# Having laid low, the N.R.A. is fully prepped and rehearsed to control legislation. As usual.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 20, 2012, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605 "2012-12-20T05:02:36Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 9
### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/161 "2012-12-21T01:08:06Z")
A dark and ugly thought just crossed my mind, naturally, my next thought was to share…
Crime scene photos were taken, of this we may be sure. The coroner on the case described the injuries…the _insults_, I think is the technical term…these children suffered… And even in the most austere and tersely worded terms, its enough to make any parent heartsick.
What happens when those photos are leaked? I suspect they will be, sooner or later. Hyper-emotional arguments? We ain’t seen nothin’ yet. Brace yourselves, because as ugly as it is, its likely to get a whole lot worse.
Means that those of us who value sanity must take steps to dial back our own normal reactions. Won’t stop the meth addled magpies amongst us, but at least it won’t add to the shrill hysteria. A prayer whispered in a windstorm, I suppose, but for what its worth…
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### Author:  [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/162 "2012-12-21T01:23:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> A dark and ugly thought just crossed my mind, naturally, my next thought was to share…
>
> Crime scene photos were taken, of this we may be sure. The coroner on the case described the injuries…the _insults_, I think is the technical term…these children suffered.. And even in the most austere and tersely worded terms, its enough to make any parent heartsick.
>
> What happens when those photos are leaked? I suspect they will be, sooner or later. Hyper-emotional arguments? We ain’t seen nothin’ yet. Brace yourselves, because as ugly as it is, its likely to get a whole lot worse.
>
> Means that those of us who value sanity must take steps to dial back our own normal reactions. Won’t stop the meth addled magpies amongst us, but at least it won’t add to the shrill hysteria. A prayer whispered in a windstorm, I suppose, but for what its worth…
Any media source that shows pictures of dead children is so far beyond sick that I hope they would get boycotted out of existence.
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### Author:  [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/163 "2012-12-21T01:53:29Z")
> [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](#):
>
> Any media source that shows pictures of dead children is so far beyond sick that I hope they would get boycotted out of existence.
That’s what the Internet’s for! ☹
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/164 "2012-12-21T01:56:48Z")
Well, maybe I’m wrong about that, all well and good, far as I see. But I’m something of a pessimist, so I’m not often wrong. Not often enough.
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### Author:  [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/165 "2012-12-21T01:58:09Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#):
>
> From the start this subject hasn’t been about “talking”, it’s been the anvil that gun-control people and everybody else who has some sort of grievance has been breaking people’s balls over. Your OP is more of the same. You didn’t want a discussion, you wanted another 10-page “me too” thread. All I’m doing is adding to the post count to get you there faster.
>
> Incidentally, how is it that I have an “agenda”? The only “agenda” I see here is yours. In fact, it’s been about the only “agenda” for the last week.
Hey pal, I’m not the one with blood on my hands. You want to see blood on someone’s hands, [look in the mirror.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/14/savita-halappanavar-death-irish-woman-denied-abortion-dies_n_2128696.html).
ETA: The same people who would show the photos of the murdered children are the ones who are happy to shove large color photos of aborted fetuses in front of people in public places.
No humanity, no common sense, no respect, no decency. Just out for their own agenda.
I personally decry such disgusting behavior.
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### Author:  [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/166 "2012-12-21T01:59:26Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Well, maybe I’m wrong about that, all well and good, far as I see. But I’m something of a pessimist, so I’m not often wrong. Not often enough.
I can’t recall this happening with any other recent mass shooting. What makes you think it will happen this time?
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/167 "2012-12-21T02:48:13Z")
I don’t know that “think” is really the applicable word here. I sense more than think that something is very different this time. Take the Dope. Please…
A watering hole for rationalists, people who prize objectivity and are suspicious of any powerful emotional content attached to political questions. You doubt that, just amble around a few other message boards. Need your hair curled? That’ll do it.
But even here, there are spasms of negative energy coursing through the Board. (Thats likely a clumsy metaphor, but it’ll have to do, translate accordingly, so longs you get the drift…) By my assessment, more than any of the other times things like this have happened. All of them were heavy, some were very heavy, this is bordering on neutron density.
If this is what’s going on here, what’s it like out there amongst the teeming?
Anyway, what was too extreme, too crazy last time? May not matter.
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### Author:  [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/168 "2012-12-21T02:53:34Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> I was not just concentrating on gun powder, I only did mention that it is possible to do and your copy paste argument (that same way of singling out Switzerland and no gunpowder is boiler plate copy paste from pro gun sites) just shows a lack of curiousness and dependance on what that group says.
>
> The fact does remain that if you concentrate in the past then for sure you could find many problems, but this once again denies that there has been progress, of course manufacturers of the stuff do report that [they are busy with the technology and selling many different solutions](http://microtracesolutions.com/), but as for who and where they are selling, that information is classified, but for me it is enough to realize that the opposition to taggants by claiming that it would not work in explosives or even gun powder is bullshit nowadays.
Deleted. Not worth it. Let myself get worked up, even for the pit.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/169 "2012-12-21T02:57:46Z")
> [@Algher](#):
>
> So prove it, cite, or since this is the pit - you are full of it. You brought up the bullshit about taggants, I called you on it. You are wrong, you don’t know jack shit about the subject and are just trying to scramble around for an answer.
What answer? For Detection Taggants or Identification ones?
The reality is that it was bullshit what you said about the problems with adding taggants for the simple reason that science marches on, what I see on your double down is just exactly like creationists and climate change denialists go for, ignore progress.
On Edit: They do not cite it by text, they mention it in the images in the main page, they make reference to their taggants being used in explosives and that nano technology is making a mockery of the issues brought forward until recently, of course if you ignore that they are a company making those things and selling them it is only logical to realize that they are many places that will not confess on using it, for security reasons.
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### Author:  [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/170 "2012-12-21T03:13:07Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> What answer? For Detection Taggants or Identification ones?
>
> The reality is that it was bullshit what you said about the problems with adding taggants for the simple reason that science marches on, what I see on your double down is just exactly like creationists and climate change denialists go for, ignore progress.
>
> On Edit: They do not cite it by text, they mention it in the images in the main page, they make reference to their taggants being used in explosives and that nano technology is making a mockery of the issues brought forward until recently, of course if you ignore that they are a company making those things and selling them it is only logical to realize that they are many places that will not confess on using it, for security reasons.
And in 1996 it was a bullshit thing to try to legislate. An analysis was done, at the time it would not work. It would also require a series of registries for firearm ammunition supplies as well.
Fix the instant background check system first. Let me know when you get all of the mentally ill in there properly registered. Let me know when the felony part of that is properly updated.
THEN feel free to try to register cans of powder that I use for self loading, and that friends use for self loading. I guess you will have to outlaw foreign ammo, and make sure that every small box of ammo has a unique tag that Wal Mart will enter into a system, along with the name and ID number of the buyer.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/171 "2012-12-21T03:21:19Z")
> [@Algher](#):
>
> And in 1996 it was a bullshit thing to try to legislate. An analysis was done, at the time it would not work. It would also require a series of registries for firearm ammunition supplies as well.
>
> Fix the instant background check system first. Let me know when you get all of the mentally ill in there properly registered. Let me know when the felony part of that is properly updated.
>
> THEN feel free to try to register cans of powder that I use for self loading, and that friends use for self loading. I guess you will have to outlaw foreign ammo, and make sure that every small box of ammo has a unique tag that Wal Mart will enter into a system, along with the name and ID number of the buyer.
Meh, that is also willfully ignoring that it works the other way, if powder or fertilizer (and once again, I’m not concentrating on Gun powder, your boiler plate learned system of debating requires you to stick to it) are found with no taggants then it is easier also to find out where it comes from as others will have them. And you are indeed acknowledging that that research is old and ignores the progress that has been made.
Incidentally, I’m also on the record of recommending also to fix the background check and improving the detection and to care for the mental health of people that could be close to guns, but once again: guess what groups are on the record opposing reform in health care (Yes, "Obamacare does offer more coverage for mental health issues) and better accountability of persons with mental problems that are close to guns?
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### Author:  [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/172 "2012-12-21T12:27:45Z")
> [@Algher](#):
>
> Fix the instant background check system first. Let me know when you get all of the mentally ill in there properly registered. Let me know when the felony part of that is properly updated.
Yes, but many people aren’t labeled as felons or mentally ill until after their first act of violence. Besides, no matter how stringent the check, Nancy Lanza would have whistled through. So where does that leave us?
Maybe they should start asking, “Do you have any whackadoodles living with you?” as part of the background check.
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### Author:  [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/173 "2012-12-21T13:55:55Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#):
>
> Amusing. " This Doper I don’t like found a link that supports his point of view. Clearly, it isn’t worth my time. " Welcome to the Straight Dope. We fight Ignorance here. Telling everyone in a thread that you couldn’t be bothered to consider someone else’s links is kind of like flapping your tongue and whining, " nyeah nyeah, I’m right and you’re dumb".
>
> [Allow me to](http://www.nrapvf.org/defeat/why-representative-debra-maggart-must-be-defeated.aspx) [provide you with](http://wpln.org/?p=39847) [further information including a firsthand article by Debra Maggart](http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/12/17/is-the-gun-lobby-invincible/even-friends-must-toe-the-line-or-face-wrath).
This is just perfect. The lack of self awareness is strong with this one.
I especially love how you accuse me of not reading your links and condescendingly provide a link… That I had already posted.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/174 "2012-12-21T14:21:33Z")
> [@Debaser](#):
>
> Are you just the usual sort of anti-capitalist nut that the board now attracts? The fact that people running the NRA make money makes them pure evil and they can’t actually be about a cause? That’s all the evidence you need to write them off?
For me, it’s not so much that they make money, as the fact that they don’t tell anyone about it. For a non-profit, the NRA (and -ILA) is awfully secretive about its funding. As I noted elsewhere, they seem to be just about the only charity in the country that doesn’t publish an annual report.
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### Author:  [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/175 "2012-12-21T16:38:25Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#):
>
> Yes, but many people aren’t labeled as felons or mentally ill until after their first act of violence. Besides, no matter how stringent the check, Nancy Lanza would have whistled through. So where does that leave us?
>
> Maybe they should start asking, “Do you have any whackadoodles living with you?” as part of the background check.
That would be an interesting statistic - how many people commit a felony with a gun as their first one? That would tell us if the felony list could work.
For the mentally ill side of things, we would need to take a completely new direction in how we identify, categorize and treat the mentally ill. We currently allow the mentally ill to live on the street rather than force them into treatment centers, for example. Are we willing to allow someone to file a report that “that boy ain’t right” triggering a review by a government appointment mental health professional? I honestly don’t know how that could be run.
I have no issue with a national ID that works for voting, that also has designation that I am allowed to purchase a firearm (the two should be the same - if you are OK to vote, you should be OK to own a gun. Conversely, if you are not a good enough citizen to trust with a gun, you should not be allowed to vote).
In the meantime, overall violent crime is down - but we still get these whacked out killings. Given Heller, absent a Constitutional Amendment (which will not pass anytime soon), we will have more impact finding ways of identifying the crazies and arming the people IMHO.
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### Author:  [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/176 "2012-12-21T16:42:46Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> Meh, that is also willfully ignoring that it works the other way, if powder or fertilizer (and once again, I’m not concentrating on Gun powder, your boiler plate learned system of debating requires you to stick to it) are found with no taggants then it is easier also to find out where it comes from as others will have them. And you are indeed acknowledging that that research is old and ignores the progress that has been made.
>
> Incidentally, I’m also on the record of recommending also to fix the background check and improving the detection and to care for the mental health of people that could be close to guns, but once again: guess what groups are on the record opposing reform in health care (Yes, "Obamacare does offer more coverage for mental health issues) and better accountability of persons with mental problems that are close to guns?
I concentrate on gun powder, because that is the stuff that the NRA membership cared about. We don’t have a problem in this country with rogue farmers using their stump removal dynamite killing people. We don’t even have a big issue with pipe bombs (which are made with powder). Tim McVeigh did use bags of ammonium nitrate fertilizer combined with diesel - and now the fertilizer is treated like Sudafed and large purchases are flagged (and they changed the formula as I recall for the stuff at Home Depot).
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### Author:  [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/177 "2012-12-21T16:57:13Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#):
>
> Maybe they should start asking, “Do you have any whackadoodles living with you?” as part of the background check.
I would actually fully support this, although I think you meant it as a joke, or at least partially a joke. If anyone in your household has a history of mental illness, I do not believe you should be allowed to store guns in your house.
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### Author:  [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/178 "2012-12-21T16:57:37Z")
> [@Debaser](#):
>
> However, your examples are all wrong. Of course the NRA has been fighting Holder on Fast and Furious. That was a back door attempt to get gun control back on the radar.
Whoah there. This is nothing more than a cheap conspiracy theory until you can substantiate it.
edit: On the level of “We didn’t go to the moon.” Has anyone else called this guy out on this?
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/179 "2012-12-21T17:08:53Z")
News update: the NRA has notw made it’s first official public comments about the Connecticut shooting. [Transcript here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/remarks-from-the-nra-press-conference-on-sandy-hook-school-shooting-delivered-on-dec-21-2012-transcript/2012/12/21/bd1841fe-4b88-11e2-a6a6-aabac85e8036_story.html) courtesy the Washington Post.
Short version – put an armed cop in every single school. Not one single word other possible solutions whatsoever.
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### Author:  [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-laid-low-the-n-r-a-is-fully-prepped-and-rehearsed-to-control-legislation-as-usual/644605/180 "2012-12-21T17:11:10Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#):
>
> News update: the NRA has notw made it’s first official public comments about the Connecticut shooting. [Transcript here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/remarks-from-the-nra-press-conference-on-sandy-hook-school-shooting-delivered-on-dec-21-2012-transcript/2012/12/21/bd1841fe-4b88-11e2-a6a6-aabac85e8036_story.html) courtesy the Washington Post.
>
> Short version – put an armed cop in every single school. Not one single word other possible solutions whatsoever.
He also asked that we at least consider if that would have saved the lives of **26** innocent children…:smack:
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