# He didn't change his mind on the mandate **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2013, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666 "2013-10-08T08:17:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/1 "2013-10-08T08:17:43Z")
[http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/obama-health-care-conversion-obamacare-97185.html#ixzz2fpHQG0C4](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/obama-health-care-conversion-obamacare-97185.html#ixzz2fpHQG0C4) actually, he just lied. > [@](#): > > ``` > At the advice of his political advisers, Obama sought to undercut Clinton by accusing her of pushing for an individual mandate — an idea borrowed from Republicans that polled poorly with independents and conservative Democrats in critical battlegrounds like Pennsylvania and Ohio. > > Aides say Obama was simply looking for any way to differentiate himself from an opponent whose basic policy positions were indistinguishable from his own. After Clinton dropped out in June 2008, Obama was privately telling his staff that any health care reform he proposed would most likely include a mandate. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/2 "2013-10-08T09:34:16Z")
This is just the break the McCain campaign has been waiting for! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/3 "2013-10-08T09:35:19Z")
Oh. Well, OK then. So… how 'bout them Yankees ? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/4 "2013-10-08T09:35:56Z")
Nah, all it means is that anything he says about the health care law can be assumed to be a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/5 "2013-10-08T09:45:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nah, all it means is that anything he says about the health care law can be assumed to be a lie. I read the article you linked to; where was the lie? What was it that you read that made you think something was a lie? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/6 "2013-10-08T09:51:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nah, all it means is that anything he says about the health care law can be assumed to be a lie. You know when you meet new people and they assume you’re mentally disabled? They’re right. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/7 "2013-10-08T09:54:10Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I read the article you linked to; where was the lie? What was it that you read that made you think something was a lie? He chose the issue to differentiate himself. As soon as Clinton dropped out, it was unnecessary to keep up the charade. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/8 "2013-10-08T10:35:01Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I read the article you linked to; where was the lie? What was it that you read that made you **think** something was a lie? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means with that pronoun with that referent. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/9 "2013-10-08T11:00:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nah, all it means is that anything he says about the health care law can be assumed to be a lie. Isn’t that a bit of a stretch? How do you get from, “The President, for political reasons, attacked Clinton in the campaign as wanting a mandate when he privately believed that a mandate was necessary” to “Everything the President ever says about the health care law is a lie.”? It seems like the difference now is that there actually is a health care law that says what it says. It’s one thing for Candidate Obama, working in the realm of hypotheticals, to criticize another candidate’s plan, but we’re outside of the hypothetical world now. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/10 "2013-10-08T13:24:49Z")
I always assume anything a presidential candidate says is [potentially] a lie. But I don’t assume everything they say once elected is a lie. That would be stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/11 "2013-10-08T13:29:45Z")
Gee, guess this means I shouldn’t vote for Obama in 2016. Guess I will just have to vote for another Democratic Presidential nominee. Darn. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/12 "2013-10-08T14:35:34Z")
What a dirty, lying fucker he is, changing his mind like that. [ > [@](#): > > DeParle’s memo makes clear that the Obama White House remained skeptical of the mandate as late as the spring of 2009. Like anyone who has won an election, Obama naturally wanted to avoid contradicting his campaign positions if he could. The President was pushed into adopting the individual mandate by two forces: Democrats in Congress and the C.B.O. When it became clear that it was untenable for Obama to keep his anti-mandate campaign position, his aides looked to Massachusetts to craft their own proposal, which included the same kind of hardship waiver as the state law. (I wrote about the Romneycare connection for The New Yorker last year.) > > On July 17th, three months after this memo was sent to Obama, and after House Democrats publicly embraced the individual mandate, the President was asked by CBS News, “Do you believe that each individual American should be required to have health insurance?” > > “I have come to that conclusion,” Obama replied. “During the campaign I was opposed to this idea because my general attitude was the reason people don’t have health insurance is not because they don’t want it, it’s because they can’t afford it. And if you make it affordable, then they’ll come. I am now in favor of some sort of individual mandate as long as there’s a hardship exemption.” ]([http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/03/the-mandate-memo-how-obama-changed-his-mind.html](http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/03/the-mandate-memo-how-obama-changed-his-mind.html)) ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/13 "2013-10-08T14:52:48Z")
This is dumb even for **Adaher** ’s standards. This might count as just barely passable for **Clothy** ’s though. Try to get him to make this thread instead. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/14 "2013-10-08T15:54:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nah, all it means is that anything he says about the health care law can be assumed to be a lie. Yeah, with some people you just _know_ that anything they say will turn out to be untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/15 "2013-10-08T15:55:37Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > This is dumb even for **Adaher** ’s standards. This might count as just barely passable for **Clothy** ’s though. Oh, great. They’re competing. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/16 "2013-10-08T16:04:32Z")
Tell you what: in the next election, I WON’T vote for Obama! ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/17 "2013-10-08T16:08:05Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Tell you what: in the next election, I WON’T vote for Obama! I will! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/18 "2013-10-08T16:11:06Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Isn’t that a bit of a stretch? How do you get from, “The President, for political reasons, attacked Clinton in the campaign as wanting a mandate when he privately believed that a mandate was necessary” to “Everything the President ever says about the health care law is a lie.”? Since he is the President, I’d think we’d hold him to higher standards than an average SDMB poster. > [@](#): > > t seems like the difference now is that there actually is a health care law that says what it says. It’s one thing for Candidate Obama, working in the realm of hypotheticals, to criticize another candidate’s plan, but we’re outside of the hypothetical world now. We are still very much in hypothetical waters now. The President has said many things since the law was passed that also were not true. The biggest whopper was that insurance costs would drop by $2500 per person. Wouldn’t you say he’s established a pattern here of untrustworthiness? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/19 "2013-10-08T16:12:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I always assume anything a presidential candidate says is [potentially] a lie. But I don’t assume everything they say once elected is a lie. That would be stupid. In general, if a politician’s statement is a) unverifiable, and b) self-serving, it’s almost certainly untrue. Unless they are one of those rare types who generally just says whatever they think, in which case they might be wrong, but at least they aren’t trying to deceive. Obama is a pretty typical politician. He doesn’t say a word unless it’s been poll tested, focus group tested, and serves whatever purpose he has at any given moment. And when caught lying, it’s no skin off his back, because people accept that politicians lie, and his followers don’t love him any less. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666/20 "2013-10-08T16:16:57Z")
> [@Trion](#): > > Oh, great. They’re competing. 20 quatloos on the idiot! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-didnt-change-his-mind-on-the-mandate/670666.md?page=2)