# Having trouble making sauces for dinner **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 25, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588 "2019-07-25T02:58:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/21 "2019-07-25T18:29:47Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Overall, that recipe for pork tenderloin is just a bad recipe. They don’t explain that you can’t use store-bought broth and the timing is off. No way are you going to cook down 2 cups of broth to the point that it thickens in 4-5 minutes, no matter how great your stove or wide your pan is. It just takes longer than that. First thing I thought when I read that recipe. Either that, or they have a jet engine for a burner and a 20" wide pan. I find even the good recipes will often underestimate the time to reduce. But you are also right in that reducing water will simply yield less water, not thickened water, and there is very little gelatin in commercial broths/stocks for it to thicken properly in a sauce. I find cornstarch simpler to use than gelatin, but gelatin leaves a better mouth feel. Flour is better used at the beginning, not to thicken at the end (IMNSHO). ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/22 "2019-07-25T18:58:41Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The key to great sauces and gravies is stirring. Lots of stirring. Gravy, yes (and more accurately whisking when making the roux and adding the broth). But sauces don’t need a lot of stirring. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/23 "2019-07-25T19:18:12Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#): > > What about gluten-free flour? I just looked up a gluten-free flour (Bob’s Red Mill), and I would not use it to thicken sauces unless you’re willing to risk needing to throw your sauce out. Way too many different starches in there. If you need to make a gluten-free sauce, any powdered starch will do, but each will add its own flavor and texture, and require its own technique. In addition to cornstarch, I’ve used ground dried chickpeas (I think that may be common in Indian food - my curries taste more authentic with it). I’ve also used arrowroot, which in addition to being gluten-free is low-calorie, because it only takes a fraction of the amount of arrowroot vs. flour. That also makes it cheaper, so I associate the flavor with cheap gravy. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/24 "2019-07-26T12:16:11Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That was my thought as well- that 4-5 minute estimate is wildly inaccurate. Which is usually true of most estimates like that, I find. They say something like “cook onions until golden” and then quote something like 8 minutes. Which is funny, because it usually takes 5-10 minutes more to get them golden in my experience. Onion cooking is actually a little bit of a joke in cooking communities. I’ve read many threads making fun of directions around caramelizing onions; I don’t know if recipe writers are afraid to scare folks or what, but there are so many recipes that say “cook onions for 10 to 15 minutes until they’re dark golden brown and caramelized.” Anyone who’s caramelized onions knows that 10-15 minutes results in slightly brown not caramelized onions. A good dark caramelizing takes a looooong time. Like 40+ minutes, and lots of stirring. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/25 "2019-07-26T12:24:11Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Onion cooking is actually a little bit of a joke in cooking communities. I’ve read many threads making fun of directions around caramelizing onions; I don’t know if recipe writers are afraid to scare folks or what, but there are so many recipes that say “cook onions for 10 to 15 minutes until they’re dark golden brown and caramelized.” > > Anyone who’s caramelized onions knows that 10-15 minutes results in slightly brown not caramelized onions. A good dark caramelizing takes a looooong time. Like 40+ minutes, and lots of stirring. I think you’re right that recipe writers do that so folks won’t take a gander at “40 plus minutes, stirring throughout”, and say, “Oh HELL no!” and go on to another recipe. Lots of recipes also say, “Saute onions until translucent”. That doesn’t happen in ten minutes either. I don’t saute onions that long, just until they’re a little soft and shiny. I don’t know if my cooking suffers for it, but nobody has died or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/26 "2019-07-26T12:24:51Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Canned/boxed broth or stock or whatever they call it will never thicken; it’s essentially flavored water and will not thicken any more than water would thicken. It just boils down. > > Homemade broth contains gelatin from the bones used to make it, thus when it reduces it does thicken. You can get the same sort of effect by adding unflavored gelatin to a sauce (see my link above for directions). So I went to the store yesterday and got the gelatin. They also had a broth that was “Bone broth” and the description on the box was something like “made from simmering meat and bones” Would that be worthwhile getting, does anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/27 "2019-07-26T15:39:31Z")
I’d guess it has more gelatin than garden-variety grocery store stock, but it’s still not going to be all that much thicker. It might work though, although adding gelatin yourself is probably more controllable, I’d guess. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/28 "2019-07-26T15:46:27Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So I went to the store yesterday and got the gelatin. They also had a broth that was “Bone broth” and the description on the box was something like “made from simmering meat and bones” > > Would that be worthwhile getting, does anyone know? Probably not. “Bone broth” is an in-thing, so manufacturers are capitalizing on it. Doubtful you’ll get the same benefits from mass-produced bone broth as you would from home-made. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/29 "2019-07-26T15:53:06Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Probably not. “Bone broth” is an in-thing, so manufacturers are capitalizing on it. Doubtful you’ll get the same benefits from mass-produced bone broth as you would from home-made. I figured as much, so I just went only with the gelatin. I’ll post how it comes out. Wish me luck! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/30 "2019-07-26T16:51:13Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Probably not. “Bone broth” is an in-thing, so manufacturers are capitalizing on it. Doubtful you’ll get the same benefits from mass-produced bone broth as you would from home-made. My guess is the same. One way to check is just put it in the fridge. Does it gel or at least somewhat thicken? When I make broth or stock, my liquid gels when I put it in the fridge, as I use plenty of bones and meat with connective tissue in its making. This is what you need when you want a broth/stock that will properly reduce to coat the back of a spoon or leave trails. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/31 "2019-07-29T23:52:22Z")
So I made the pork loin this weekend. First, why does a 3lb pork loin end up being TWO separate 1 1/2 pound pork loins when you bring it home? I studied the package looking for any indication, but nothing was there. Damn that was annoying. I used the gelatin, but I’m not sure if it helped. I had to boil the sauce for a good 15 minutes to reduce it enough (before the heavy cream). Also, if for some reason a poster wants to use that recipe, go easy on the peppercorn coating. The loin turned out more peppery then we liked. The sauce itself turned out saltier than it should have been, not sure why. But putting it on the meat and eating with mashed potatoes made it pretty good. A positive note, my kids ate everything in about 3 minutes and said they liked it, so I consider that a success 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/32 "2019-07-30T02:28:48Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > First, why does a 3lb pork loin end up being TWO separate 1 1/2 pound pork loins when you bring it home? Sounds like you might not have bought “loin”, but “tenderloin”(s) - a different, smaller muscle/cut (and one I generally prefer, actually.) ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/33 "2019-07-30T03:39:22Z")
Too late to edit the above, but note there is no such thing as a 3 lb pork tenderloin - 1.5 lbs is about as large as a tenderloin cut can get…a loin cut OTOH can be 5 lbs or more. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/34 "2019-07-30T13:11:55Z")
> [@zombywoof](#): > > Too late to edit the above, but note there is no such thing as a 3 lb pork tenderloin - 1.5 lbs is about as large as a tenderloin cut can get…a loin cut OTOH can be 5 lbs or more. Ah, that could be my problem. 🙂 They are all together at the commissary and last time I picked a 4 lb one which was a bit too big. So this time I was happy they had an almost 3 pound one. Of course, it ended up being 2 separate pieces of meat when I opened the package. Frozen pizza and beer is so much simpler. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/35 "2019-07-30T14:55:24Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > The sauce itself turned out saltier than it should have been, not sure why. But putting it on the meat and eating with mashed potatoes made it pretty good. If you season sauces to your taste before you reduce them, they will be overpowering at the table because you’ll have concentrated them by boiling off some of the water. Undersalt at the start and re-assess at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/36 "2019-07-30T15:06:13Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > If you season sauces to your taste before you reduce them, they will be overpowering at the table because you’ll have concentrated them by boiling off some of the water. Undersalt at the start and re-assess at the end. I didn’t add any salt to it at all. I was tasting at the end to assess flavor and found it was already too salty. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/37 "2019-07-30T15:10:39Z")
What was the sauce? Red wine, beef stock and cream? Try it with unsalted beef stock. I often find the regular storebought stocks and broths too salty as well. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/38 "2019-07-30T16:23:11Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What was the sauce? Red wine, beef stock and cream? Try it with unsalted beef stock. I often find the regular storebought stocks and broths too salty as well. Yes, that was pretty much it. I’ll try the unsalted stock next time. Thanks for all the suggestions! ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/39 "2019-07-30T16:27:34Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What was the sauce? Red wine, beef stock and cream? Try it with unsalted beef stock. I often find the regular storebought stocks and broths too salty as well. Exactly, if you’re significantly reducing stock to make a sauce, use the low salt version of the stock. There are times I’ve even diluted that with water (plus gelatin so it will thicken) to reduce the salt level. It may not be as “beefy” but it is still good. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/40 "2019-07-30T20:59:23Z")
Ooooh yeah, forgot about the salt in store-bought broth. Always use low-salt. Hell, by the time you dig around for low-salt broth and add gelatin and all that, why not just make your own broth? You can even pre-reduce it if you want (I do that sometimes) so you can skip that step when making sauces. If you have a freezer, you can make a batch on a rainy weekend and keep it around all the time. Or make small batches as needed using a pressure cooker or instant pot. Really, if there’s one easy thing you can do to up your cooking game and make sauces easy to make, it’s making your own broth. Yes, it takes a while if you’re not doing the pressure cooker method, but assuming you have a freezer, you only do it every few months or less and it’s a game-changer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588.md?page=3)