# Having kids vs having no kids: who is the happiest **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 16, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450 "2014-12-16T23:20:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/81 "2014-12-18T22:34:24Z")
Nobody, not nobody, has ever accused me of being too fastidious about housework. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/82 "2014-12-18T23:15:38Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I have to admit. This sounded reasonable the first time I read it since no one would ever confuse me with Martha Stewart. > > But upon further thought, it also sounds like an excuse to be lazy and hands-off as a parent. > > “I don’t care about eating fruits and vegetables! If you want to eat them, fine. But don’t expect me to chop them up for you. And don’t expect me to make the kids eat them either.” > > “If you don’t want to let the baby cry it out, YOU pick her up. Don’t expect me to do it, because I don’t care.” > > “I don’t mind if we have rats and mice in the house. If they freak you out, YOU set the traps. I’ll be over here playing video games, ignoring both the crying baby and my vegetables.” > > Most women don’t want a Martha Stewart house either. But making the bed every morning is not “Martha Stewart”. One of these things is not like the others. The bed will neither cry, nor get sick, nor get cranky if you don’t make it. Taking care of pets is the same thing as taking care of children = something innocent suffers if you don’t do it. Not an issue for us. First, making the bed takes ten seconds if that. Second, my wife is usually still in it when I leave. Her commute is 20 feet. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/83 "2014-12-19T00:20:39Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I have to admit. This sounded reasonable the first time I read it since no one would ever confuse me with Martha Stewart. > > But upon further thought, it also sounds like an excuse to be lazy and hands-off as a parent. > > “I don’t care about eating fruits and vegetables! If you want to eat them, fine. But don’t expect me to chop them up for you. And don’t expect me to make the kids eat them either.” > > “If you don’t want to let the baby cry it out, YOU pick her up. Don’t expect me to do it, because I don’t care.” > > “I don’t mind if we have rats and mice in the house. If they freak you out, YOU set the traps. I’ll be over here playing video games, ignoring both the crying baby and my vegetables.” > > Most women don’t want a Martha Stewart house either. But making the bed every morning is not “Martha Stewart”. Or if someone decides to avoid household and parenting responsibilities by just plain old not coming home at all. Whether it’s multiple jobs, or community service, or viewing the other parent as a live-in babysitter - sorry, folks, very few people are going to put up with that nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/84 "2014-12-19T16:22:25Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > NOT ONCE has a divorced woman told me that single parenting is harder. NEVER. 100% of them have said that raising children is much, much easier with no husband. Does that mean that single, divorced mothers are happier than married mothers? What about single never-divorced mothers? Maybe in between since they don’t know how bad it really could be if they had a husband? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/85 "2014-12-19T17:10:02Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > NOT ONCE has a divorced woman told me that single parenting is harder. NEVER. 100% of them have said that raising children is much, much easier with no husband. Well, I’d wager that, at least in those cases in which it was the woman who started proceedings, realizing that they had one more child than they’d given birth to was part of the reason they’re divorced. I’ve met several guys who were separated or divorced and who didn’t know why. The request to leave the house had “come out of the blue”. None of them could prepare breakfast unless someone else had laid out a buffet: the idea of buying milk, cereals and maybe even some cold cuts was just incomprehensible. For the separated ones, their wives still did their laundry and still helped them buy clothes. They were good at bringing a salary in, but that was it. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/86 "2014-12-19T20:01:05Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Well, I’d wager that, at least in those cases in which it was the woman who started proceedings, realizing that they had one more child than they’d given birth to was part of the reason they’re divorced. > > I’ve met several guys who were separated or divorced and who didn’t know why. The request to leave the house had “come out of the blue”. None of them could prepare breakfast unless someone else had laid out a buffet: the idea of buying milk, cereals and maybe even some cold cuts was just incomprehensible. For the separated ones, their wives still did their laundry and still helped them buy clothes. They were good at bringing a salary in, but that was it. It boggles my mind that women have planned children, and often more than one, with guys like this, too. Just curious: how many of those men also tried to get primary custody? :smack: One thing I’ve always been told is, “If a man tells you that he didn’t see his divorce coming, especially if children are/were involved, RUN!” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/87 "2014-12-19T20:26:48Z")
Why is it always assumed that the husband is the slob? I routinely tell my wife if she doesn’t straighten up and throw some of her crap away, I’m going to divorce her and keep 10% of our stuff. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Or if someone decides to avoid household and parenting responsibilities by just plain old not coming home at all. Whether it’s multiple jobs, or community service, or viewing the other parent as a live-in babysitter - sorry, folks, very few people are going to put up with that nowadays. Yeah, nothing I love better than avoiding my wife and kids by going to a second job or volunteering down at the local soup kitchen.:rolleyes: Generally what leads to divorce is avoiding the wife and kids by constantly going down to the bar or “staying late at work” to bang some girl in the city. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/88 "2014-12-19T20:59:57Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Why is it always assumed that the husband is the slob? I routinely tell my wife if she doesn’t straighten up and throw some of her crap away, I’m going to divorce her and keep 10% of our stuff. > > Yeah, nothing I love better than avoiding my wife and kids by going to a second job or volunteering down at the local soup kitchen.:rolleyes: > > Generally what leads to divorce is avoiding the wife and kids by constantly going down to the bar or “staying late at work” to bang some girl in the city. Hasn’t it been true for quite some time (and this is not strictly tied to divorces) that it’s common for people (presumably men and women both, though I think I read about it pertaining more to women) to realize that they’d rather stay at the office, or do something else, as it’s far less tedious and trying than their home lives? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/89 "2014-12-19T21:24:41Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yeah, nothing I love better than avoiding my wife and kids by going to a second job or volunteering down at the local soup kitchen.:rolleyes: > > Generally what leads to divorce is avoiding the wife and kids by constantly going down to the bar or “staying late at work” to bang some girl in the city. There’s nothing wrong with someone taking a second job if the family needs the money, and volunteering is great when it’s done for the right reasons. And I’ll admit that some women do run their husbands off in various ways too. Let’s face it, women also cheat as much as men. Who do you think most of those men are cheating WITH in the first place. :dubious: And an addendum to the deal breaker post above: More than once, I met some woman and thought, “What if I meet the perfect man, and his ex is someone like this?” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/90 "2014-12-20T00:01:33Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Hasn’t it been true for quite some time (and this is not strictly tied to divorces) that it’s common for people (presumably men and women both, though I think I read about it pertaining more to women) to realize that they’d rather stay at the office, or do something else, as it’s far less tedious and trying than their home lives? In some places there are a lot of single people whose social life is work, so staying at work forever is not a problem. Married people in this environment can feel pressure to stay also. I worked in a place like this once. My staying away from home had nothing to do with banging anyone except my head against the wall. ---
**Author:** ![sunstone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunstone/32/3372_2.png) [@sunstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunstone)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/91 "2014-12-21T16:36:19Z")
One of my sons is married, and both he and his wife work part time. As far as I can tell, he actually does more than 50% of the physical part child rearing and housework - although the children do part of it too. And his wife does her part - each seems to be best at part of the whole picture. They seem to be happy. My other son and his wife both work. They both cook. They split the household/garden/mechanical chores up. Each has their own interests and ways of spending excess money. They seem to be happy. When we had young kids at home, my wife did the greater part of the household chores and worked about 20 hrs/week. I worked about 55 hrs/week, and did the heavy chores (20% more or less) and cared for the kids after unwinding for a few minutes prior to dinner. Then I put them to bed. As they got older, they required less care, but my input increased (teenage boys and father stuff) Now that I am retired, we both seem to do whatever needs doing, regardless of who/what. Well, except for the laundry - I seem to remember doing a load of washing that came out all pink that one time… There are no rules except to be good partners. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/92 "2014-12-21T19:01:29Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > It boggles my mind that women have planned children, and often more than one, with guys like this, too. Just curious: how many of those men also tried to get primary custody? Not one, but take into account that the kind of jobs they had would have been incompatible with being a single parent - well, at least at the “spend every working week abroad” level. It is compatible if you’re willing and able to say “no, I’m only taking projects within X minutes of my house”, something which our society accepts better from women. One of them, separated with no intent to divorce (very common in Spain if there is no hate and no third person), talked with his wife and sons every night. One week in which he was going to get the kids for the weekend, they floored him by asking whether they could have breakfast in the house if they brought corn flakes and milk. They were 9 and 11. And hey, it’s called being in love… I was in love for a while with a guy so stupid his head should have been shaped like a champagne cork, but I didn’t realize it until I did. Smoke gets in your eyes and all that. Happens to guys too, having kids with a woman that at one point they realize has the maturity of boiled cabbage. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/93 "2014-12-21T19:17:35Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Not one, but take into account that the kind of jobs they had would have been incompatible with being a single parent - well, at least at the “spend every working week abroad” level. It is compatible if you’re willing and able to say “no, I’m only taking projects within X minutes of my house”, something which our society accepts better from women. > > One of them, separated with no intent to divorce (very common in Spain if there is no hate and no third person), talked with his wife and sons every night. One week in which he was going to get the kids for the weekend, they floored him by asking whether they could have breakfast in the house if they brought corn flakes and milk. They were 9 and 11. > > And hey, it’s called being in love… I was in love for a while with a guy so stupid his head should have been shaped like a champagne cork, but I didn’t realize it until I did. Smoke gets in your eyes and all that. Happens to guys too, having kids with a woman that at one point they realize has the maturity of boiled cabbage. I was coming from the angle of the man who doesn’t eat unless someone else cooks for him, or (example from another website) a woman who comes home from a social evening to find the house looking like it was ransacked, and I don’t mean he left his socks on the floor. We’re talking about drawers opened and the contents dumped all over the room, that kind of thing. This woman would post this, and her next post would be about how they were going to consult a fertility doctor if she wasn’t pregnant by date X. I did not hesitate to say, “Why do you want to bring a child into a relationship with a man like this?” Don’t recall the answer. ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/94 "2014-12-22T15:57:44Z")
In the UK, research suggested that childless couples were more satisfied with their relationship than couples with children, but children were beneficial to women’s overall happiness. Of course, can one accurately judge one’s own happiness? Can we be honest about our happiness to outsiders? [QUOTE=Guardian online] Enduring Love? Couple Relationships in the 21st Century is a comprehensive survey of the relationships of 5,000 British people. The study found that **childless men and women were more satisfied with their relationships than those who had children**. Non-heterosexual participants were more positive about their relationship than those in heterosexual couples. \*\*Although mothers were fairly negative about their relationships, they reported feeling happier with their lives overall \*\*than any other demographic. Fathers are as happy as childless men about life. [/QUOTE] Bolding mine. [Source](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/13/secret-happy-relationship-no-children). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/95 "2014-12-31T13:39:56Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > NOT ONCE has a divorced woman told me that single parenting is harder. NEVER. 100% of them have said that raising children is much, much easier with no husband. Missed this earlier. > [@](#): > > A [November 2012 Pew Research survey](http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/03/14/modern-parenthood-roles-of-moms-and-dads-converge-as-they-balance-work-and-family/) found that among married adults, 36% of those with children and 39% of those with no children were “very happy” with their life. By contrast, 23% of non-married adults with children and 22% of non-married childless adults said they were very happy. Single parents were more likely than any other group to say they were “not too happy” with their life (25%). Your anecdotal experience does not agree with more systematically collected data. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/96 "2014-12-31T14:10:06Z")
^Not that I agree with **nearwildheaven** , but “not too happy” isn’t synonymous with “single parenting is harder”. Single parents could be unhappy for any number of reasons, like getting laid less. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/97 "2014-12-31T15:31:58Z")
Then why are they less happy than single adults without children? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/98 "2014-12-31T17:33:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Then why are they less happy than single adults without children? > > Regards, > Shodan Even the anecdotal evidence is suspect. The set of women saying raising children is easier with no husband clearly had husbands and now don’t for some reason. Let’s be charitable and say it was all the man’s fault. I can see no husband would be easier than a husband who caused work and refused to help. But that is not comparable with the ease of child rearing in a happier more equitable family. You’d really have to use widows as your source of comparison. The one I knew said she had a far harder time raising their kids after her husband died. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/99 "2014-12-31T19:32:39Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You’d really have to use widows as your source of comparison. The one I knew said she had a far harder time raising their kids after her husband died. I’ve DEFINITELY never had a widow(er) tell me that single parenting is easier. Some people also think they’re riding a financial gravy train, with life insurance, Social Security, etc. but that’s not the case either. And people who were divorced and then the other parent died while the kids were still minors have to deal with that, too. The death of a parent is, hands down, the absolute worst thing that can happen to a child. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450/100 "2014-12-31T20:06:28Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > The death of a parent is, hands down, the absolute worst thing that can happen to a child. > [@](#): > > Our meta-analysis also showed that, although children who experience parental death are worse off than those in intact two-parent families, they have higher levels of well-being than do children of divorce. [Cite](https://www.princeton.edu/futureofchildren/publications/docs/04_01_08.pdf) (pdf). Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-kids-vs-having-no-kids-who-is-the-happiest/707450.md?page=6)