# He becoming She: How's it done? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 4, 2004, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284 "2004-08-04T14:00:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/101 "2004-08-11T18:16:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Err - didn’t the idea of **Eve** saying that someone who was confused about their gender was “bat-shit crazy” strike you as a teeny bit ironic? No. Transsexuals are not confused about their gender. If I put my left shoe on my right foot, it will feel wrong. It may be confusing because, well, one doesn’t put one’s left shoe on one’s right foot. But once I realize that it’s simply the wrong shoe, the confusion ends. **Eve** may have suffered some confusion before she understood her situation. But she doesn’t suffer from any confusion now. ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/102 "2004-08-11T19:02:38Z")
Thank you, **matt\_mcl** and **DocCathode**. > [@KellyM](#): > > There is a difference between pointing out that something is (or may be) offensive, and taking offense. Fair enough, although I have seen both happen. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/103 "2004-08-11T19:05:43Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > No. > > Transsexuals are not confused about their gender. > > If I put my left shoe on my right foot, it will feel wrong. It may be confusing because, well, one doesn’t put one’s left shoe on one’s right foot. But once I realize that it’s simply the wrong shoe, the confusion ends. > > **Eve** may have suffered some confusion before she understood her situation. But she doesn’t suffer from any confusion now. I didn’t say **Eve** was confused. **Eve** said the person who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery, and then changed back, was “bat-shit crazy”, because _that person_ was confused about his/her gender. What’s the line here? Wanting to change sexes once is normal and cannot be questioned, but wanting to change twice is absolute proof that one is “bat-shit crazy” and deserves to be hit? :rolleyes: Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/104 "2004-08-11T19:50:42Z")
Jumping around from some of the sites linked here (I wasn’t interested in the mechanics of reverting a penis inside out any more than I am interested in watching TLC’s Operation) I found one that nailed me to my seat for hours. It was [Dr. Rebbeca Allison](http://www.drbecky.com/realintro.html)’s story. She exlains her journey to self-discovery as a woman. In her story she explains that being as a boy she knew she was different, but it wasn’t like other people that I’ve read about, she didn’t thought herself as a woman, although from a young age she enjoyed dressing with women’s clothes. She got married, had a child and accepted herself as a crossdresser convinced that what was what she was. She never felt fulfilled and her marriage of 25 years collapsed when her wife just refused to accept her as a crossdresser. At some point she decided that she wasn’t really a heterosexual male crossdresser but a transexual. The discovery led to her giving up everything in the pursue of her true self: a heterosexual woman. 49 years of confusion left behind. Dr. Allison is clearly not crazy to me. And I trust the medical stablisment would not leave a crazy cardiologist to continue working. I am sure some of the people around her thought that she (or he in their minds) was indeed batshit crazy. Her confussion doesn’t appear lesser to me than that the man mentioned by the OP. IMHO of course. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/105 "2004-08-11T20:48:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What’s the line here? Wanting to change sexes once is normal and cannot be questioned, but wanting to change twice is absolute proof that one is “bat-shit crazy” and deserves to be hit? Simply enough, yes. (Not about deserving to be hit, but about being mentally ill.) If you have SRS more than once, you are suffering with something other than the specific disorder SRS is designed to treat. If SRS doesn’t treat the disorder, something other than gender identity disorder is the culprit–an unidentified mental illness. If someone is poor, they may think winning the lottery would make them happy. So, if they win the lottery and still aren’t happy, that demonstrates that poverty wasn’t the cause of the unhappiness. Something else is. (Though I suppose it could be possible that someone needs to be something between physically male and physically female to be comfortable in their own skin. I don’t know enough about the subject to say.) ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/106 "2004-08-11T21:15:13Z")
\*\*jsgoddess \*\* I don’t know about your qualifications, but in the same post you say that you ‘don’t know much about the subject’ but still positevely believe that the person is indeed ‘mentally ill’. I would believe that I would not categorially say that he is mentally ill, since I don’t have any qualifications or enough information to do so. I accept that sometimes we can definitely say that someone is absolutely batshit crazy without the need of a medical degree. I happen to know someone that is undeniably batshit crazy, and dangerous on ocassions. But without hearing more about the case mentioned by the OP I don’t think any of us is in any position of saying that his confussion = mental illness. Perhaps he is, perhaps he is a good candidate for a pre-frontal lobotomy, but none of us \*know \* that. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/107 "2004-08-11T22:51:18Z")
The reason why I think that the guy we’ve been referring to as bat-shit crazy is bat-shit crazy is that the British National Health System has said he’s mentally ill and should not have been allowed to have surgery. The doctor who signed off on his surgery (Russell Reid of London) is likely to lose his licence over this case, and he’s being sued for malpractice for failing to spot that his patient was bat-shit crazy. It has nothing to do with the fact that he’s transitioned twice; it has everything to do with the simple fact that he’s bat-shit crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/108 "2004-08-11T23:03:49Z")
> [@KellyM](#): > > The reason why I think that the guy we’ve been referring to as bat-shit crazy is bat-shit crazy is that the British National Health System has said he’s mentally ill and should not have been allowed to have surgery. The doctor who signed off on his surgery (Russell Reid of London) is likely to lose his licence over this case, and he’s being sued for malpractice for failing to spot that his patient was bat-shit crazy. It has nothing to do with the fact that he’s transitioned twice; it has everything to do with the simple fact that he’s bat-shit crazy. This thread would be a one-page long only had we known that. In light of this new revelations I will abide by Dr. Eve’s diagnosis 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/109 "2004-08-12T00:16:20Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Klinefelter’s Syndrome is a male who is XXY. These men have a feminine distribution of body fat and are sterile. Turner’s Syndrome is XO. “XO”? What kind of sex chromosome is an “O”? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/110 "2004-08-12T00:17:57Z")
> [@KellyM](#): > > The reason why I think that the guy we’ve been referring to as bat-shit crazy is bat-shit crazy is that the British National Health System has said he’s mentally ill and should not have been allowed to have surgery. Then again, this is the same British National Health System that completely refused to recognize the existence of transexuality until very recently. (At least, according to Intersex Person #1 whom I dated back in 1994.) ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/111 "2004-08-12T00:34:49Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > “XO”? What kind of sex chromosome is an “O”? O represents the missing chromosome. Someone who’s XO has only one sex chromosome, an X. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/112 "2004-08-12T01:23:32Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > Then again, this is the same British National Health System that completely refused to recognize the existence of transexuality until very recently. NHS has been doing reassignments at state expense for some years now. The problem with NHS isn’t acceptance of transsexuality, but rather unwillingness to spend money, and they make it extremely hard to navigate the system as a cost-cutting measure. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/113 "2004-08-12T12:58:00Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Simply enough, yes. (Not about deserving to be hit, but about being mentally ill.) > > If you have SRS more than once, you are suffering with something other than the specific disorder SRS is designed to treat. If SRS doesn’t treat the disorder, something other than gender identity disorder is the culprit–an unidentified mental illness. > > If someone is poor, they may think winning the lottery would make them happy. So, if they win the lottery and still aren’t happy, that demonstrates that poverty wasn’t the cause of the unhappiness. Something else is. > > (Though I suppose it could be possible that someone needs to be something between physically male and physically female to be comfortable in their own skin. I don’t know enough about the subject to say.) That’s a fair point, but it does rather imply that anyone who has gender confusion issues that cannot be treated surgically is “bat-shit crazy”. At least according to the definition under discussion. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/114 "2004-08-12T13:15:43Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > That’s a fair point, but it does rather imply that anyone who has gender confusion issues that cannot be treated surgically is “bat-shit crazy”. At least according to the definition under discussion. I don’t know that we can say this person has gender confusion issues. He has issues. He thought the solution was SRS (at least, I hope he genuinely thought so). That wasn’t the solution. Perhaps he simply latched onto the wrong thing entirely, thinking he has gender issues when really he’s got gas. Because I think we _can_ say that he wasn’t properly diagnosed from the outset. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/115 "2004-08-12T17:19:04Z")
> [@KellyM](#): > > NHS has been doing reassignments at state expense for some years now. The problem with NHS isn’t acceptance of transsexuality, but rather unwillingness to spend money, and they make it extremely hard to navigate the system as a cost-cutting measure. Hmmm … that’s odd. According to Intersex Person #1, British law traditionally failed to recognize the concept of a legal change in gender. If you were pronounced a male at birth, you were considered a male under the law for the rest of your life regardless of any surgery you got. A post-op M-to-F transexual could even be jailed for using a Women’s bathroom. Then again, Intersex Person #1 wasn’t British herself, and had an unfortunate tendency to believe and repeat outlandish stories without checking them out first. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/116 "2004-08-12T20:44:32Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > Hmmm … that’s odd. According to Intersex Person #1, British law traditionally failed to recognize the concept of a legal change in gender. If you were pronounced a male at birth, you were considered a male under the law for the rest of your life regardless of any surgery you got. A post-op M-to-F transexual could even be jailed for using a Women’s bathroom. It is true that British law did not recognize a person who has been reassigned as a member of his or her new sex until just this year (with the adoption of the Gender Reconciliation Bill). This does not mean that British NHS doesn’t recognize transsexuality, but rather that the British legal system did not accept transsexuality as a basis for recognizing a change of legal sex. Do not confuse the NHS with the courts. It should be noted that about half of American states also refuse to recognize a change of sex for transsexuals, but that people from all fifty states nonetheless manage to obtain reassignment surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/117 "2004-08-13T12:22:15Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > I happen to know a fellow who at one point identified as a woman and began hormones (not surgery), but eventually realized he wasn’t a woman, but a genderqueer man. I’m not sure I’m familiar with that term, **matt\_mcl**. Could you define? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284/118 "2004-08-14T04:42:11Z")
Check on page 2, **Fiver** ; there’s some discussion of “genderqueer” there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-becoming-she-hows-it-done/258284.md?page=5)