# Hawaiian pizza origin
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [July 31, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038 "2005-07-31T21:03:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/1 "2005-07-31T21:03:10Z")
Does anyone know where Hawaiian pizza originated? It isn’t especially popular in Hawaii, so it probably didn’t come from there. When I was in college (early 70s) I was told that a certain national pizza chain (name forgotten) only carried it in their Northwest franchises. This made me think that it originated somewhere in that part of the country. Is that right?
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### Author:  [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/2 "2005-07-31T21:31:30Z")
What’s Hawaiian pizza? Do you mean a pizza with ham and pineapple that sometimes people call “Hawaiian” instead of “ham and pineapple”? I’m asking because place names and pizza are typically substantially more variable, e.g., “Chicago” or “New York” pizza.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/3 "2005-07-31T21:33:12Z")
I have no cite, but I’ve been told that it was originally a Pacific Northwest thing, and possibly even Canadian. (“Proper” Hawaiian pizza, if there is such a thing, is made with real back bacon, eh?)
(Isn’t a real Hawaiian pie a fruitless one with plenty of Spam on it?) 😃
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### Author:  [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/4 "2005-07-31T21:40:47Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#):
>
> I have no cite, but I’ve been told that it was originally a Pacific Northwest thing, and possibly even Canadian. (“Proper” Hawaiian pizza, if there is such a thing, is made with real back bacon, eh?)
>
> (Isn’t a real Hawaiian pie a fruitless one with plenty of Spam on it?) 😃
Spam, vienna sausages, canned corn beef and portuguese sausage ;j ;j ;j
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/5 "2005-07-31T21:43:14Z")
I first had a Hawaiian pizza, pineapple, ham, and onion, in the summer of 69 in some northern California beach town, possibly Crescent city.
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/6 "2005-07-31T21:51:54Z")
I can find newspaper cites from Alberta, Canada, and Ohio, in 1967, talking about Hawaiian Pizza.
The Ohio cite was from Hubbard(a very small town), and said it was on the lunch menu at school…
So far I didn’t find a contemporary cite as to what it was.
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### Author:  [@lhovis73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lhovis73)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/7 "2005-07-31T22:08:49Z")
I have no idea where Hawaiian pizza comes from, but as a general rule, if something is called “Hawaiian” in an American restaurant, then it’s almost certainly not from Hawaii, but probably comes from a non-Hawaiian’s concept of what Hawaiian food is like…
E.g.,
Chinese checkers
Chinese pie (what our family called that casserole with beef, potatoes, corn…pretty tasty, but not remotely Chinese)
Mexican pizza
German chocolate cake
Danish
etc.
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### Author:  [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/8 "2005-07-31T22:52:34Z")
> [@lhovis73](#):
>
> **Chinese pie** (what our family called that casserole with beef, potatoes,
> etc.
Shepard’s Pie? With the potatoes on top?
Yum.
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### Author:  [@lhovis73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lhovis73)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/9 "2005-07-31T23:50:24Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Originally Posted by **FilmGeek**
>
> Shepard’s Pie? With the potatoes on top?
>
> Yum.
Yes, shepherd’s pie (I was trying to remember what the more common name for it was…thanks.) Though from now on, I’m going to call it Hawaiian pie (it’s just as Hawaiian as it is Chinese, right?)
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### Author:  [@Rhubarb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhubarb)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/10 "2005-07-31T23:54:22Z")
I had my first “Hawaiian” pizza at Shakey’s Pizza in Wichita Falls, Texas circa 1973. I never saw anything remotely like it in Hawaii.
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### Author:  [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/11 "2005-07-31T23:54:57Z")
> [@lhovis73](#):
>
> Yes, shepherd’s pie (I was trying to remember what the more common name for it was…thanks.) Though from now on, I’m going to call it Hawaiian pie (it’s just as Hawaiian as it is Chinese, right?)
I’ve never heard it called ‘Chinese’ pie in my life, is that just a family thing, or local to your area?
I can see ‘Hawaiian’ coming for the pizza, because pineapple = tropical = hawaii in a lot of people’s minds. But I can’t see anything particularly Chinese about Shepherd’s pie. I’d be more inclined to call it ‘Irish Pie’ if I were going on what region it could have conceivably come from.
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### Author:  [@lhovis73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lhovis73)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/12 "2005-08-01T00:04:08Z")
(Sorry, this has nothing to do with Hawaiian pizza, but I wanted to get to the bottom of this…)
> **[Pâté chinois](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pate_Chinois)**
>
> Pâté chinois (pronounced \[pɑte ʃinwa\]) ("Chinese Pie" in French) is a French Canadian dish similar to the English shepherd's pie or French hachis Parmentier. It is a traditional recipe in both Québécois cuisine and Acadian cuisine.\[citation needed\]
> The dish is made with layered ground beef (sometimes mixed with sautéed diced onions) on the bottom layer, canned corn (either whole-kernel, creamed, or a mixture) for the middle layer, and mashed potatoes on top. Seasonings may be added to the top. V...
I’m from New Hampshire, and after reading this entry, it makes sense that my (mother’s) family calls it Chinese pie, since they’re French Canadian…
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### Author:  [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2005, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/13 "2005-08-01T00:07:51Z")
Well there you go. Thanks for linkage, it makes a bit more sense now.
And now, back to pizza!
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/14 "2005-08-01T02:15:24Z")
> [@lhovis73](#):
>
> (Sorry, this has nothing to do with Hawaiian pizza, but I wanted to get to the bottom of this…)
>
> [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pate\_Chinois](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pate_Chinois)
>
> I’m from New Hampshire, and after reading this entry, it makes sense that my (mother’s) family calls it Chinese pie, since they’re French Canadian…
I think the Wikipedia entry is written without a shred of evidence, as are many of their articles.
There is NO evidence that corn was ever an ingredient in the American version of Shepherd’s Pie. If it was, show me a cite going back to the turn of the 20th century.
I’d also like a contemporary cite for _pate chinois_. Can anyone show me this in the late 1800’s-early 1900’s? When does it first appear?
I’m not saying that corn wasn’t an ingredient in French Canadian pie, but it WASN’T in the US, in general.
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### Author:  [@lhovis73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lhovis73)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/15 "2005-08-01T04:09:26Z")
Um…I just lent my Oxford History of Shepherd’s Pie to a friend, so I’ll have to get back to you on your questions…
😛
(I wasn’t making any historical claims about shepherd or Chinese pie, and I’m not in a position to show you anything…just wanted to point out that people from my neck of the woods call that stuff Chinese pie…in the 20th and 21st centuries…)
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### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/16 "2005-08-01T04:21:14Z")
> [@lhovis73](#):
>
> (I wasn’t making any historical claims about shepherd or Chinese pie, and I’m not in a position to show you anything…just wanted to point out that people from my neck of the woods call that stuff Chinese pie…in the 20th and 21st centuries…)
Sorry. Didn’t mean to come on strong. I appreciate you chiming in. Glad to have the local info. And the Wiki cite, which I would never have searched for.
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### Author:  [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/17 "2005-08-01T04:29:40Z")
> [@lhovis73](#):
>
> I have no idea where Hawaiian pizza comes from, but as a general rule, if something is called “Hawaiian” in an American restaurant, then it’s almost certainly not from Hawaii, but probably comes from a non-Hawaiian’s concept of what Hawaiian food is like…
>
> E.g.,
> Chinese checkers
> Chinese pie (what our family called that casserole with beef, potatoes, corn…pretty tasty, but not remotely Chinese)
> Mexican pizza
> German chocolate cake
> Danish
> etc.
FYI, German chocolate cake isn’t named that way as an allusion to the country; it’s from the brand name of the baking chocolate.
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### Author:  [@djmont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/djmont)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/18 "2013-04-06T00:41:21Z")
> [@samclem](#):
>
> I think the Wikipedia entry is written without a shred of evidence, as are many of their articles.
>
> There is NO evidence that corn was ever an ingredient in the American version of Shepherd’s Pie. If it was, show me a cite going back to the turn of the 20th century.
>
> I’d also like a contemporary cite for _pate chinois_. Can anyone show me this in the late 1800’s-early 1900’s? When does it first appear?
>
> I’m not saying that corn wasn’t an ingredient in French Canadian pie, but it WASN’T in the US, in general.
My mother came from england in 1948 and my mother in law is French Canadian. Both women make Shepherds pie with cream corn. also French Canadians seem to call anything with Soya Sauce in it “Chinese” I do add Soya Sauce to my beef in Shepherds Pie-- So…?
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### Author:  [@djmont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/djmont)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/19 "2013-04-06T01:05:04Z")
Online origins range from the Satellite Restaurant in Chatam Ontario, to Queensland Australia to Germany-originating from a sandwich, and even back to Italy itself. It may stay a mystery. But my personal bet would be California. The have odd tastes -are originators of veggie or fruit based foods and would have access to lots of pineapple and canadian bacon is a popular food of the USA but not eaten as a rule in Canada–unless at McDonalds! Oh speaking of McDonalds and Canada they made a GREAT pizza for a few years.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hawaiian-pizza-origin/315038/20 "2013-04-06T01:17:04Z")
Doesn’t really matter. The proper pizza has pineapple and **pepperoni.**
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