage&s=) article also mentions the 1.3 GPA. I also feel that the SAT’s don’t mean much either. A 1600 means that you are just really good at taking multiple choice tests. That’s about it. And a 1600 isn’t quite a perfect score under the new system. He could have missed a few questions and still gotten a 1600. That’s not perfect. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/249 "2003-08-27T17:23:02Z")
I thought the 1.3 senior year GPA had been quoted from the article numerous times and that his graduating 3.5 was cumulative. **Nightime** , do you know this kid or something? Your ferocious defense of him is causing you to (seemingly) intentionally misread black and white accounts of his senior year performance. That’s what I meant by “how many people have corrected you about his GPA?”. _It’s stated in the article._ You don’t get a 1.3 senior year GPA by failing _one_ class. Maybe you shouldn’t have skipped so many classes your senior year, eh? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/250 "2003-08-27T17:27:54Z")
and **Nightime** colleges don’t just look at your cumulative. It’s the most important thing, sure, but they’re going to look at your _entire_ transcript. Kind of hard to miss the plunge from 3.8 to 1.3. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/251 "2003-08-27T20:32:46Z")
It says he started senior year with a 3.8, and ended with a 3.58. It is mathematically impossible to get a 1.3 senior year and only drop from 3.8 to 3.58. Unless… he took extra classes his first three years, and only took a few classes his last year. If that is the case, then I understand why he was not accepted. The article should have made it clear that he only took a few classes the last year, and saved me the mathematical embarassment. ---
**Author:** ![carimwc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac8455/32.png) [@carimwc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carimwc)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/252 "2003-08-27T20:53:10Z")
I’m think it was just the last semester. That makes more sense. Especially since UNC would most likely have seen first semester’s grades. With that, a 3.58 cum would be possible with a 1.3 the last semester. Even then, dropping him still makes sense. With a drop like that, even in the last semester, it’s too much to ignore. Way too much. That’s senior slump to the extreme. Schools still expect you to keep up your grades during the last semester. Going from all As and some Bs to Cs, Ds, and an F is not acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![vasyachkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c5a1d2/32.png) [@vasyachkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vasyachkin)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/253 "2003-08-28T11:39:48Z")
screw work. missing 18 days, so what ? this is a piece of sh1t UNI if you grade students based on effort rather than results. in my college you can cut all your classes, miss all your work, and as long as you ace the final you get an A. and thats how its supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![Hazen21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Hazen21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazen21)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/254 "2003-08-29T16:13:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*1600 on his SAT. 3.5 GPA. Guess they mean nothign to you guys. Tough standards, you betcha. > > What’s the point of even trying with people like you ready to knock a guy down on his first fuckup? > > Sorry, I’m with the kid on this one. His grades argue for a lot of work in high school, his SAT argues for hard work and great ability. You just have an excuse to shoot the guy down, so you’re doing it. \*\* I completely agree. Further, anyone here who infers things about this kid’s character or work ethic needs to learn that people are a little bit more complex than a one page newspaper article might suggest. Dragging him down and deriding him as selfish or stupid based on what you may have read is totally unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Hazen21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Hazen21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazen21)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/255 "2003-08-29T16:13:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*1600 on his SAT. 3.5 GPA. Guess they mean nothign to you guys. Tough standards, you betcha. > > What’s the point of even trying with people like you ready to knock a guy down on his first fuckup? > > Sorry, I’m with the kid on this one. His grades argue for a lot of work in high school, his SAT argues for hard work and great ability. You just have an excuse to shoot the guy down, so you’re doing it. \*\* I completely agree. Further, anyone here who infers things about this kid’s character or work ethic needs to learn that people are a little bit more complex than a one page newspaper article might suggest. Dragging him down and deriding him as selfish or stupid based on what you may have read is totally unreasonable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727.md?page=12)