# Having a 1600 on your SATs and a lawyer doesn't make you God. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 21, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727 "2003-08-21T17:35:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/61 "2003-08-22T18:50:49Z")
I bounced this story around the lunchroom and was reminded that my boss’s boss’s daughter had this same thing happen to her. She slacked off her senior year, and in July she got a letter from the U. She wrote a letter and then went in person. She took full responsibility for it, admitted she got senioritis and screwed up. She apologized, and begged them to give her a chance. She said that if they’d still permit her to come, she’d work hard and be the kind of student they were expecting. And they let her in. I don’t know what his reasons were or how he handled his own meeting. But I wonder. Maybe that’s all it would have taken from this kid: humility and accountability. I used to work in admissions, and you wouldn’t believe how refreshing honesty and forthrightness is. When someone had some weak grades in their past I was far, far more impressed with the kid who said “I fooled around and messed up, and it cost me; I’ve learned my lesson” than the kid who had a strong of excuses (even if some of the reasons sounded valid) for why she didn’t do well. I know there are many things that can interfere with a high-potential student’s learning and grades, and I’m not unsympathetic. But there are people who seem to jump on any excuse they can find, and it gets tiresome. As for those of you who think HS is a waste of time: well, yeah, I wasn’t stimulated every minute either. But I don’t think slacking off is a legitimate way to fix the problem. If you really think attending class is that goddamned detrimental to your education, than you ought to formally withdraw and develop a solid plan to be homeschooled and work towads a diploma or GED. Also realize that if you want a college education, you need to find one that will accept that philosophy and/or accept you based on your potential, not your high school performance. If you’re that damned brilliant, surely you can devise an effective plan to get yourself the education you deserve. It doesn’t seem that smart to me to just fail to meet expectations and then whine about how colleges just don’t understand how to measure you. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/62 "2003-08-22T18:54:33Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t see the point of mandatory attendance requirements. Schools are there to put information into minds. Nope. Students aren’t empty vessels. School is about interaction; that’s why we still _have_ schools instead of sitting students down at individual computers and giving them a CD-ROM with all they need to know. If a student isn’t there to debate public issues in civics class or participate in a writing workshop in English or present a skit in Spanish, he’s shortchanging his classmates as well as himself. BTW, while there are a number of colleges and universities in the US that don’t have mandatory attendance policies, UNC is not one of them. If this particular student is looking for an environment where he will be free to skip class, he should apply somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/63 "2003-08-22T19:04:15Z")
Incubus: I was under the impression that the SAT was a measure of one’s academic potential, not skill. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/64 "2003-08-22T19:12:56Z")
\<\\> Interesting. My younger son felt the same way during his junior year. Smart kid, bad grades. We talked to the HS counselor who recommended a GED. He got it, now in tech school, doing well. Hating high school is one thing, but, I’m sorry, being “disillusioned with the high school experience” = being a horse’s ass. BTW I had pretty good SAT’s, bad senior slump. Got a VERY DIRECT letter from the college where I had been accepted. I shaped right up, yessir. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/65 "2003-08-22T19:34:03Z")
No one’s arguing that he shouldn’t have attended classes. No one’s arguing that he shouldn’t have gotten As, because it could have been damn easy for him. He deserves the boot. As **seal\_clubber** and **Cranky** have put forth. But anyone who thinks high school is for the _interaction_ sure had a lot more fun than I did. I was picked on by my classmates, did not get along for my teachers, made unimpressive grades. You all might have had more pleasant, life-affirming experiences there, kudos! That does not mean everyone _does_ or _should_. To concede **Cranky’s** point > [@](#): > > If you’re that damned brilliant, surely you can devise an effective plan to get yourself the education you deserve. Damn straight. Keep your head down, suffer through, and make sure your pieces are in place to do what you really want. Jumping through hoops is a very effective means of getting what you want sometimes. Kid didn’t get the memo. ---
**Author:** ![mic84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@mic84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mic84)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/66 "2003-08-22T19:43:22Z")
If the posters who think that the guy’s attitude is a fault, I find the whole situation ridiculous. So, some official, after a (I guess) 5 minutes’ conversation decides that the guy is “snotty” and has no “work ethic”, and that’s why he can’t attend the college? _Someone_ thinks they’re God, all right. Anyway, high school is effectively a coercive institution, on evidence of colleges not willing to accept someone who doesn’t attend(and, having been to school, I dispute the idea that it’s about interaction etc. No, it isn’t. Not in my experience. And I’m doing all right in university, as I did in HS, thank you very much). You don’t get money for being there, and there’s a threat that if you quit, it’s hard to develop a good career. Would you expect a slave(not a perfect analogy, but you get the idea) to have a “work ethic”? That said, given that he applied to MIT also, he likely intended to major in science or engineering. Given that he had “difficulties with calculus”(and since that’s the only subject that’s mentioned in the news article, I bet that’s the “F”), he might not have been prepared for college, snotty or not. What woud save him, in this case, is not a heartfelt promise to improve his “work ethic”, but an explanation that he knows calculus, but had a headache every time he had to write a calculus test. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/67 "2003-08-22T19:57:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mic84 \* > \*\*If the posters who think that the guy’s attitude is a fault, I find the whole situation ridiculous. So, some official, after a (I guess) 5 minutes’ conversation decides that the guy is “snotty” and has no “work ethic”, and that’s why he can’t attend the college? _Someone_ thinks they’re God, all right. \*\* I don’t get that at all. It wasn’t his attitude, it was his NON-PERFORMANCE. His attitude wasn’t an issue ‘til he was called on it. If you’re too fuckin’ “disillusioned” to show up for class, fuck you. I’d rather his University slot went to a kid with average SAT scores but good grades achieved through hard work. Fuck being “disillusioned.” I get that way too, but there are bills to pay. I should try that on my boss - “I’m too disillusioned to make it in before 10:00.” ---
**Author:** ![mic84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@mic84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mic84)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/68 "2003-08-22T20:11:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by seal\_clubber \* > \*\*I don’t get that at all. It wasn’t his attitude, it was his NON-PERFORMANCE. His attitude wasn’t an issue ‘til he was called on it. If you’re too fuckin’ “disillusioned” to show up for class, fuck you. I’d rather his University slot went to a kid with average SAT scores but good grades achieved through hard work. > Fuck being “disillusioned.” I get that way too, but there are bills to pay. I should try that on my boss - “I’m too disillusioned to make it in before 10:00.” \*\* Yes. BUT, he was invited to talk to an admission officer, which implies that he _could_ have been admitted regardless of his poor performance. Some people were speculating that the reason he didn’t “pass” the interview was either a snotty attitude, or lack of regret that he has no “work ethic”. This was a respone to these posters. Judging by the first article cited, I wouldn’t say that this is an unreasonable speculation. ---
**Author:** ![mic84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@mic84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mic84)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/69 "2003-08-22T20:35:11Z")
Also, > [@](#): > > I’d rather his University slot went to a kid with average SAT scores but good grades achieved through hard work My impression is that the universities look at your intellectual potential rather than how hard you tried, hence the SATs. I understand the point that a student with good study habits is more likely to succeed in university. However, study habits is something that doesn’t require time to acquire. As opposed to ability to do well on SATs. > [@](#): > > Fuck being “disillusioned.” I get that way too, but there are bills to pay. I should try that on my boss - “I’m too disillusioned to make it in before 10:00.” You are paid money for showing up for work. A HS student who doesn’t like HS gets to play an involved and silly social game they’ve been playing for 12 years. And if they quit, there goes their career. Do you notice the difference? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/70 "2003-08-22T20:40:12Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Rysler_\* > I’m wasn’t a good student. I’m wasn’t a good essay writer or project speaker. Never did a lick of homework. But I learned the material and was a good TEST taker. That’s what works best with my brain. Why should I be punished for learning faster than other students and needing to put less effort into it? Being punished for being too smart just sucks. Why should a hard-working student who tests poorly be punished by a system that does not value hard work? Essay writing is a skill. As an educator, I don’t give a squat if you can regurgitate facts but can’t put them together in a cogent argument. Public speaking is also a skill. You can be the most brilliant person in the world but if you can’t convey ideas articulately, then no one cares how much you know. I don’t think a fast learner is someone who doesn’t need to do homework (so humble yourself a little). There are skills learned by doing homework (like essay writing) that are independent of the material itself. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/71 "2003-08-22T20:54:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mic84 \* > \*\*Yes. BUT, he was invited to talk to an admission officer, which implies that he _could_ have been admitted regardless of his poor performance. Some people were speculating that the reason he didn’t “pass” the interview was either a snotty attitude, or lack of regret that he has no “work ethic”. This was a respone to these posters. Judging by the first article cited, I wouldn’t say that this is an unreasonable speculation. \*\* Speculated…in any event, he first got into trouble for being a fuckoff. If he hadn’t been, he would have been safely in college before they discovered his true nature. > [@](#): > > \*A HS student who doesn’t like HS gets to play an involved and silly social game they’ve been playing for 12 years. And if they quit, there goes their career. Do you notice the difference? \*\* Haha, I get it, sarcasm. If you can’t be bothered to put up with the bullshit in school, you might have real trouble with real-world bullshit. If this kid doesn’t get into college, maybe he wll have discovered a valuable lesson. I always told my kids school was their job. The sooner they realize being “disillusioned” was no excuse for substandard performance, the more ready they were for real life. Note my earlier post - my son hated HS. It was tough on him. Now he’s on his way, a lot faster than he might have been, to the real world. Maybe he’ll wish he had studied more. Maybe he’ll go to college later when he’s more motivated. Either way, he’s not going to try to sue his way into the life he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/72 "2003-08-22T21:07:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by seal\_clubber \* > \*\*Fuck being “disillusioned.” I get that way too, but there are bills to pay. I should try that on my boss - “I’m too disillusioned to make it in before 10:00.” \*\* _Alienation’s for the rich and I’m gettin’ poorer every day Uh hey hey hey_ -They Might Be Giants I feel sorry for the kid, in a “There but for the grace of God went I” way. High school suh-hucked; although I had a few good teachers, I had a few eygogglingly bad teachers as well, and a mass of mediocre brokenspirited teachers who were putting in time every bit as much as I was. I slogged through the tedium only through sheer inertia, occasionally intimidating teachers into giving me good grades – not by threatening them, but by dressing scary, having a strong personality, being more eloquent than them, and demonstrating that I had a better grasp on the subject than any other student in the class. Had things gone differently, I easily might have dropped out of school, might have decided there were more important things in life than demonstrating that I was a good little trained monkey. That said, the kid has options. He can probably audit classes – UNC is pretty good about allowing that, isn’t it? He can work on starting his company. He can take a couple years off and work shitty dead-end jobs, to gain some real-world experience, and reapply to college in a couple of years. Suing the school doesn’t seem like the right response to me. I wish him the best, and hope that he’s able to find an educational path that stimulates and involves him. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![mic84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@mic84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mic84)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/73 "2003-08-22T21:28:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by seal\_clubber \* > Speculated…in any event, he first got into trouble for being a fuckoff. If he hadn’t been, he would have been safely in college before they discovered his true nature. I don’t think anyone would dispute this. > [@](#): > > Haha, I get it, sarcasm. > If you can’t be bothered to put up with the bullshit in school, you might have real trouble with real-world bullshit. Probably. However, in my experience, you have to put up with much _less_ bullshit in college. Then again, in my university, the only mandatory attendance is for tests and exams, the dates for which are announced at the beginning of the term. > [@](#): > > If this kid doesn’t get into college, maybe he wll have discovered a valuable lesson. Yeah, maybe. The admission office isn’t there to teach a random,(almost) adult applicant, a valuable lesson. > [@](#): > > I always told my kids school was their job. The sooner they realize being “disillusioned” was no excuse for substandard performance, the more ready they were for real life. I guess you’re right. However, I think that school should be more than social conditioning. > [@](#): > > Note my earlier post - my son hated HS. It was tough on him. Now he’s on his way, a lot faster than he might have been, to the real world. Maybe he’ll wish he had studied more. Maybe he’ll go to college later when he’s more motivated. Either way, he’s not going to try to sue his way into the life he wants. College is an opportunity to learn, it’s not a career milestone. At any event, that’s what the admission office should think, IMO. The guy was denied the opportunity to learn. It shouldn’t be an issue of “the life he wants”, as far as admission is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/74 "2003-08-22T22:22:00Z")
mic84: Post-secondary institutions look at _both_ your potential _and_ your performance. The fact that someone has managed to get an impressive score on the SAT is merely _one_ factor in the “who shall be admitted” equation. The individual concerned in the OP has shown that his performance is lacking. Think about a class in which the students must partner up for an assignment. What’s going to happen to the other student when this individual decides at the last moment that the assignment’s too hard or he’s not interested in doing the assignment or he “has better things to do” than his school _work_. Your assertion that study habits don’t require time to acquire is, to be blunt, ludicrous. Just as any habit, especially one that takes time away from the “fun stuff” in life, studying requires discipline. The student at issue here obviously had some good study habits; however, he jettisoned them at an inopportune time. The consequences of that lack of self-discipline will do him well in the work-a-day world, provided he actually learned something from it. One guess how I think he should be assisted in learning a lesson from his: [list=1][li] **Failure** to complete assigned work[/li][li] **Failure** to appear at his appointed place[/li][li] **Failure** to learn required material[/li][li] **Failure** to follow the institutional policies known to him in advance[/list=1][/li] The common word in this description of that student’s (lack of) performance is **failure**. The school to which he had been admitted, no doubt, had already informed him that his admission was contingent upon him maintaining a certain academic standard. He was a **failure** at that. The school did the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/75 "2003-08-22T22:33:17Z")
p.s. My university has classes taught by instructors. So far, all of my instructors have based a portion of the grade on attendance and participation. p.p.s. University most certainly should be a career milestone. This milestone is the one in which you gain the basic knowledge for your chosen profession, in addition to being presented with other information to gain a rounded out education. University is not a place to mark time and get a diploma without working for it. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/76 "2003-08-22T23:41:43Z")
Basic knowledge for your chosen profession? How many people actually go in to the field they majored in in school? I’d bet it’s a minority. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/77 "2003-08-22T23:50:11Z")
Oh please… yeah this kid is “evil” and showed his “true nature” because instead of going to a hostile and pointless place every day his senior year, he tried to start a software company. I guess I’m even more evil, because I skipped more days than he did. Luckily my teachers did not grade based on attendance. So that makes it not evil? I’m not even arguing that the school should be required to let him in. But letting him in would be the right thing to do. Put him on academic probation if necessary - at least give him a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/78 "2003-08-23T00:13:09Z")
GM: Are you unaware of what the term “chosen” means? It means that which you choose. For example, at the moment I’m majoring in Linguistics and that is the profession in which I intend to labor. And so why’d you just flat out ignore the rest of that posting? Nightime: He had a chance. He blew it. ---
**Author:** ![lokij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@lokij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokij)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/79 "2003-08-23T00:14:10Z")
I personally wonder what would have happened if this guy had decided in his junior or sophomore year that he was done with high school, dropped out and took the GED. He then spends the next year or so trying to start up his software company and in the process takes and aces the SAT. He applies to UNC. I bet you nearly anything they would have accepted him. A good work ethic is Very important, but I always was taught to work smarter… not necessarily harder. I dunno… he’s a dumbass for slacking off in the home stretch, but I was similar in some ways in high school. It’s very very hard to do what you think is pointless time consuming busywork every day and sit in class (and try to look interested) when you have long since grasped all of the concepts (sometimes long ago on your own study). If you add in other factors such as oh, I don’t know… how wonderful the average high school treats the kind of student who can score a perfect SAT you might think about skipping a dozen or so days of class yourself. ---
**Author:** ![mic84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@mic84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mic84)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727/80 "2003-08-23T00:28:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > mic84: Post-secondary institutions look at _both_ your potential _and_ your performance. The fact that someone has managed to get an impressive score on the SAT is merely _one_ factor in the “who shall be admitted” equation. By potential I mean the potential to actually learn something while in the university. Of course, high school performance is a good tool to estimate this. The contempt for HS “work” or lack thereof isn’t. > [@](#): > > The individual concerned in the OP has shown that his performance is lacking. Think about a class in which the students must partner up for an assignment. What’s going to happen to the other student when this individual decides at the last moment that the assignment’s too hard or he’s not interested in doing the assignment or he “has better things to do” than his school _work_. Generally, if people are paired up, partners feel some obligation to do the work. Anyhow, If he’s interested in the school _work_, he’ll do well. If not, he won’t. If he’s not interested but still “works hard”, he’ll pass, but will hardly learn anything. In my experience. The school, I think, should assume that all their assignments are interesting. That’s what it probably says in their brochures. > [@](#): > > Your assertion that study habits don’t require time to acquire is, to be blunt, ludicrous. Just as any habit, especially one that takes time away from the “fun stuff” in life, studying requires discipline. As does brushing your teeth twice a day. What I meant is, you can decide that you do have this habit, and start behaving accordingly. Takes a few seconds. > [@](#): > > The student at issue here obviously had some good study habits; however, he jettisoned them at an inopportune time. The consequences of that lack of self-discipline will do him well in the work-a-day world, provided he actually learned something from it. That’s irrelevant. > [@](#): > > One guess how I think he should be assisted in learning a lesson from his: > [list=1][li] **Failure** to complete assigned work[/li][li] **Failure** to appear at his appointed place[/li][li] **Failure** to learn required material[/li][li] **Failure** to follow the institutional policies known to him in advance[/list=1][/li] > The common word in this description of that student’s (lack of) performance is **failure**. The school to which he had been admitted, no doubt, had already informed him that his admission was contingent upon him maintaining a certain academic standard. He was a **failure** at that. > > The school did the right thing. Depends. What was their goal? To teach him a lesson? Then maybe. If their goal was to increase the intellectual abilities of the citizens of NC(and he didn’t fail calculus while intending to do a technical major), they did the wrong thing. Sure, he failed. If it didn’t affect his ability to learn in the university, so what? That is not to say that the school didn’t have the right to withdraw the offer - he did fail to do what he was told. The lawsuit looks frivolous. > [@](#): > > p.p.s. University most certainly should be a career milestone. This milestone is the one in which you gain the basic knowledge for your chosen profession, in addition to being presented with other information to gain a rounded out education. University is not a place to mark time and get a diploma without working for it. By “university is not a career milestone” I meant that the purpose of a university in this context is teaching, not training individuals to cope with the real world[sup]tm[/sup], and hence admissions should be based on skills needed in the real world[sup]tm[/sup] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-a-1600-on-your-sats-and-a-lawyer-doesnt-make-you-god/196727.md?page=5)