# Having kids vs having no kids: who is the happiest **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 16, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450 "2014-12-16T23:20:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/41 "2014-12-17T22:04:30Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > But so what? Why would or should anyone care what OTHER people say makes THEM happy? > > Even if stats showed that married people as a whole are happier than single people, that’s no reason for any indvidual to get married. The people at Freakanomics did a podcast on why we marry and while talking to an economist, Justin Wolfers, he posited an alternate explanation for findings that married people are happier. Basically that there is a selection bias inherent to marriage - married people may be happier because happy, non-grumpy, conscientious people may be more likely to decide to marry each other. Likewise the unmarried may be unhappier because they’re grumpy selfish people nobody wants to marry. I thought it was a novel interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/42 "2014-12-17T22:07:07Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t think **Anaamika** is saying that society’s constant pushing of love, love, love is not a reflection of a genuine need for love, love, love. > > But it’s just like anything. What you see and hear can influence how you feel, what you desire. If everyone around you is eating, you’re going to be aware of your own empty stomach and want to join in. Everyone’s driving a nice car and living in a nice house? You’re going to be reminded of your bus pass and your crappy apartment. Everyone’s got a guy or a gal on their arm and pictures of children in their wallet? You’re going to think about your singlehood and childlessness. And perhaps feel like something is wrong with your life. > > But in a different world, one where the vast majority of people are NOT romantically involved, a single person probably would have a higher level of satisfaction with their life. I think most people can cope with not getting everything they want in life. But if an unattainable object is being constantly rubbed in one’s face, an individual can’t help but to feel some unhappiness. Well, I don’t think too many people would be sitting around fretting about the scourge of toenail fungus without marketing. But if anything is influenced by our evolutionary history, it is our mating habits. Being interested in reproducing is kind of evolutionarily advantageous, after all, though because of our diversity I definitely accept that some people are not. And evolutionarily advantageous does not equal good, just to be clear. Love poetry long predates romance novels and meet cute movies. A world where most people are not romantically involved is imaginable, but it is not our world. Doesn’t unhappiness about not being involved come from frustration at not getting something you want? Why wouldn’t someone who honestly is not interested not be happy? I’m not at all interested in owning luxury cars. Ads for them don’t make me unhappy that I don’t own one. If I desperately wanted one, and couldn’t afford it, they might. All of us easily resist pressure to get stuff we don’t really like. I’m not buying that someone, upon seeing an attractive person of the appropriate sex, will wake up and think - gee, I’m horny! Might make a level of unhappiness greater, but for the most part we’re pretty wired for it. Kind of comes with sexual preferences being prewired and not too driven by society also… ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/43 "2014-12-17T22:14:47Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Since you do all that it sounds your husband just gets home from work and sits on his ass the rest of the time. I’d divorce his lazy ass. Then If end up with ALL the housework! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/44 "2014-12-17T22:18:32Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Well, she works 40+ hours too. If she doesn’t get “me” time, or very little, he should get/not get the same damn thing. **even sven** ’s post is exactly what I didn’t want: to be a married single mom with a “good guy” who thinks he does half because he takes out the trash twice a week and maybe loads the dishwasher sometimes. Oh, and he mows the lawn every couple weeks. > > When they \*both \*work, they \*both \*get to come home after a long 8-9 hour grind and are confronted with Home Life. Don’t project your dissatisfaction on **even sven** ’s post. She’s talking about having 3-4 hours worth of chores and childcare after her long grind of a day and you’re asking about _her husband_’s me time? Are you fucking kidding me? The scenario from the article has the woman working part time. I bet the happiness ain’t up there if both are working full time. The man working part time and taking care of the home might be pretty close in terms of happiness. In any case the childcare part of it might seem to take forever but is really a small part of ones life. Before you know it you can make them clean the damn toilets. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/45 "2014-12-17T22:22:15Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Then If end up with ALL the housework! But why is the “solution” for men to do a lot more housework? Why can’t the solution be for the wife to do a lot less? To use one frivolous example, suppose stats showed that, in the average household, the wife makes the bed 298 days a year and the husband makes the bed 22 times a year. To you, the question is “How do we get the man to make the bed 182.5 days a year.” To me, the question is, “If we’re not having company, why make the bed at all? When I was single, I hardly ever made my bed, because I figured I was just gonna mess it up when I went to sleep that night!” A lot of women do a lot of housework that men don’t think needs to be done in the first place! ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/46 "2014-12-17T22:40:44Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > But why is the “solution” for men to do a lot more housework? Why can’t the solution be for the wife to do a lot less? > > To use one frivolous example, suppose stats showed that, in the average household, the wife makes the bed 298 days a year and the husband makes the bed 22 times a year. To you, the question is “How do we get the man to make the bed 182.5 days a year.” To me, the question is, “If we’re not having company, why make the bed at all? When I was single, I hardly ever made my bed, because I figured I was just gonna mess it up when I went to sleep that night!” > > A lot of women do a lot of housework that men don’t think needs to be done in the first place! I’ve never met a woman who complained about having to spend 90 seconds making a bed so it wouldn’t look like shit all day long. Calling it a frivolous example is quite the understatement. It would also probably only save her 4 hours a year, spread out over the entire year. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/47 "2014-12-17T22:48:22Z")
Being a lifelong bachelor will be wonderful. Assuming, of course, that when I get old, I am rich enough to afford a good nursing home. I don’t think I am going to be that rich. Small children can be a hassle. Adult children can be useful. In my opinion, elderly people with large families tend to eat better than elderly people with no families. There is not a nursing home on earth that will take care of you as well as your own flesh and blood. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/48 "2014-12-17T22:56:11Z")
Which is the cause and which is the effect, if we go with it being true? People predisposed to be unhappy are more likely to think “I would never bring someone else into this shit hole world”. ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/49 "2014-12-17T23:05:25Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Being a lifelong bachelor will be wonderful. Assuming, of course, that when I get old, I am rich enough to afford a good nursing home. > > I don’t think I am going to be that rich. > > Small children can be a hassle. Adult children can be useful. > > In my opinion, elderly people with large families tend to eat better than elderly people with no families. There is not a nursing home on earth that will take care of you as well as your own flesh and blood. Sorry, but . . . no. Of all the reasons in the world to have children, “so they can take care of me when I start needing diapers” has to be the worst. If you see the first 18 years as payment in advance, please don’t reproduce. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/50 "2014-12-18T00:40:05Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > In my opinion, elderly people with large families tend to eat better than elderly people with no families. There is not a nursing home on earth that will take care of you as well as your own flesh and blood. You’re assuming that adult kids will live with their parents when those parents are old and decrepit. Not just in the same city or neighborhood, but in the same household. That’s awfully rare. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/51 "2014-12-18T01:34:35Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > There have been fundamental changes in our modern lives over the last few generations that have eliminated the extended family. Interestingly, these extended family members frequently don’t exist. They were never born. I’m not saying this is a bad thing, but we have to acknowledge it and adjust! > [@](#): > > There is a sweet spot after the little darlings quit shitting their pants and before they realize that you are the stupidest person on the planet, ( **they grow out of that too** ), that is a very fun and emotionally rewarding time. Not necessarily. > [@even\_sven](#): > > Well, that’s nice. > > I’d venture in most families with kids where one member is a successful upper-level manager and the other partner is a part-time worker, that part-time worker does most of the housekeeping. And that is a pretty cushy place to be for the primary earner. > > I leave work (which I love) every day and come home to feed the baby, bathe the baby, dress the baby for bed, read a couple stories, give the evening bottle, and get the baby to sleep, and the wash the baby’s bottles- a set of tasks that require my full engagement until around 9:00 PM. Then I get to worry about cooking, shopping, dealing with bills, laundry, and keeping down the level of filth and chaos. My husband truly believes he does half the work, but he doesn’t. I love spending time with the baby, of course, but my “me time” is measured in 10 minute intervals, not hours or days. > > People who manage to get the joy of a family AND the satisfaction of work without the endless freaking grind of household chores have a hell of a lot to be happy about. I’m not surprised those people keep telling us we don’t need feminism. I’m so glad I found a doctor willing to sterilize me. This is horrifying… to me, anyway. I don’t intend any offense. > [@mbh](#): > > Being a lifelong bachelor will be wonderful. Assuming, of course, that when I get old, I am rich enough to afford a good nursing home. > > I don’t think I am going to be that rich. > > Small children can be a hassle. Adult children can be useful. > > In my opinion, elderly people with large families tend to eat better than elderly people with no families. There is not a nursing home on earth that will take care of you as well as your own flesh and blood. Why do you want to live that long? If I can’t live like a man, I will at least die like one. > [@wolfman](#): > > Which is the cause and which is the effect, if we go with it being true? > People predisposed to be unhappy are more likely to think “ **I would never bring someone else into this shit hole world** ”. That too. > [@Octarine](#): > > Sorry, but . . . no. Of all the reasons in the world to have children, “so they can take care of me when I start needing diapers” has to be the worst. If you see the first 18 years as payment in advance, please don’t reproduce. Yes, thank you. Nobody asks to be born. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/52 "2014-12-18T02:40:36Z")
I’m married, no kids and we use all the money we save to pay a housekeeper to do 100% of the house work. I like to cook, so I cook. When I’m tired of cooking, we go out. We’re pretty happy, just one data point. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/53 "2014-12-18T12:06:14Z")
For obvious reasons, being an unhappy parent who regrets having kids and doesn’t hide this regret very well is more problematic than being unhappy and childless. So if having more of the latter in our society comes with having less of the former, I think that’s okay. People are having kids later in life than they used to, [often without being married first](http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/zoey-dimauro/johns-hopkins-57-percent-children-born-millennials-are-out-wedlock). I suspect economics are driving this trend more than anything cultural, but I think it does reflect a change in our attitudes regarding relationships and parenthood. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/54 "2014-12-18T14:04:29Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The scenario from the article has the woman working part time. I bet the happiness ain’t up there if both are working full time. The man working part time and taking care of the home might be pretty close in terms of happiness. > In any case the childcare part of it might seem to take forever but is really a small part of ones life. Before you know it you can make them clean the damn toilets. My post was specifically meant to address the circumstances that _snowthx_ and **even sven** brought up, not the circumstances in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/55 "2014-12-18T14:25:19Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Exactly. > > But I disagree that emotions are a choice. I think our emotions are very much influenced by our environment and the messages we hear on a regular basis. Why wouldn’t a person who is told over and over that their lifestyle MUST be pathological, miserable, dysfunctional, or suboptimal not internalize negative feelings about themselves, at least a little bit. A fat person who feels sad in response to the anti-fat bias around them hasn’t made a choice to feel sad. The same for the gay person, the stigmitized ethnic minority, the poor person, or the single/childless person. Being “abnormal” shapes a person’s personality and their outlook, even if the thing that makes them abnormal doesn’t bother them. Sorry…I didn’t mean to imply that ALL emotions are a choice, by any means. I’m not sure how to put this, exactly…there comes a point where they are a choice, I guess. We all internalize negative feelings to some degree, and we can’t control how we react to them 100%, but we can get some degree of control over it. I hope that’s a little clearer. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/56 "2014-12-18T14:39:56Z")
I have kids, I love my kids, I would never wish them gone…but. They’re in their early 20’s now, have their own lives and while we keep in touch I’m rarely in a parenting position with them, it’s more like talking to friends who I really really love. And it’s awesome. My husband and I have time alone, we do more stuff with friends, we have free time and occasionally spare money. Knowing my kids as actual people I couldn’t imagine not having them but knowing all of this I can’t blame anyone for not wanting kids. It would have been awesome living my whole life this way. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/57 "2014-12-18T14:47:32Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Well, that’s nice… > > I love spending time with the baby, of course, but my “me time” is measured in 10 minute intervals, not hours or days. Well, while I have a LOT more ‘me’ time than you. I do want to say, that about half of it is spent cleaning the kitchen, cooking, home repairs and such. I guess I consider that me time too. While I truly love my wife. I need time to myself. Just being alone. Crank the stereo, watch something dumb on TV. Play banjo. Or maybe clean and cook. I can’t imagine having a baby. I’d go nuts. The dogs are just enough. ---
**Author:** ![Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fool_in_the_Rain)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/58 "2014-12-18T15:15:25Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > I have kids, I love my kids, I would never wish them gone…but. > > They’re in their early 20’s now, have their own lives and while we keep in touch I’m rarely in a parenting position with them, it’s more like talking to friends who I really really love. > > And it’s awesome. My husband and I have time alone, we do more stuff with friends, we have free time and occasionally spare money. > > Knowing my kids as actual people I couldn’t imagine not having them but knowing all of this I can’t blame anyone for not wanting kids. It would have been awesome living my whole life this way. Agreed. Anecdotal - My daughter is 22 now, in college, working part time, and has her life going on with friends. She lives at home and I see her most days, but not everyday. She is self-sufficient (outside of major needs - roof and car), and is in a very good place in life right now. I loved raising her. It was more fun being with her than work was by far. We squeezed in friends here and there, but not much. Sacrifices were made, but every moment with my daughter was and is precious. I’m now divorced from her mother, and currently dating a wonderful woman (actually engaged now), and enjoying life anew and thoroughly enjoying my daughter’s successes. I’m happy now, as I was happy with raising a child. Both aspects have challenges and sacrifices. I regret none of it. I think it is more the individual person, than anything else. I have friends perfectly happy with kids, and another is not happy with her situation. Same is true with friends without kids. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/59 "2014-12-18T15:18:04Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Why do you want to live that long? If I can’t live like a man, I will at least die like one. So you say, now. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/60 "2014-12-18T15:28:24Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > I’ve never met a woman who complained about having to spend 90 seconds making a bed so it wouldn’t look like shit all day long. Calling it a frivolous example is quite the understatement. It would also probably only save her 4 hours a year, spread out over the entire year. I used one handy example. If you don’t like that one, I can find others. Point is, many men would say, “Who CARES if the unmade bed looks “like shit”? We’ll be at work all day. NOBODY is going to see it! Heck, close the bedroom door and WE won’t have to see it!” If a woman says, “It’s not fair that I’m the one who aways makes the bed,” Her husband can say, “You DON’T have to make it. Leave it. It’s not important to me at all. If it IS important to you, then YOU do it.” The same is true for many household tasks. Most men don’t feel a great need to live in Martha Stewart’s house. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450.md?page=4)