# He becoming She: How's it done? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 4, 2004, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284 "2004-08-04T14:00:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/41 "2004-08-06T18:39:46Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > If you want to demand tolerance, respect, and sensitivity, it shouldn’t only apply to situations you identify with or agree with. At least show others the respect you require. Yeah, _riiiiiight_. Like an “ex-gay” who says, “I’m straight! I’m gay! I’m straight! I’m gay! I’m straight! I’m gay!” and purports to represent the gay community. These people do not deserve respect, they deserve the back of my hand. Especially since they confuse the issue for _certain gullible and ill-informed members of the general public_. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/42 "2004-08-06T18:51:32Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Yeah, _riiiiiight_. Like an “ex-gay” who says, “I’m straight! I’m gay! I’m straight! I’m gay! I’m straight! I’m gay!” and purports to represent the gay community. These people do not deserve respect, they deserve the back of my hand. Especially since they confuse the issue for _certain gullible and ill-informed members of the general public_. Anne Heche is only person I can think of that did something like this, and she’s not “batshit crazy”… oh wait… she is… never mind. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/43 "2004-08-06T19:52:55Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Anne Heche is only person I can think of that did something like this, and she’s not “batshit crazy”… oh wait… she is… never mind. Actually, it always seemed to me that Heche’s “indecision” was a rather calculated set of career moves on her part. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/44 "2004-08-06T20:07:36Z")
Transexuals are generally considered to have gender dyshporia/ gender identity disorder/ a few other similar names. The only recognized treatment for this is hormone replacement therapy and surgery. A person who seeks hrt and srs because- their rommate is getting one and she’s just so cool, mom and dad always wanted a son, they think it will change them from a gay man to a straight woman, God\ the aliens from planet X 79\ Jodie Foster told them to do it, etc do not have gender dysphoria. They have other problem’s which require different treatments. The Harry Benjamin standards of care require counseling and living for a year as the destination gender. No reputable surgeon would perform srs on a patient who can’t produce all the properly signed and notarized forms from the therapist, endocrinologist, etc. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/45 "2004-08-07T23:20:25Z")
> [@kwikwitty](#): > > … we cannot change someone’s category just because they want it changed. Why not? Why do labels matter so much? ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/46 "2004-08-07T23:23:57Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Kelly, how old are you? The reason I ask is that I wonder if there is an age where they would not want to do the surgery because you’ll be (obviously) less and less able to bounce back from the surgery. Or will they do it regardless of age, as long as your general health is OK. I’m in my mid-thirties, well below the age where this normally becomes a problem. The oldest person I’m aware of ever getting SRS was in her mid-eighties. Age itself is not a barrier, although certainly the infirmities of old age can present a problem. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/47 "2004-08-07T23:26:49Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > How are Dr. Meltzer and Dr. Shrang doing these days? (Those were the two hip-and-happening SRS doctors I heard about in the mid-1990s when I was dating two hermaphrodites. Apparently, all the cool transsexual kids were going to them at the time.) Dr. Meltzer is ridiculously expensive ($27,000 I think). Dr. Schrang is getting old and needs to retire. I’ve heard reports that a patient died in his care a while back, resulting in a suspension of his privileges and a severe falloff of applications (which has cut his waiting list to only a few months, and his fee has dropped as well). In addition, Dr. Schrang is a sexist bastard who feels entitled to slap his patients on the ass, and as such is not someone I wish to do business with. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/48 "2004-08-08T06:10:05Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Yeah, _riiiiiight_. Like an “ex-gay” who says, “I’m straight! I’m gay! I’m straight! I’m gay! I’m straight! I’m gay!” and purports to represent the gay community. These people do not deserve respect, they deserve the back of my hand. Especially since they confuse the issue for _certain gullible and ill-informed members of the general public_. Eve, I happen to know a fellow who at one point identified as a woman and began hormones (not surgery), but eventually realized he wasn’t a woman, but a genderqueer man. It so happened that he hadn’t realized that option was open. So yes, there are people who “change their minds,” so to speak, though to hear him tell it it was more a matter of an evolving identity. I agree with you (as does he) that he’s not transsexual, but I don’t think he’s crazy, either. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/49 "2004-08-08T06:52:02Z")
…To clarify, it IS misleading and exploitative for someone such as **kwikwitty** describes to present him/herself as having once been transsexual but not any longer, especially on TV. That’s not what my friend was doing (especially not the TV part… ;)) I guess the point is that not everyone who identifies as transsexual at one point and then ceases to do so is either deluded, crazy, or misleading others, nor do they present themselves as having somehow been “cured” of transsexuality or even as having really been transsexual in the first place. One problem is that for some people, transsexuality appears to be the only option other than strict gender normativity. Coupled with poor counselling, a person who might really be somewhere else in the broad spectrum of transgender/genderqueer might find themself persuaded that their only option was to go for SRS. That seems to be exactly **Eve** ’s point: such a person wasn’t transsexual to begin with. For the interest of others, [here’s](http://www.symposion.com/ijt/ijtc0502.htm) an article from the _International Journal of Transgenderism_ about retransition. The article makes the points that 1) of those who have SRS, those who want to transition back make up a tiny fraction, and 2) their reasons for wanting to do so are highly diverse. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/50 "2004-08-08T07:05:41Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > True. But if it happens to be one of those lip-syncers that they had on _Puttin’ on the Hits_ in the '80’s who’s Diana Ross on one side and Stevie Wonder on the other, and they rotate back and forth, that’s pretty cool. > > What? I _saw_ that episode. Damn, that really makes me feel _ **old** _. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/51 "2004-08-08T07:08:04Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Yeah, _riiiiiight_. Like an “ex-gay” who says, “I’m straight! I’m gay! I’m straight! I’m gay! I’m straight! I’m gay!” and purports to represent the gay community. These people do not deserve respect, they deserve the back of my hand. Especially since they confuse the issue for _certain gullible and ill-informed members of the general public_. I would like to offer my services as the social secretary to the back of your hand. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/52 "2004-08-08T15:10:58Z")
> [@KellyM](#): > > Why not? Why do labels matter so much? Because they are one of the basic ways in which the human mind organizes the world. Two of the most basic labels are male and female. This is one of the reasons that transexuals and intersexed people are treated so badly. In order to accept them as they are, people have to redefine categories and labels they’ve used to organize the world since they were four. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/53 "2004-08-08T15:58:20Z")
I hope that’s not being presented as a reason those categories **shouldn’t** be changed, rather than a reason why it’s **difficult** to do. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/54 "2004-08-08T16:08:45Z")
I’m surprised there is any question of my intent. To quote the Doctor “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don’t alter their views to the facts. They alter the facts to fit their views.” ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/55 "2004-08-08T16:38:23Z")
I was pretty sure… I just didn’t want to leave it open to interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/56 "2004-08-08T17:31:14Z")
> [@KellyM](#): > > In addition, Dr. Schrang is a sexist bastard who feels entitled to slap his patients on the ass, Hmmm … I hadn’t heard about these incidents, and I certainly don’t know any of the details about them or their context – but maybe, Schrang grew up at a time when slapping a woman on the butt was a way of showing her you thought she was sexy. Schrang may have actually been trying to give his M-to-F patients confidence that they were “hot babes” instead of “ugly masculine-looking lumps of surgically-altered flesh.” ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/57 "2004-08-08T17:35:03Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > …To clarify, it IS misleading and exploitative for someone such as **kwikwitty** describes to present him/herself as having once been transsexual but not any longer, especially on TV. > > That’s not what my friend was doing (especially not the TV part… ;)) You might want to avoid using “TV” as an abbreviation for “television” in a thread like this one. When I read that last sentence, I at first thought you were referring to the other kind of TV. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/58 "2004-08-08T18:37:03Z")
Forgive my curiosity, but… > [@](#): > > most patients will experience sensation and a sizable fraction are capable of orgasm post-surgically; the specifics vary with technique. How much of the male plumbing is left behind? Obviously the testes are removed, but presumably the prostate is still there. Does that mean that post-surgery patients can ejaculate? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/59 "2004-08-09T01:51:39Z")
There are some nerves that run **along** the prostate that control erection in men, but these nerves aren’t part of the prostate itself (and can be preserved in a prostate cancer operation, if the surgeon uses a bloodless field). ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/60 "2004-08-09T02:04:41Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > How much of the male plumbing is left behind? Obviously the testes are removed, but presumably the prostate is still there. Does that mean that post-surgery patients can ejaculate? The prostate is not normally removed, and it is not unheard-of for post-ops to experience a form of emission from what remains of the prostate. However, the prostate shrinks dramatically on hormones (my doctor tells me that he can no longer find mine), as does volume of ejaculate. Also, while the prostate itself (what’s left of it) is intact, the muscles that squeeze the ejaculate out are normally disrupted enough that any such ejaculation will be more of an oozing than the vigorous shooting that one might be more likely to expect. Furthermore, since the testes are gone, along with the Cowper’s glands, such ejaculate will be considerably different in characteristic, and actually more closely resembles the vaginal secretions of a born woman than it does semen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284.md?page=4)