# HBO's "OZ". Did it get ever... well...get good? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [July 19, 2006, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138 "2006-07-19T06:20:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/1 "2006-07-19T06:20:48Z")
HBO has started replaying OZ from the begining and I’ve managed to catch a lot of it having missed it the first go 'round. I have to say… It kind of sucks. Ham fisted directing. Trite stories. LOST’s Michael’s to the camera bits are almost embarassing to watch. Did it improve over time? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/2 "2006-07-19T12:05:41Z")
If by “improve over time” you mean “increase the amount of full-frontal male nudity” then, well, no unfortunately. It got progressively less naked as time went by and the lack of nudity made it almost unwatchable. ---
**Author:** ![cactus\_waltz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@cactus\_waltz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cactus_waltz)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/3 "2006-07-19T12:11:44Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > If by “improve over time” you mean “increase the amount of full-frontal male nudity” then, well, no unfortunately. It got progressively less naked as time went by and the lack of nudity made it almost unwatchable. I felt like it progressed into more male nudity as well as more violence and shocking scenes and some more violence again. I agree that Augustus’s narrative scenes are embarrassing. they have a point, but it’s not as well executed as it should have been. I do think the cast has some interesting characters, namely Adebisi and Schillinger. Both very well casted. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/4 "2006-07-19T13:02:43Z")
> [@cactus waltz](#): > > I felt like it progressed into more male nudity as well as more violence and shocking scenes and some more violence again. I didn’t see the first couple of seasons but I thought that for the last couple the inmates stayed far too dressed far too often. Couple that with storylines like “death row fashion shoot” and “ghostly preacher man” and the dreadful just keeps on coming. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/5 "2006-07-19T14:34:21Z")
My husband, who works in a prison, hated this show with a burning passion. I once caught part of an interview with the (idrector? producer? I’m not sure which). He was talking about how he wanted to show what life in prison was “really like” and how much research he had put into it. _Liar!_ It seems like he made note of the fact there are fences around the place and then made up his own little world. An inmate gets walled up behind a refrigerator, and no one evern notices he’s missing? People get killed right and left every day and there isn’t even a lockdown or any attempt to discover who did it? Employees keeping bottles of whiskey in their desk drawers and having sex whenever/wherever the urge takes them? A “maximum security” prison with very little security? The sad thing is, they didn’t have to get stupid with it. There’s plenty of drama, intrigue and compelling story lines in prisons as they really are. I understand artistic license, and when I started watching it, I was fully willing to make some allowences for drama, but _day-um_! It bore no resemblance to any prison I’ve ever even heard of. ---
**Author:** ![ShelliBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@ShelliBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShelliBean)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/6 "2006-07-19T15:02:29Z")
I liked it. Yeah, I said it. I liked Oz. And I know I couldn’t be the only one, because it did run for something like five seasons. Is it realistic? No, probably not. but I like House too and I doubt most hosptials have a drug addict with an attitude telling the top administrators what to do on a daily basis when he’s not breaking into people’s homes. The trick is to watch it as a soap opera that just happens to be set in prison, not a prison drama. It’s like seeing the entire cast of L&O:SVU in different roles. If you hate it just a few shows in, I wouldn’t hold out much hope though. It’s probably not for you. I did think it went downhill in the later seasons and quit watching. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/7 "2006-07-19T15:14:41Z")
OZ is my favorite TV show ever. I just think the actors were brilliant, and there were multiple layers to the storytelling – lots of political, ethical, religious subtextual development. OZ is one of those shows you either get or you don’t – people who get it love it, people who don’t, well, just see it as a show about naked men beating each other up. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/8 "2006-07-19T15:42:52Z")
I liked Oz as a fun morality tale but I didn’t believe for a second that it had anything to do with reality. As one poster put it in another thread, when discussing all the unsolved murders, they have all the crime scene, murder weapon and the suspects all in the same building yet they can never actually solve the murder. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/9 "2006-07-19T15:50:01Z")
OZ wasn’t a murder mystery show, though. Yes, murders were rampant (much more so than in most real prisons) but a good part of the point was that the authorities in charge either didn’t care enough to investigate properly, or were bogged down by political agendas or their own personal prejudices. Ex: during the riot, Officer Wittlesey gunned down a prisoner, Scott Ross, who had been blackmailing her. Her boss, McManus, found out about it but never pursued it because of his previous romantic involvement with her (and because no one really much missed a slimeball like Ross, except his sister a little bit). ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/10 "2006-07-19T17:22:21Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > OZ is one of those shows you either get or you don’t – people who get it love it, people who don’t, well, just see it as a show about naked men beating each other up. Man, I love it when fans of a show condescendingly dismiss those who don’t like it by saying they “don’t get it.” Like it’s impossible to understand something and, while understanding it, still think it’s crap. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/11 "2006-07-19T17:33:19Z")
> [@ShelliBean](#): > > It’s like seeing the entire cast of L&O:SVU in different roles. That’s the game the Wife and I play when we watched Oz. Spotting the L & O people and identifying which episode they were the bad guys or lawyers in. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/12 "2006-07-19T17:58:38Z")
I liked it from the first, but like **Lochdale** said, it wasn’t reality. I don’t think it was intended to be taken as reality, hence the name. Oz might be short for Oswald, but the mythical Oz fits. If you can’t suspend disbelief, you probably won’t like it. When’s the final season going to be on DVD? Anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/13 "2006-07-19T20:13:35Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Man, I love it when fans of a show condescendingly dismiss those who don’t like it by saying they “don’t get it.” Like it’s impossible to understand something and, while understanding it, still think it’s crap. **Otto** , I don’t care one way or the other if you liked OZ or not. I didn’t feel I was being condescending at all, OZ wasn’t to everyone’s taste. I never much liked _Sopranos_ myself, doesn’t mean I was too stupid to appreciate it or that it was a bad show, it just didn’t appeal to me. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/14 "2006-07-19T20:17:31Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I liked it from the first, but like **Lochdale** said, it wasn’t reality. I don’t think it was intended to be taken as reality, hence the name. Oz might be short for Oswald, but the mythical Oz fits. The thing about OZ, that I think confused lots of people, is that it was never meant to be an accurate representation of prison life. It’s more like taking every situation that could possibly happen in a prison, and having it all happen at once. It’s not a documentary, it’s a show about human nature set against an extreme enviroment. OZ was like a prison documentary the way _MacBeth_ is a documentary about a husband and wife. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/15 "2006-07-19T20:46:36Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > The thing about OZ, that I think confused lots of people, is that it was never meant to be an accurate representation of prison life. It’s more like taking every situation that could possibly happen in a prison, and having it all happen at once. It’s not a documentary, it’s a show about human nature set against an extreme enviroment. OZ was like a prison documentary the way _MacBeth_ is a documentary about a husband and wife. But I remember seeing one of the directors or producers or writers or something-or-other in an interview where they were talking about how much “research” they had put into the show, which leads me to believe that they wanted it to be taken seriously. I did a quick search. [Here](http://www.leetergesen.com/press/apbnews.htm), creator Tom Fontana says: > [@](#): > > That sensation of being cut off from family and friends hit Fontana the hardest when he was doing research by visiting prisons on and off for two years. > > \ > > Fontana talked to inmates as well as personnel, “just trying to get the essence of prison life.” And although he says he hasn’t depicted their actual stories, certain elements have worked their way onto the screen. [Here’s](http://www.liveworld.com/transcripts/Boxtop/7-14-1998.1-2.html) an interview with one of the actors: > [@](#): > > Esmerelda: How accurate do you think OZ portrays the US Prison system? > > Ernie Hudson: I know that most of the incidents, if not all of them, are things that have actually happened in various prisons. Tom Fontana did a lot of research, so I know it’s not far-fetched. How accurate it is I can’t say, because I’ve never served time in prison, but of all the shows I’ve seen, it’s as close to reality as anything I’ve seen. And I’ve met people who’ve served time, and they say it’s pretty close to what goes on. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/16 "2006-07-19T21:36:38Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > The thing about OZ, that I think confused lots of people, is that it was never meant to be an accurate representation of prison life. Please. That’s like saying people who didn’t like _Ally McBeal_ only did so because they thought it was an accurate portrayal of the legal system. I didn’t care that too much that the storylines became increasingly unrealistic because some of the characters like Shillinger and Adebisi were so damn fun to watch. The “anyone can die at any time” principal was amusing, too, rather like a extended slasher flick. But I think I really lost patience when Beecher was facing parole and had scenes of it being granted and him driving happily away from Oswald with his attractive lawyer and… oops! It’s all just a dream! Parole denied! Tom Fontana had taken a show that was fairly innovative and fallen back on the oldest, hoariest, dumbest, most audience-fucking-with cliché in cinematic history and I just stopped caring any longer (the “I love Ryan O’Reily” scene was close, but survivable, since the doctor character’s life was too much of a soap-opera sideshow to give a damn about). I only caught bits and pieces of the final season and out of curiosity read a summary of the final episode. I’m confident I didn’t miss anything worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/17 "2006-07-19T22:44:10Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > But I remember seeing one of the directors or producers or writers or something-or-other in an interview where they were talking about how much “research” they had put into the show, which leads me to believe that they wanted it to be taken seriously. > > I did a quick search. > > [Here](http://www.leetergesen.com/press/apbnews.htm), creator Tom Fontana says: > [Here’s](http://www.liveworld.com/transcripts/Boxtop/7-14-1998.1-2.html) an interview with one of the actors: Research was done, yes – but Fontana himself talked about gleaming ideas, lingo, etc. from visiting prisons more than sticking to it strictly in the interest of accuracy. A show that sharply adhered to the realities of life in most prisons would be pretty boring, anyway – lots of sitting around, griping at each other, playing card games, working in the prison factories, etc. For example, Fontana was talking about OZ’s use of the term “prag”, sex slave. Different prisons have different terms for this, and they change constantly. Trying to change the word to keep up would be both confusing and dating. So he just made up a word and had the characters stick to it. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/18 "2006-07-19T22:49:31Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Please. That’s like saying people who didn’t like _Ally McBeal_ only did so because they thought it was an accurate portrayal of the legal system. I didn’t care that too much that the storylines became increasingly unrealistic because some of the characters like Shillinger and Adebisi were so damn fun to watch. The “anyone can die at any time” principal was amusing, too, rather like a extended slasher flick. Then why is the first thing people brought up in this thread OZ’s inaccuracy? Obviously, _someone_ watched it expecting to be schooled in the realities of prison life and were disappointed when OZ didn’t accomplish this. If you want to know about life inside a real maximum-security prison, go watch a documentary or ask an ex-convict or hell, commit some major crime and you’ll find out. You don’t watch _Ally McBeal_ to get tips for your next trial, and you don’t watch OZ expecting to learn what’s it’s like on the inside. It’s _fiction_. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/19 "2006-07-19T23:08:11Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > Then why is the first thing people brought up in this thread OZ’s inaccuracy? Obviously, _someone_ watched it expecting to be schooled in the realities of prison life and were disappointed when OZ didn’t accomplish this. Your conclusion does not follow from your premise. And actually, the very first criticisms that were brought up were hamfisted direction, “trite” (not “inaccurate”) storylines and embarrassingly bad direct-to-camera narration. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2006, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138/20 "2006-07-19T23:22:02Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > Then why is the first thing people brought up in this thread OZ’s inaccuracy? Because presumably, that’s why they don’t like _Oz_. I’m pointing out that there are other reasons, completely different from whether or not prison life is accurately modeled, why _OZ_ can be disliked by reasonable people. In addition to the dream sequence (which I view as a great big “Fuck You” to the audience) the show began relying more and more on shock value and characters _determined_ to act like idiots. Examples: [ul][li]The whole Desmond Mobé thing. He’s an undercover cop, with apparently no oversight whatsoever. He gets hooked on smack, kills a guy, then gets arrested and sent to… Oz, of course.[/li][li]We’ve got a few hundred Chinese illegal immigrants! Where can we house them? A state maximum-security prison? Great idea! And let’s buy the prisoners a brand new nail-gun! Great idea![/li][li]O’Reily: So, Officer Howell, do you love me?[/li]Howell: Sure. O’Reily: So, would you give a guy handjob and then drop a hair-dryer into his tub for me? Howell: Sure.[/ul] Gotta admit, these are pretty preposterous. I’m willing to suspend my disbelief a _lot_, but geez… Trivia note: Rita Moreno won an emmy for her guest-shot on a first-season episode of _The Muppet Show_, which featured the voice of Frank Oz. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hbos-oz-did-it-get-ever-well-get-good/365138.md?page=2)