# Having trouble making sauces for dinner **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 25, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588 "2019-07-25T02:58:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/41 "2019-07-30T21:23:21Z")
While we’re on salt… ALWAYS, ALWAYS wait until your sauce is reduced, and you’ve mounted the butter before you add any salt. I’ve made the mistake of adding salt too early and just reduced it down to inedibly salty a couple of times. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/42 "2019-07-30T21:46:10Z")
Honestly I skip the low salt and go straight to no salt. I’ve never found it lacking and around here low-salt seems to mean 33% less salt than the regular version. Woo, 500 mgs per serving instead of 800! I feel healthier already. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/43 "2019-07-30T21:52:53Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So I made the pork loin this weekend. > > First, why does a 3lb pork loin end up being TWO separate 1 1/2 pound pork loins when you bring it home? I studied the package looking for any indication, but nothing was there. Damn that was annoying. Were these tenderloins, or just pork loin? If its tenderloin it’s both the tenderloins from the pig, and that is how it is usually packaged. If it’s pork loin, then that is odd. Easy way to tell the difference is price. Pork loin is usually about half to 3/4’s the price. Tenderloin is also much smaller in diameter than a loin. > [@](#): > > I used the gelatin, but I’m not sure if it helped. I had to boil the sauce for a good 15 minutes to reduce it enough (before the heavy cream). > > Also, if for some reason a poster wants to use that recipe, go easy on the peppercorn coating. The loin turned out more peppery then we liked. > > The sauce itself turned out saltier than it should have been, not sure why. But putting it on the meat and eating with mashed potatoes made it pretty good. > > A positive note, my kids ate everything in about 3 minutes and said they liked it, so I consider that a success 🙂 My usual recipe is to cook the meat in the pan, then when it is done and resting, add a bit of wine (white, in this case) to deglaze the pan and get all the fromage off of the bottom. You are basically cleaning the pan at this point. I have some friends that will actually use an aluminum scrubby (often referred to as steel wool, even though it isn’t) to get every bit up, but I just use a fork. Once the wine is mostly gone, toss in some more oil (or butter, it’s great with butter if you don’t like your arteries too much), but about a tablespoon or so (to be honest, I stopped measuring ingredients about 20 years ago), and then about the same in flour. Stir that around, and let the flour starts to turn a bit brown, then you can add your stock, or just water, it’ll have so much flavor already the stock isn’t absolutely necessary. You’ll want to add it slowly and bring it up to a boil each time. Once it is the right consistency to coat the back of a spoon, it’s good to go. What was real fun was when my stove was not working, so I would cook the meat in the oven, and then make the gravy in the microwave from the drippings. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/44 "2019-07-30T21:54:39Z")
> [@bump](#): > > While we’re on salt… ALWAYS, ALWAYS wait until your sauce is reduced, and you’ve mounted the butter before you add any salt. I’ve made the mistake of adding salt too early and just reduced it down to inedibly salty a couple of times. Unsalted butter helps too. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/45 "2019-07-31T13:06:40Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Unsalted butter helps too. Oh, for sure! But ultimately unless you know the salt content of everything you threw in, and exactly what it’s going to taste like after being reduced, it really pays to salt the sauce at the very end. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/46 "2019-07-31T13:36:05Z")
> [@bump](#): > > and you’ve mounted the butter We’re still talking about cooking, right? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/47 "2019-07-31T16:21:32Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > We’re still talking about cooking, right? > > 🙂 Yeah… that’s the actual term for incorporating butter into a sauce at the very end, believe it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/48 "2019-07-31T16:44:02Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Were these tenderloins, or just pork loin? If its tenderloin it’s both the tenderloins from the pig, and that is how it is usually packaged. If it’s pork loin, then that is odd. > > Easy way to tell the difference is price. Pork loin is usually about half to 3/4’s the price. Tenderloin is also much smaller in diameter than a loin. I never really thought about the differences between pork loin and pork tenderloin. I’m guessing that I really bought 3 lbs of tenderloin, which ended up being 2 tenderloins, instead of one 3 lb loin. Now I know. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/49 "2019-07-31T16:45:17Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Yeah… that’s the actual term for incorporating butter into a sauce at the very end, believe it or not. Huh, never heard that in any cooking show. I know because I would have been giggling at it (because I’m childish like that) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/50 "2019-07-31T17:41:49Z")
Three cups of liquid isn’t going to reduce significantly just by simmering for 3 minutes, at least IME. I’d do a roux, which is just a flour and fat thickener. Remove the meat, add enough stock to the bottom of the pan to cover it by a half inch or so, bring to the simmer and scrape the brown bits off the bottom of the pan. In the mean time, melt two tablespoons of butter in another pan, add three tablespoons of flour, stir it up and cook for 2-3 minutes (uncooked flour isn’t tasty). Then add the simmering stock to the roux, stirring thoroughly, and keep adding more stock. If you are going to add wine or cream, make sure it is hot before you stir it into the roux - hot into hot means no lumps. You might need more roux for three cups of liquid. You test the thickness by dipping a wooden spoon into it, then holding it up and swiping your finger across it. If the bare streak created remains and the sauce/gravy doesn’t run down and cover it, the sauce is done. Different people like different levels of salt in their food, so I use unsalted butter if we got it in the house. You can always put more in, but it is hard to take it out. “Enough” salt for me is going to be “too much” for my wife, so I go lighter and keep the shaker handy. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/51 "2019-08-01T01:23:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’d do a roux, which is just a flour and fat thickener. Does one have to make a roux to make any sauce, or is that a beginning component of certain sauces? I know what a roux is, but haven’t run across any recipes that require it. (Also remember I’m trying to learn, and cooking, like carpentry, I’ve found, requires a lot more than one can learn on YouTube) ---
**Author:** ![Rayks\_Marcial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47c2d/32.png) [@Rayks\_Marcial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayks_Marcial)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/52 "2019-08-01T01:41:10Z")
Hmmmm… sauce through reduction. The sauces and gravies I know aren’t. Taste and texture all depend on components. Beef gravy uses butter, drippings, flour, some stock. Béchamel sauce for lasagna uses flour, butter, milk, salt, pepper, parmesan. Our favorite spaghetti sauce is puttanesca, using canned crushed tomatoes with garlic, basil, black olives, capers. Oh, there is one exception: chicken curry. I don’t follow the Thai method of adding coconut milk or cream. I put in just enough water to stew the chicken and let it reduce all within 40 minutes, and that’s when I add the curry powder. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/53 "2019-08-01T02:34:50Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Does one have to make a roux to make any sauce, or is that a beginning component of certain sauces? I know what a roux is, but haven’t run across any recipes that require it. (Also remember I’m trying to learn, and cooking, like carpentry, I’ve found, requires a lot more than one can learn on YouTube) No. There is the cornstarch method. That gives a smoother, clearer, more Chinese food gravy feel. I have made substantial amounts of pan sauce at once but this involves cooking more than two tenderloins, scraping and saving the crunchies in between the meat searing so that they don’t burn, plus the drippings from whatever is holding the meat while the other meat cooks, deglazing with very little amount whatever liquid I’m using to unstick the pan and then adding liquid as I need it after adding the extra burnt offerings and meat juice. THEN you can add a cup or two of liquid (never water). I always do it on high because I’m too impatient. Then I add a pat of butter at the end. Sound more involved and complicated than it really is. I don’t put the butter and flour in a different pan. I add them right on top of the fond, butter first so I can deglaze a bit. Flour goes in and cooks until it is the color I’d like the gravy to be. And then liquid and whisk, liquid and whisk until it’s a bit more watery than you want because it will thicken as it cools. That all really does sound a lot more complicated than it really is. And I’m not a professional or anything. Just the way I make sauce and gravy that my family likes. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/54 "2019-08-01T03:14:40Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Does one have to make a roux to make any sauce Nope. It depends on what kind of sauce you’re making. You can use a cornstarch slurry (as **Biggirl** mentioned) to thicken a liquid into a sauce. You can use a roux of butter/oil and flour (once again, Biggirl’s method is exactly how I make a standard gravy from pan drippings). You can make emulsified sauces using fat & egg yolks (see Béarnaise, Hollandaise, etc.) You can make sauces through reduction (cream sauces will reduce to a coat-your-spoon consistency without the need for starch. See: steak au poivre), heavy-gelatin containing stocks can be reduced (see: demi-glace). And there’s probably a ton I’m forgetting (like if you want to include stuff like tomato sauce on this list.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/55 "2019-08-01T04:19:49Z")
Manson, I’d like to recommend that you get yourself a good cookbook. As you’ve found, the internet is pretty hit and miss. Working out of a single cookbook for a little while will help you build important skills, and will be consistent across recipes in terms of measurements and methods. [How to Cook Everything](https://www.amazon.com/How-Cook-Everything-Simple-Recipes/dp/0028610105/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=) is very informative and approachable and, as the name suggests, has just about everything you can think of. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/56 "2019-08-01T13:19:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Does one have to make a roux to make any sauce, or is that a beginning component of certain sauces? I know what a roux is, but haven’t run across any recipes that require it. As **Biggirl** and others mention, it’s just one way of thickening a sauce. Others are cornstarch or arrowroot. Another is a simple deglazing sauce, which sounds like what you were doing. When I make pork chops, when they are done I remove them to a covered plate, and pour enough white wine into the pan to cover the bottom, raise to a rapid simmer, and stir for a minute or two. It thickens up, and I pour it over the chops. The idea is to get familiar with some basic techniques, and then you can start playing around to see what you like. Eventually you will get to the point where you can think of two or three answers to “what sounds good?” off the top of your head, and then you’re golden. > [@](#): > > (Also remember I’m trying to learn, and cooking, like carpentry, I’ve found, requires a lot more than one can learn on YouTube) I learned to cook from watching Julia Child on her series _The French Chef_ and a later series called _Dinner at Julia’s_. And watching this large crazy woman charging around the kitchen, gasping and throwing ingredients around and being a famous chef lead me to ask “if she can do it, it can’t be that hard”. So I started by making _coq au vin_, because it had an intimidating French name. It is just chicken stewed in red wine, and it turned out very good, and everybody ate it and liked it. And that led to _beef bourgignon_ and French bread and on to souffles and custards and quiches and the butterflied semi-boneless turkey I make every Thanksgiving and the discovery that it isn’t that much harder to saute a couple of chicken breasts with tarragon and white wine than to make a hamburger. As with most arts, you learn the techniques well enough to know how to combine - or ignore - them. Of course - > [@](#): > > - Never apologize, never explain. > - Never get mad. > - What happens in the kitchen stays in the kitchen. You will encounter the occasional disaster. All cooks do - see the famous “Buche Noel” episode on _The French Chef_ for an example of how to serve a disastrous failure with a straight face. But the main lesson to be learned is something you can only learn when you cook for your family and friends - it tastes different when it is made by somebody who loves you. If they like it, you made it right. Period. > [@Johnny Bravo](#): > > How to Cook Everything is very informative and approachable and, as the name suggests, has just about everything you can think of. We have dozens of cookbooks, but the one I have to replace every few years because it falls apart from use is [_Joy of Cooking_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Joy_of_Cooking). We also own _Julia Child’s The Way to Cook_ on DVD, and rewatch it on occasion. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/57 "2019-08-01T13:31:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Manson, I’d like to recommend that you get yourself a good cookbook. > > As you’ve found, the internet is pretty hit and miss. Working out of a single cookbook for a little while will help you build important skills, and will be consistent across recipes in terms of measurements and methods. > > [How to Cook Everything](https://www.amazon.com/How-Cook-Everything-Simple-Recipes/dp/0028610105/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=) is very informative and approachable and, as the name suggests, has just about everything you can think of. I actually have a lot of cookbooks. I usually do pretty well, just some things require someone who knows what something is supposed to taste like or similar to tell me. Can’t get everything from a cookbook. That’s why I started this thread to find out from people who know whether or not I’m doing it wrong. I’d like to take some cooking classes, but there are none convenient to where I live. I only cook for my kids, so it’s pretty much 6 or 8 days a month, so I don’t get a lot of time to experiment. I want to make sure it’s something edible for them to eat 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588/58 "2019-08-01T14:27:37Z")
> [@Rayks\_Marcial](#): > > Hmmmm… sauce through reduction. The sauces and gravies I know aren’t. Sauce is a pretty all-encompassing term that basically means any sort of semi-liquid condiment that is put with some other dish. What the OP was describing is a classic pan sauce. They’re not typically particularly thick, and the general technique is to fry/saute something in a pan, and then use some sort of flavorful liquid(s)- wine, stock, juices, etc… to soften and dissolve the stuck-down crud (fond) left on the bottom of the pan (deglazing). Then that dissolved fond and liquid is typically reduced down, and things can be added at the beginning- herbs/spices/aromatics, sometimes cream is added before reducing, and often butter is added as a thickener of sorts at the very end (the aforementioned mounting of the sauce) That’s the basic pan sauce blueprint. (here’s a good writeup: [https://blog.wolfgourmet.com/pan-sauce/](https://blog.wolfgourmet.com/pan-sauce/)) Gravies are typically more of a roux-ish approach- for say… .brown gravy, you’d either retain or add some fat to the pan, and then add a specific amount of flour, and basically create a roux of your desired color. From there, you add liquid- usually beef stock or chicken stock in small-ish increments and whisk it in. As the roux absorbs the liquid, it’ll thicken up, and you’ll end up with a gravy. Cream gravy as used on stuff like chicken fried steaks or biscuits is similar, except that you typically use something like sausage grease or bacon grease, and you don’t cook the roux until it’s dark. Then you add milk to thin it out, and lots of black pepper. Classic bechamel sauce is a LOT like cream gravy, only more refined and specific- you use butter, use a new pan (no fond), and there’s typically a pinch of nutmeg. Sauces take practice… it took me a lot of practice and a few spectacular failures before I got it mostly down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/having-trouble-making-sauces-for-dinner/837588.md?page=2)