# "He crossed state lines." **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 21, 2021, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705 "2021-11-21T04:49:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/1 "2021-11-21T04:49:32Z")
You can hardly find a discussion of the Kyle Rittenhouse trial & its aftermath that does not include this phrase. I’m genuinely curious about the meaning here. Probably tens of millions of people cross state lines every day - why is it getting such emphasis in this case? Your thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/2 "2021-11-21T04:53:11Z")
The Kyle Rittenhouse trial is symbolic and the warring ideologies are heavily invested in it. The left thinks that worrying about a border in this one instance that it makes an alleged crime even graver. It’s honestly exceedingly silly and disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/3 "2021-11-21T05:17:32Z")
Matt Taibbi recently wrote on [Substack](https://taibbi.substack.com/p/the-rittenhouse-verdict-is-only-shocking) about the ludicrousness of that line, because the kid lived a mile outside of Wisconsin. The language is clearly being used to imply premeditation. He was so motivated to kill, he crossed state lines to do it. He was an outsider stirring up trouble. Etc. ETA: I don’t know what to make of Taibbi yet. I’ve only been following him for a short time, and his commenters are bonkers. But he seems to be interested in serious journalism. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/4 "2021-11-21T05:22:49Z")
Because crossing state lines can often turn a state crime into a federal one, which can often bring in stronger penalties and things like the FBI up in your shit. For instance - had he taken his toy from Illinois to Wisconsin, he would have been violating Illinois state law regarding his possession (only for hunting or sporting) of the rifle, and thus would have broken federal law. Is it a nothingburger now, since it’s known that he was given the rifle in Wisconsin? Yep. Was it at the beginning? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/5 "2021-11-21T05:39:18Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > I’m genuinely curious about the meaning here. Probably tens of millions of people cross state lines every day - why is it getting such emphasis in this case? It reminds me of opponents of the invasion of Iraq who kept parroting that we invaded a “sovereign” country. As if the word sovereign somehow made it worse. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/6 "2021-11-21T06:01:10Z")
So, could Rittenhouse plausibly be prosecuted for homicide all over again, but this time by the feds instead of the Wisconsin authorities, and not be protected by double jeopardy? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/7 "2021-11-21T06:15:40Z")
There are federal crimes he could be conceivably charged with that in no way are precluded by the double jeopardy rule. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/8 "2021-11-21T06:26:14Z")
It obliterates the notion that he was somehow acting in self-defense. He wasn’t patrolling his own neighborhood - he introduced himself into a situation he didn’t need to be in because he was looking for trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/9 "2021-11-21T08:14:26Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > There are federal crimes he could be conceivably charged with that in no way are precluded by the double jeopardy rule. Possibly some civil rights violation? When the cops who beat the shit out of Rodney King were all acquitted (precipitating massive riots in Los Angeles), they were subsequently prosecuted for some federal crimes. Two of the four were acquitted and the other two were found guilty and did 30 months each. > **[Rodney King | Federal civil rights trial of officers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodney_King#Federal_civil_rights_trial_of_officers)** > > After the acquittals and the riots, the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) sought indictments of the police officers for violations of King's civil rights. On May 7, federal prosecutors began presenting evidence to the federal grand jury in Los Angeles. On August 4, the grand jury returned indictments against the three officers for "willfully and intentionally using unreasonable force" and against Sergeant Koon for "willfully permitting and failing to take action to stop the unlawful assau... ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/10 "2021-11-21T08:17:02Z")
There is no Federal civil rights claim that could reasonably be brought against Rittenhouse simply because he lives in Illinois. Nor is it relevant to the claim of self-defense. There are also not any Federal crimes he can be charged with related to his travel to Wisconsin. That’s a nice 0 for 3 by @Senegoid , @Smapti and @crowmanyclouds. Always welcome to try again next time, though. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/11 "2021-11-21T08:19:33Z")
Granted, I didn’t mean to imply that crossing state lines had anything to do with it. The Rodney King incident didn’t involve crossing state lines at all. If it’s possible that Rittenhouse can be federally charged with violating anybody’s civil rights, or anything else, that doesn’t have to involve crossing state lines. ETA: But if he is to be charged for some federal crimes, it would have to be some crime other than homicide, which isn’t a federal crime in most cases. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/12 "2021-11-21T08:27:52Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > There is no Federal civil rights claim that could reasonably be brought against Rittenhouse simply because he lives in Illinois. Nor is it relevant to the claim of self-defense. There are also not any Federal crimes he can be charged with related to his travel to Wisconsin. > > That’s a nice 0 for 3 by @Senegoid , @Smapti and @crowmanyclouds. Always welcome to try again next time, though. A: I guess the word “conceivably” means nothing? 2: I never mentioned “because he lives in Illinois” or “his travel to Wisconsin” so, umm, how did I get on your scorecard? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/13 "2021-11-21T08:30:36Z")
That isn’t a logical conclusion. It sounds like victim blaming. In the United States people are free to travel and are free to be in public spaces. Much like one shouldn’t encourage a Heckler’s Veto to shut down public spaces for speech we shouldn’t encourage a rampaging mob’s veto to shut down public spaces to have a business or even walk. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/14 "2021-11-21T08:31:21Z")
What civil rights were violated? The civil right to attack someone during a riot? I’m not sure that’s a civil right yet. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/15 "2021-11-21T08:34:47Z")
Isn’t it some kind of civil right violation, depending on the totality of circumstances, to kill someone? IANAL, so I’m just WAGging here. The Federal rules may be different than State rules. I think that’s what they got the cops for who beat up Rodney King. Maybe it’s only a civil rights violation when cops do it? @Martin_Hyde can you help us out with some knowledgeable information here? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/16 "2021-11-21T08:35:10Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > {…} Much like one shouldn’t encourage a Heckler’s Veto to shut down public spaces for speech we shouldn’t encourage a rampaging mob’s veto to shut down public spaces to have a business or even walk. Or veto the results of an election? Why do you always leave that one off??? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/17 "2021-11-21T08:38:39Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Much like one shouldn’t encourage a Heckler’s Veto to shut down public spaces for speech we shouldn’t encourage a rampaging mob’s veto to shut down public spaces to have a business or even walk. Public spaces such as the US Capitol, for instance? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/18 "2021-11-21T08:39:00Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > {…} I think that’s what they got the cops for who beat up Rodney King. {…} I’m not certain, but IIRC, one of the issues there was the police acting ‘Under the Color of ~~Law~~ Authority’. > **[Color (law)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_(law))** > > In United States law, the term color of law denotes the "mere semblance of legal right," the "pretense or appearance of" right; hence, an action done under color of law adjusts (colors) the law to the circumstance, yet said apparently legal action contravenes the law. > In English and American jurisprudence, an act done “under color of law” is an act done by an official as if authorized by law, but which is in fact not authorized. It was first used in English statutory law in the 13th century. ... ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/19 "2021-11-21T09:07:30Z")
As **crowmanyclouds** suggests, it’s a federal offence for someone acting under color of law to deprive a person of civil rights: > **[Deprivation Of Rights Under Color Of Law](https://www.justice.gov/crt/deprivation-rights-under-color-law)** It’s the fact that the people assaulting Rodney King were police officers that made them liable under this section. An assault by private citizens wouldn’t have been a federal offence under this section. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705/20 "2021-11-21T09:21:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It obliterates the notion that he was somehow acting in self-defense. Cite? I’ve seen a number of elements listed for determining whether self-defense applies; I don’t recall seeing a helpful note to the effect that _oh, hey, it’s no longer possible once someone has crossed a state line._ Since you’re the one making a claim, it’d sure be super if you could, uh, show us where you think you saw that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-crossed-state-lines/954705.md?page=2)