# he Chronicles of Narnia: Good Adult read? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 4, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282 "2005-02-04T00:35:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/41 "2005-02-04T15:48:54Z")
I’m in the “you can’t go back” camp. I loved LOVED these as a kid, but upon trying to re-read them recently I was overwhelmed by the religious themes. Geez, if I want to read the bible, I’ll read the bible, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/42 "2005-02-04T15:56:18Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > Very little of the books are allegorical I can’t agree. I love the Narnia books, atheist though I am. But in reading LW&W about a year ago I found that basically every scene with Aslan would have read the same with Jesus in the role. I’m thinking in particular here of the scene right before Aslan’s crucifixtion where he plays with the despondant Lucy and Susan and they become much less depressed. The idea of the faituful taking solace in God’s presence even in the face of overwhelming misfortune is one I’ve heard believers speak about frequently. Then, of course, there’s Edmund, who does a heck of a lot of evil in that first book, but as soon as he asks for forgiveness it’s immediately granted with no repercussions for what he’s done. An unequivocally Christian view of forgiveness. I’ve only read the first three recently, and it seemed that the allegorical nature dropped off considerably, but in that first book it’s very plain. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![FriendRob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecc23a/32.png) [@FriendRob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriendRob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/43 "2005-02-04T16:16:23Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > 1. Oh, there are a few hyper-fundies who regard them as evidence that Lewis was really an pagan/occultic infiltrator into C’nity. Lewis held that Paganism in its highest forms foreshadowed & were made complete in the coming of Jesus. I kinda think he may have actually believed in Elemental Beings which were neither human, angel or demon, but ultimately in need of submission to Christ. I agree - if you read his Science Fiction trilogy (_Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, That Hideous Strength_) he has lots of angelic beings (tho not called angels), and at the very end of THS there is a sort of fairy-tale-character who shows up who seems to be and Elemental of some sort. > [@Leviosaurus](#): > > But since the subject came up… anybody besides me think “The Last Battle” is a bit reactionary? Lewis and (his close friend) J.R.R. Tolkein both seem to have longed for the Return of the King - literally. But on the anti-Darwin thing: sorry, I just don’t buy it. And as far as the Narnia books, I re-read them regularly, even tho I stopped being a Christian long ago. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/44 "2005-02-04T16:25:22Z")
I first read them when I was in my twenties, and loved them, except for _The Last Battle_. I’ve kind of lost interest now, though it’s not because of the Christian allegory. It’s more because Lewis tends to say things, usually incidentally, that rub me the wrong way. An example, and one that disturbed me on my first reading, come in _The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe_, where Father Christmas shows up and, among other things, says “battles are ugly when women fight.” I thought then, and think now, that battles are pretty damned ugly when anybody fights. The books are full of things like that. The portrayal of a country (Calormen) that clearly follows some sort of pagan devil worship as being remarkably similar to the Ottoman empire has already been alluded to. I should mention, though, that Lewis doesn’t really go to town on Calormen until _The Last Battle_. _The Horse and His Boy_, which is set in Calormen, is the book that is least devoted to Christian apologetics, and IMO is the best story in the series. My distaste for _The Last Battle_ is quite strong. It’s a huge bummer of a story. It does, however, have about the clearest description of the CoE view of hell I’ve ever read. Anyway, aside from TLB, I recommend the series. It’s at least near-great children’s lit, and can hold an adult’s interest. Unlike, say, J.K. Rowling, Lewis knows how to move a story along. ---
**Author:** ![FriendRob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecc23a/32.png) [@FriendRob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriendRob)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/45 "2005-02-04T16:26:53Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > I’ve only read the first three recently, and it seemed that the allegorical nature dropped off considerably, but in that first book it’s very plain. > > –Cliffy Yes, TLTWATW is really the only allegorical one. It’s clearly a re-telling of the crucifixion, with Edmund in the role of Fallen Man. The others are certainly full of Christian themes, and The Magician’s Nephew is a Creation story, and The Last Battle is obviously an apocalypse based on Revelation. And yes, the Christian themes do kinda hit you over the head as an adult. But I still like them… ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/46 "2005-02-04T16:30:58Z")
Chalk me up as another who read them as a child and missed the allegory. It’s probably because I’m jewish, and at the time didn’t know much about christianity other than that “Jesus is the son of god and got crucified.” I’ve been meaning to reread now that I know more and see how oblivious I was… ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/47 "2005-02-04T17:20:10Z")
As you can see, the only answer to “Will an adult like them?” is “Well, some will and some won’t.” Which is what you can say about pretty much any other piece of fiction. Some children’s books will appeal to any given adult, some won’t, and there’s no rule about which ones will. You just have to read it and find out. Whether the Narnia books are allegorical is a very common debate. Search the SDMB database using the words “Lewis,” “Narnia,” and “allegory,” and you’ll find a bunch of threads about this subject. Basically it depends on what the word “allegory” means. I would distinguish between a strict allegory and a loose allegory. A strict allegory is something like _The Pilgrim’s Progress_, where nearly every character, place, and scene can be matched to a particular allegorical element. Clearly the Narnia books aren’t a strict allegory. In a loose allegory, although some characters, places, and scenes have allegorical references, in general the story is much freer than that with many characters, places, and scenes that have no allegorical reference. Perhaps the Narnia books are then a loose allegory. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/48 "2005-02-04T18:52:24Z")
Couple of thoughts while reading this thread: – While I have no problems with _The Last Battle_, I do think that Lewis’ treatment of Calormen in the whole series is an unfortunate product of Lewis’ culture. He makes liberal use of Arab/Muslim stereotypes to portray the folks of Calormen (with a few exceptions) as cruel, greedy, and heartless. The exceptions are Emeth in _LB_ and – only after she experiences Aslan – Shasta’s friend the Calormen princess (I want to call her Arwen, but that’s someone else 🙂 ) Frankly, I find it a little racist, but fortunately it doesn’t play a large role in most of the books. – Speaking of _The Last Battle_, I don’t find the Ape thing anti-Darwinian at all. What it does reflect is the common theme in Lewis that there is a natural order, and everyone has their part to play, and that you should not pretend or try to be something you are not. – Re: the Lion of Judah… the reasons Aslan was depicted as a Lion have been mentioned, but I will point out that he did in fact also appear as a lamb, at the end of _Voyage of the Dawn Treader_. At least that’s my recollection. I think he appeared as a lamb and then changed into a lion, IIRC. – _Dawn Treader_ is also my favorite in the series. I love the redemption of Eustace. I asked Mrs. Skammer if we could name our newborn son Eustace, but she kept changing the subject. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/49 "2005-02-04T19:11:18Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > – _Dawn Treader_ is also my favorite in the series. I love the redemption of Eustace. I asked Mrs. Skammer if we could name our newborn son Eustace, but she kept changing the subject. 🙂 Trumpkin: “The boy is _useless_, you say?!” ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/50 "2005-02-04T19:21:06Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Couple of thoughts while reading this thread: > > – While I have no problems with _The Last Battle_, I do think that Lewis’ treatment of Calormen in the whole series is an unfortunate product of Lewis’ culture. He makes liberal use of Arab/Muslim stereotypes to portray the folks of Calormen (with a few exceptions) as cruel, greedy, and heartless. The exceptions are Emeth in _LB_ and – only after she experiences Aslan – Shasta’s friend the Calormen princess (I want to call her Arwen, but that’s someone else 🙂 ) Frankly, I find it a little racist, but fortunately it doesn’t play a large role in most of the books. > > – Speaking of _The Last Battle_, I don’t find the Ape thing anti-Darwinian at all. What it does reflect is the common theme in Lewis that there is a natural order, and everyone has their part to play, and that you should not pretend or try to be something you are not. > > – Re: the Lion of Judah… the reasons Aslan was depicted as a Lion have been mentioned, but I will point out that he did in fact also appear as a lamb, at the end of _Voyage of the Dawn Treader_. At least that’s my recollection. I think he appeared as a lamb and then changed into a lion, IIRC. > > – _Dawn Treader_ is also my favorite in the series. I love the redemption of Eustace. I asked Mrs. Skammer if we could name our newborn son Eustace, but she kept changing the subject. 🙂 How did I forget the Lamb Appearance! :smack: Skammer- you’d have to make his middle name “Scrubb” also. And even Jack didn’t think that was a nice name to foist upon a child “There once was a boy named Eustace Scrubb and he almost deserved it.” Good call about the Carlomen. I fully expect some cleaning up of that for the movies. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/51 "2005-02-04T19:23:21Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > The exceptions are Emeth in _LB_ and – only after she experiences Aslan – Shasta’s friend the Calormen princess (I want to call her Arwen, but that’s someone else 🙂 ) Frankly, I find it a little racist, but fortunately it doesn’t play a large role in most of the books. Her name is Arvis, IIRC. Hey, wasn’t that the geek’s name on “Head of the Class”? [/aside] I found the Calormen people a bit of an 1900s Arab caricature, but that doesn’t make them bad books. Kipling gets pretty close to racist in a lot of his stuff, and you can make that argument about a lot of authors that wrote before 1960. Even Tolkien has evil people from a desert land. They are a product of their times, for better or for worse. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/52 "2005-02-04T19:42:42Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > – Re: the Lion of Judah… the reasons Aslan was depicted as a Lion have been mentioned, but I will point out that he did in fact also appear as a lamb, at the end of _Voyage of the Dawn Treader_. At least that’s my recollection. I think he appeared as a lamb and then changed into a lion, IIRC. Yes, that’s correct. It was at the very, very end, when they landed after leaving Reepicheep. And the Tarkheena’s name was Avaris. I didn’t think she was greedy and cruel, exactly, but massively lacking in empathy and charity. Also, Susan wasn’t barred from heaven because she liked makeup and boys. She wasn’t killed in the train crash, for one thing, which made it very difficult for her to be in heaven even if she had kept the faith. But she hadn’t kept the faith. She denied the existence of Narnia and Aslan, which was a metaphor for turning away from God. ---
**Author:** ![RitzyRae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@RitzyRae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitzyRae)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/53 "2005-02-04T20:39:35Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > Christmas of 1999, I participated in a gingerbread building display. I did my own version of the castle of Cair Paravel, decorated for Christmas. In one corner I even had a frozen stream, with a beaver lodge and a teeny Christmas tree topping it, with Mr. and Mrs Beaver looking it over. Won first prize in the professional category. > > Shoot, now Aslan is going to have to rebuke me for _my_ vanity, the way he did Reepicheep! Awesome! Got pics? Love **TCoN**! Read them first as a child, then later my family read them out to each other, then I read them again as a teenager. They have been on my reread list forever. Now, a bunch of my friends have reread them recently so the pressure is on! ---
**Author:** ![RitzyRae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@RitzyRae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitzyRae)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/54 "2005-02-04T20:43:43Z")
Oh yeah - I think they are making a new movie version. Anyone heard anything about it? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/55 "2005-02-04T20:46:28Z")
Quoth **PunditLisa** : > [@](#): > > I took this to mean that Lewis believed in an afterlife, but didn’t necessarily believe that you had to be a Christian to enjoy an afterlife. Not quite. You must be Christian to be saved, but what it means to be Christian isn’t necessarily what most folks think it means. According to Catholic theology, at least (and I’m pretty sure that this is also the Anglican view), anyone who loves his neighbor as himself, and who feeds the hungry, gives drink to the thirsty, clothes the naked, shelters the homeless, etc., is a Christian, regardless of whether that person has ever even heard of Jesus son of Mary. I enjoyed these books since before I could even read (which was pretty early on), and as of a year ago or so when last I read them, I still enjoyed them. I noticed also that there was a lot of subtlety I had missed as a child (though I did realize on first exposure that Aslan = Jesus, etc.), especially in _The Horse and his Boy_. Contrary to what **kelly5078** says, there’s quite a lot of Christian theology in that one, but it’s very subtle, and might not be apparent to a non-Christian reader. I think that, now that I understand it better, it’s my second-favorite (after _Voyage of the Dawn Treader_). I’ll agree that _The Last Battle_ is my least favorite of the books, but that’s mostly because of the very different style, and partly because, on some level, I don’t really want a final resolution of the series. But I didn’t pick up an anti-evolution theme at all. If anything, it seemed to me that he chose an ape for the anti-prophet precisely because an ape is so similar to a human. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/56 "2005-02-04T20:47:19Z")
First of all, if I recall correctly, the gir’s name is **Aravis**. Secondly, they are in fact making a movie of TLTWATW, a featurette about which can be found [here](http://www.apple.com/trailers/disney/the_chronicles_of_narnia.html). ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/57 "2005-02-04T20:59:39Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Her name is Arvis, IIRC. Hey, wasn’t that the geek’s name on “Head of the Class”? [/aside] \ I believe that was Arvid. nothing to see here, carry on… ---
**Author:** ![Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e36b37/32.png) [@Not\_A\_Tame\_Lion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_A_Tame_Lion)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/58 "2005-02-04T21:37:34Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > He’s not a _tame_ lion. No, he most certainly is not. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/59 "2005-02-04T23:01:52Z")
**RitzyRae** , I have lots of pictures of the Castle but I don’t have a scanner so I have no way to put them online. The beavers were my favorite part, really. Mr. Beaver has teeny glasses, and Mrs. Beaver is wearing an apron. They were molded out of candy clay which I tinted dark brown, and their tails are small, flat pieces of gingerbread. The castle itself had stained “glass” windows, and one of these had a stylized representation of a lion’s head. ---
**Author:** ![RitzyRae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@RitzyRae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitzyRae)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282/60 "2005-02-04T23:10:17Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > **RitzyRae** , I have lots of pictures of the Castle but I don’t have a scanner so I have no way to put them online. The beavers were my favorite part, really. Mr. Beaver has teeny glasses, and Mrs. Beaver is wearing an apron. They were molded out of candy clay which I tinted dark brown, and their tails are small, flat pieces of gingerbread. The castle itself had stained “glass” windows, and one of these had a stylized representation of a lion’s head. Truly a masterpiece I’m sure! I shall mourn the pics I can not see. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-chronicles-of-narnia-good-adult-read/288282.md?page=4)