# Having laid low, the N.R.A. is fully prepped and rehearsed to control legislation. As usual.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 20, 2012, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605 "2012-12-20T05:02:36Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/101 "2012-12-20T18:49:03Z")
[Further proof of the O.P.](http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/19/the-risk-of-daring-to-disagree-with-the-nra/?hpt=hp_t2).
The N.R.A. controls very directly. Their power is immense. Those who shake their heads with a smirk at this assertion are just desperate to deny the truth.
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### Author:  [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/102 "2012-12-20T18:51:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> I don’t think this slippery slope argument is persuasive (like most slippery-slope arguments). After all, everything from nuclear weapons down to automatic submachine guns have been outlawed for decades- why would (for example) banning magazines larger than 10-rounds, or applying background checks and waiting periods to gun shows and ammunition suddenly put us on the road to banning all handguns?
I was specifically referring to bans on cosmetic features when I made the slippery slope statement.
I don’t think it applies (as much) to features that actually impact the function of the guns such as magazine size, or background checks or waiting periods. So you’ll get no argument from me on that strawman.
> [@](#):
>
> I think this shows how effective the NRA is in engendering fear in their membership and supporters. I actually probably agree with you on most gun rights issues, but it’s clear to me that the NRA exists first to raise money for the NRA (and personally enrich Wayne LaPierre and others), and a very distant second to actually protect gun rights.
I don’t know how you can think this. Would you argue that gun rights would be nearly as safe if the NRA vanished tomorrow?
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### Author:  [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/103 "2012-12-20T18:55:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> I’m not [anti-gun]…
Wait. You are actually claiming to not be anti-gun? Good grief. Just be honest about it, man.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/104 "2012-12-20T18:57:32Z")
> [@Loach](#):
>
> No idea. I’ve read a lot of laws. No idea what it means with regards to possession.
In the meantime, shouldn’t you defer to people who do have an idea, then?
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/105 "2012-12-20T19:00:22Z")
> [@Debaser](#):
>
> Wait. You are actually claiming to not be anti-gun? Good grief. Just be honest about it, man.
Back it up or shut it up, scumpuppy jr.
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### Author:  [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/106 "2012-12-20T19:00:35Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#):
>
> Almost zero chance? Gee.
>
> Tell that to the person who
>
> Went to a movie.
> Got some gas at the station.
> Walked down the street.
> Went to a store.
> Made a bank deposit.
> Sat in their bedroom.
> Walked down the sidewalk.
> Went to a sporting event.
> Was sitting in their car.
>
> And so on and so on and so on. Really? You hide behind the paper thin excuse of " Oh please- there’s almost a zero chance of you being killed with a gun. The numbers are terrific !! Only 10,000 + Americans killed with guns every year. Hell, there’s _millions_ of us. Hardly a drop of blood in the bucket." ?
>
> Nice !
Hm, 10 000/311 591 917 odds. Pretty damned good that I will not get shot randomly by a nut, in a crime or by accident. I _will_ however grant you a slightly higher chance of accidental shooting mainly because we own guns therefore it would be possible for one to accidentally discharge and shoot me. [going with the 10K number, and the most recent google of US population. In other words, pulling the odds out of my ass because I actually don’t remember how to calculate odds, it has been 30+ years since I had math.]
I think I actually have better odds of either getting hit by lightening or dying of salmonella.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/107 "2012-12-20T19:06:59Z")
> [@Algher](#):
>
> That is because adding taggants to powder would have effectively ended self loading (or the creation of special sifters). I load my own occasion, and the last thing I want to do is put some random shit in cartridge that is then going to explode inches away from my face.
>
> It was a feel good measure that would have impacted the shooting community.
Piffle, that assumes no improvement was possible and it totally ignores that others nations could do it and are doing it. The main point here is though that the NRA is really irresponsible and does want to continue making sure that many irresponsible gun owners do not face retribution when they are not following on common sense ideas.
As I see it, this item add to a picture of an organization that even denies what science can do to make crimes less likely or prosecutable.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/108 "2012-12-20T19:19:07Z")
Are there any major pro-gun rights organizations that aren’t tainted the way the NRA is?
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/109 "2012-12-20T19:22:09Z")
> [@Debaser](#):
>
> I don’t know how you can think this. Would you argue that gun rights would be nearly as safe if the NRA vanished tomorrow?
Absolutely. For one thing, there are actually other pro-gun organizations that don’t seem to exist just to enrich themselves- they just aren’t nearly as large as the NRA.
If the NRA vanished, then another pro-gun organization would likely take their place, and, unfortunately, eventually become as bloated and self-serving as the NRA- at least until gun owners started to realized that they were being preyed on, financially, due to their own anxieties (which are inflated and fanned by the NRA).
The right to bear arms is not in jeopardy- it’s as strong as it’s been in decades. The Supreme Court has struck down handgun bans in cities, a decision that President Obama expressed support for, and the worst thing likely to happen (for gun-rights advocates) in the near future would be a superficial “feel-good” law like the Brady Bill which did very little, IMO, to actually restrict the rights of gun owners (as well as very little to save lives, also IMO).
I’m not saying ignore gun rights- continue to lobby congressmen and look closely at candidates’ positions on gun control (and other issues)- but for me, if a politician is very close to the NRA, then that’s a net _negative_, because of their blatant conspiracy mongering, a transparent attempt to enrich themselves.
I think preying on fear for money is one of the worst things politicians and lobbyists do, and while it’s unfortunately very common, I think the NRA is one of the worst examples of this in America. I think Wayne LaPierre is one of the most disgusting opportunists in the country- and he’s become very, very rich by creating unwarranted fears and then preying on them to expand his own power and money.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/110 "2012-12-20T19:23:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Are there any major pro-gun rights organizations that aren’t tainted the way the NRA is?
I think pretty much all of the rest of them aren’t nearly as bad as the NRA is (as far as conspiracy-mongering and fear-inciting to raise money), but that just may be because the rest are pretty small. I plan to investigate further.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/111 "2012-12-20T19:25:51Z")
I have to mention that I’m on the record in favor of gun rights, and this is because the evidence on the whole shows that guns do not cause more crimes, but on the other hand it does not prevent more, so that is just a wash, what we need to concentrate is precisely on ways to prevent criminals and people with mental issues to get a hold of them.
Unfortunately even on that the NRA is just showing the nuttiness that one sees on creationists and climate change deniers. The default position is to even see serious attempts at dealing with this as to be equal to “take our guns away”
To follow on the irresponsibility of the NRA, it has to be mentioned here the appalling efforts they go to even prevent authorities from doing research to find ways to control the problems.
> **[Congress and the NRA Suppressed Research on Gun Violence](https://slate.com/technology/2012/12/gun-violence-research-nra-and-congress-blocked-gun-control-studies-at-cdc.html)**
>
> Read more on Slate about gun control.
> [@](#):
>
> After the tragic shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, calls for gun-control legislation have begun. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) said on NBC’s Meet the Press that she plans to introduce a bill to ban assault weapons. Even West Virginia Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin, who calls himself a gun supporter, says he sees no reason for these types of weapons.
>
> **But as Congress considers new laws, the scientific research we need to craft the best policies is in short supply. This is by design.**
>
> In the 1990s, politicians backed by the NRA attacked researchers for publishing data on firearm research. For good measure, they also went after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for funding the research. According to the NRA, such science is not “legitimate.” To make sure federal agencies got the message, Rep. Jay Dickey (R-Ark.) sponsored an amendment that stripped $2.6 million from the CDC’s budget, the exact amount it had spent on firearms research the previous year.
>
> But last summer, Dickey recanted. No longer in office, he wrote an editorial stating that “scientific research should be conducted into preventing firearm injuries and that ways to prevent firearm deaths can be found without encroaching on the rights of legitimate gun owners.”
To me it is an effort that is surprising to see it coming from groups that also reject science as a whole.
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### Author:  [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/112 "2012-12-20T19:39:02Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#):
>
> Ahhhhhh, that time-honored old chestnut. Cars kill. Salmonella kills. Radiation kills. Why not outlaw driving, eating food and walking in the sun?
>
> Because those rational adults who can differentiate between the normal risks of navigating the planet as it is today and having a weapon that only exists to kill is…well, a difference that rational adults can discern.
Ahhhhhh, that time-honored old chestnut. Guns only exist to kill.
Rational adults know that guns are used for a lot more than just killing, and they also know that sometimes killing is a good thing.
But I understand, you don’t a damn that a kid got killed yesterday by a repeat drunk driver. Why don’t you call their parents and let them know that the death of their child was OK as long as people have the right to drink, and the right to drive cars. I am sure they will feel better.
But you don’t care, do you?
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### Author:  [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/113 "2012-12-20T19:43:26Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> Piffle, that assumes no improvement was possible and it totally ignores that others nations could do it and are doing it. The main point here is though that the NRA is really irresponsible and does want to continue making sure that many irresponsible gun owners do not face retribution when they are not following on common sense ideas.
>
> As I see it, this item add to a picture of an organization that even denies what science can do to make crimes less likely or prosecutable.
The Swiss put taggants in explosives, but not in powder. What nation is requiring taggants in gunpowder? How many criminals have they caught by doing it? How much did it cost to implement?
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### Author:  [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/114 "2012-12-20T19:48:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Are there any major pro-gun rights organizations that aren’t tainted the way the NRA is?
The Gun Owners of America group makes the NRA look positively docile. They got stronger when the NRA supported the instant background check system - that was seen as a horrible compromise by a the more extreme members of the gun owners.
There are some hunting groups that support firearms rights as well, mainly focused on hunting weaponry. You also have some much smaller groups like the Pink Pistols (a group focused on arming gays and lesbians for self protection), but they don’t show up much on the radar.
The NRA didn’t used to be as political, but then again firearms used to be much easier to get and own. The started getting political in the 60s when gun control started hitting on a national basis.
I wish they didn’t use as much hyperbole, but they are also responding to hyperbole as well. More of a reflection of today’s political society IMHO.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/115 "2012-12-20T20:02:23Z")
> [@Algher](#):
>
> I wish they didn’t use as much hyperbole, but they are also responding to hyperbole as well. More of a reflection of today’s political society IMHO.
You think _hyperbole_ is what I’m talking about? Did you bother to read the link in post #101?
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/116 "2012-12-20T20:06:08Z")
As far as I can tell, the current NRA exists in order to make money for the NRA, because… well, because money.
The gun manufacturing industry likes the NRA, because they encourage folks to buy more guns. And that means… money. They like money.
To get money, the NRA engages in hyperbole, scare tactics and outright falsehoods. Then they get money, which is quite useful. Money pays large salaries, buys nice buildings and stuff. More stuff is good.
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### Author:  [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/117 "2012-12-20T20:08:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> You think _hyperbole_ is what I’m talking about? Did you bother to read the link in post #101?
Sorry - I should have responded better. Yes, I think that they have too much of everyone is either an A or a D (like in that case). I disagree with what they did there.
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### Author:  [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/118 "2012-12-20T20:13:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> I think pretty much all of the rest of them aren’t nearly as bad as the NRA is (as far as conspiracy-mongering and fear-inciting to raise money), but that just may be because the rest are pretty small. I plan to investigate further.
The NRA has a reputation for being moderate and mild compared with the other, smaller gun rights groups such as GOAL.
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### Author:  [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/119 "2012-12-20T20:21:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Absolutely. For one thing, there are actually other pro-gun organizations that don’t seem to exist just to enrich themselves- they just aren’t nearly as large as the NRA.
>
> -snip-
>
> … as bloated and self-serving as the NRA- at least until gun owners started to realized that they were being preyed on, financially, due to their own anxieties (which are inflated and fanned by the NRA).
>
> -snip-
>
> …if a politician is very close to the NRA, then that’s a net _negative_, because of their blatant conspiracy mongering, a transparent attempt to enrich themselves.
>
> I think Wayne LaPierre is one of the most disgusting opportunists in the country- and he’s become very, very rich by creating unwarranted fears and then preying on them to expand his own power and money.
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> As far as I can tell, the current NRA exists in order to make money for the NRA, because… well, because money.
Care to introduce any facts to the discussion? Do either of you have a cite for any of this? How rich is LaPierre? How much is the NRA enriching itself at the cost of its members? Is this in line with other lobbying groups?
> [@](#):
>
> The right to bear arms is not in jeopardy- it’s as strong as it’s been in decades. The Supreme Court has struck down handgun bans…
By a razor thin margin of one vote and now Obama has four more years to appoint justices to SCOTUS.
There is no question that if not for the NRA we would not enjoy the second amendment rights that we have today. It’s only through the organization of gun owners that politicians fear taking away our right to own guns. The organization might not be perfect, and if you have any actual evidence of financial misbehavior I’m willing to listen. But there is no doubt that the NRA has been holding the line on second amendment rights.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/120 "2012-12-20T20:27:41Z")
> [@Debaser](#):
>
> Care to introduce any facts to the discussion? Do either of you have a cite for any of this? How rich is LaPierre? How much is the NRA enriching itself at the cost of its members? Is this in line with other lobbying groups?
A cite for the NRA existing for making money? Seriously?
It’s money!
I don’t know who LaPierre is and I don’t give a shit how rich he is. Why? Because money!
Is the NRA providing a benefit to members? I’m sure it is. Do they do it voluntarily, taking no salaries and working out of their homes? No they do not. Money.
In line with other lobbying groups? Who knows and who cares? They all make money. Because money.
Shit, you act like there is some noble, holy principle involved. It’s about money.
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