# He Hate Me FF keeper league **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 2, 2006, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113 "2006-06-02T05:51:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113/281 "2006-12-27T01:13:31Z")
Congratulations to **The Mad Hermiit** for winning the championship this year. Also congrats to **VarlosZ** for securing Ladainian Tomlinson by winning the consolation bowl. Final Standings 1. Crabby Hermits 2. Fightin’ Quakers 3. Moridwon (Hamlet) 4. Mini Ditkas 5. Varlos’ Zzzzzzz 6. Del Pilar of Salt 7. Baltimore Weirdos 8. Rhinosaurs(neuroman) 9. Mundis Morning Glory 10. Fourth and Nineteen 11. Culpable Deniability 12. Karma’s Bitch 13. Asparagus Pee 14. New York Fanboys It’ll take me a couple days to finish the keeper info for next year. In the meantime, here are the potential rule changes to consider: **Turnover points** : Interceptions thrown: -3 Fumbles lost: -3 (-1 for fumbling, -2 for losing it) Interceptions caught: +2 Fumbles recovered: +1 Vote for any changes. Note: The only votes that will be recognized are ones that include concrete numbers. So instead of saying that all fumbles should count the same regardless of who recovers them, offer something like -3/0 or +2 or whatever for the fumble scoring. **Waiver priority** : Do you want to reseed the waiver priority each week based on the standings? That’s all the isues we have so far, which speaks well of our rules. My votes: Bump fumble recoveries up from +1 to +2. Re-seed waivers based on the standings each week. Any other rule suggestions are welcome. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113/282 "2006-12-27T06:17:01Z")
My votes: Bump fumble recoveries up from +1 to +2. **Do not** Re-seed waivers based on the standings each week. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113/283 "2006-12-27T09:47:02Z")
I see that I forgot the issue of boosting defensive points allowed. The current settings are 10,7,4,1,0,-1,-4. furt suggested 20,15,10,5,0,-5,-10; which may be a bit extreme. His general idea was to make defenses more valuable, along the lines of the skill positions. To that end, _if_ we want to boost defense, I’d vote to do something like: (Current setting in parentheses.) Sack: **1.5** (1) Interception: **3** (2) Fumble Recovery: **3** (1) Touchdown: 6 (6) Safety: 2 (2) Blocked kick: **3** (2) Kickoff/punt return touchdown: 6 (6) Points Allowed 0 points: **15** (10) Points Allowed 1-6 points **11** (7) Points Allowed 7-13 points **6** (4) Points Allowed 14-20 points **2** (1) Points Allowed 21-27 points 0 (0) Points Allowed 28-34 points **-3** (-1) Points Allowed 35+ points **-7** (-4) In a nutshell, boost defense by half again. Note that this means I’m casting two different votes for fumble recoveries. If we want to boost defense it’s one thing, but if not at least I’d like to normalize turnovers. Make sense? When voting whether or not to boost the defense, concrete numbers aren’t necessary. A simple yay or nay, and a vague “those numbers are close”, “boost even more” or “not quite so much” are fine. If you have specific numbers in mind, I’m all ears. Also, **Munch** expressed some interest in recalculating waiver priority each week. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2006, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113/284 "2006-12-27T16:20:56Z")
My thoughts… 1. I’m number 3!!! Woo Hoo!!! 2. Curse you Peyton Manning and your 4 touchdown game against the Bengals. You cost me the championship.!!! 3. Thanks for all the hard work, Ellis! Outstanding job. 4. This is the only league of 4 I’m in where LT’s owner did not win it all. He’s simply amazing. 5. ``` Do not redo waiver priority based on standings. ``` 6. ``` Adjust the defense a bit to add value to them. Definitely +3 for fumble recoveries and int's. I also like: ``` Sack: (1) – Keep sacks the same. Interception: (2) – Add one to make it +3. Fumble Recovery: (1) – Add two to make it +3. Touchdown: (6) – Same Safety: (2) – Add 3 points to make it 5. They’re very rare, kinda cool, and they do result in a change of possession like a turnover, so add the 3 points for a turnover to make it 5 total. Blocked kick: (2) – Same Kickoff/punt return touchdown: (6) – Same Points Allowed 0 points: 15 (10) Points Allowed 1-6 points 11 (7) Points Allowed 7-13 points 6 (4) Points Allowed 14-20 points 2 (1) Points Allowed 21-27 points 0 (0) Points Allowed 28-34 points -3 (-1) Points Allowed 35+ points -7 (-4) I like the point adjustments Ellis made, especially negative for poor defense. These changes will definitely improve the D’s points and make it a position akin to the skill positions. 1. I like bacon. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113/285 "2006-12-28T03:06:40Z")
**Mundi** , send me your address and you will have your beer. I make no promises of adequate groveling though. And I think this is the second straight year I finished last in the championship bracket. I’m like the Marty Schottenheimer of the SDMB fantasy league. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2006, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113/286 "2006-12-28T16:17:22Z")
[QUOTE=Omniscient] **Mundi** , send me your address and you will have your beer. I make no promises of adequate groveling though. And I think this is the second straight year I finished last in the championship bracket. I’m like the Marty Schottenheimer of the SDMB fantasy league. [/QUOTE] Email sent. And so long as you make an hones attempt at a public grovel, the judges will no doubt be lenient. BTW - Steven Jackson pretty much single-handedly won me the championship game in this league. He turned out to be a steal for me at pick 10. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113/287 "2006-12-29T16:54:24Z")
1. All turnovers to have the same value and to have the same magnitude for the offense and defense. Anything else would represent an imbalance in assigned value between the two parties, and we all know a rational economic agent would never make such an exchange 😃 (economic humor? God, I need to get more sleep): [ul][li]Interception thrown (-3)[/li][li]Interception made (3)[/li][li]Fumble (-1)[/li][li]Fumble lost (-2)[/li][li]Fumble forced (1)[/li][li]Fumble recovered by defense[sup]\*/sup[/ul][/li] 2. Upon furhter review, my decision to favor weekly priority based upon standings has been overturned. The attmpt to foster competetiveness did not have full control of the proposal before landing out of bounds. A poor team should not be able to contiually thrash the waiver wire to grab that weeks’ “hot prospect” until he lands a winner. Judicious use of waiver priority is one of the only strategic elements available to an owner once the season starts. It would be a shame to lose it. 3. Defensive points: turnovers should be increased invalue as noted above, but the bottom line for defense is not giving up points, and giving up 26 points should not be “neutral”. Anything over 21 is a bad defensive day. Period. [ul][li]Sack: (1) It is not a game changing play, just a good one.[/li][li]Interception: (3)[/li][li]Fumble forced (1)[/li][li]Fumble recovered by defense[sup]\*[/sup] (2)[/li][li]Return Touchdown: (6) Punt/kick/fumble/Int – who cares. It’s a score [/li][li]Safety: (2) just like in the real game. And it isn’t points plus a turnover, it’s points plus a punt.[/li][li]Blocked kick: (3)[/li][li]Points Allowed 0 points: 15[/li][li]Points Allowed 1-6 points 10[/li][li]Points Allowed 7-13 points 5[/li][li]Points Allowed 14-20 points 0[/li][li]Points Allowed 21-27 points -3[/li][li]Points Allowed 28-34 points -6[/li][li]Points Allowed 35+ points -9[/ul][/li] 4. Chinese [sup]\*[/sup][sub]Unfortunately, symmetry must yield on this point. An offensive player recovering a fumble is not worth positive points; it merely avoids the (-2) for a fumble lost. This also avoids the travesty of having a player drop the ball, recover is, and get positive points for his fumble.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113/288 "2006-12-30T05:16:39Z")
[QUOTE=Spiritus Mundi] A poor team should not be able to contiually thrash the waiver wire to grab that weeks’ “hot prospect” until he lands a winner. Judicious use of waiver priority is one of the only strategic elements available to an owner once the season starts. It would be a shame to lose it. [ul][li]Fumble forced (1)[/li][li]Fumble recovered by defense[sup]\*[/sup] (2)[/li] [li]Safety: (2) just like in the real game. And it isn’t points plus a turnover, it’s points plus a punt.[/li][li]Blocked kick: (3)[/li][li]Points Allowed 0 points: 15[/li][li]Points Allowed 1-6 points 10[/li][li]Points Allowed 7-13 points 5[/li][li]Points Allowed 14-20 points 0[/li][li]Points Allowed 21-27 points -3[/li][li]Points Allowed 28-34 points -6[/li][li]Points Allowed 35+ points -9[/ul][/li][/quote] That’s a pretty decent case for not recalculating the waiver priority each week. Yahoo doesn’t distinguish defensive fumbles unless you play with IDP. Team defenses get no credit for forced fumbles; only fumbles recovered. I could go either way on safeties. You’re right in that it isn’t technically a turnover, but safeties are the only points in the entire game where the team who just scored gets the ball back. That makes it akin to a pseudo-turnover. Also of note is that due to the punt-style kick from the standard kickoff line, you’re almost guaranteed to get the ball back at midfield. Regarding the points allowed, you’re right. Conventional wisdom has it that a defense “wins” by holding the opponent to 17 or less. 21-27 is a pretty clear failure, so I’m hip to sliding the scale back as you suggest. Maybe not those exact numbers, but the idea is sound. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113/289 "2006-12-31T20:32:32Z")
My half-assed season review: Crabby Hermits: 10-4, 1259.80 Best Pick: Peyton Manning I guess. Kind of wierd looking at this team, as it doesn’t really look like a championship winner, but it is. Manning was one of the top two fantasy QB’s, which I suppose makes him worthy of the #10 pick. Jamal Lewis was a pick I hated on draft day, but he turned out OK. Looking at fantasy WR rankings, Housh was actually better than I thought, so he was a pretty good 4th rounder, though I think you could have gotten him later. Worst Pick: Maybe what helped you be the champ is that you don’t really have any. Gado didn’t do anything, but as an 8th rounder, it’s not exactly a killer. Keeper potential: Fast Willie is fantastic as a 7th. That’s all I really see worth a keeper, but that’s a huge one. This year: B+, Keeper: A Fightin Quakers: 10-4, 1258.90 Best Pick: Javon Walker in the 4th, ended up being the 5th best fantasy wideout. Vince Young, besides being a great keeper, was helpful this season. Worst Pick: Ronnie Brown’s injury and absolute mis-use by Lord Saban shouldn’t be used against his fantasy owners. This goes to back to back selections of Kurt Warner and Jake Plummer in the 5th and 6th. Yuck. Good thing you took Vinnie. Keeper potential: Gore in the 6th is maybe even better than Parker in the 8th and has you as one of the favorites for next season. Young in the 9th is good. This year: B+, Keeper: A Mini Ditkas: 10-4, 1213.22 Best pick: McNabb was on a tear before his injury. Worst pick: Both Jones’ going one and two is pretty bad (Thomas wasn’t exactly bad so much as unspectacular). Chambers in the 3rd was even worse. Keeper Potential: Nah. This year: D+, Keeper: Diddly poo says Jim Mora. Moridwon (Hamlet): 9-5, 1303.49 Best Pick: Mojo in the 8th. Great, great, great pick. With Taylor probably heading out of Jax next season, this could be just a notch below Fast Willie and Gore. Steven Jackson was better than I expected. Worst Pick: Edge was an easy choice for most of the season, but he improved. He still gets the nod as you didn’t really have an ugly picks. Keeper Outlook: Mojo falls somewhere between very good and fantastic. Terry Glenn had a very good year and could be the #1 in Dallas next season. Turner could be a starter somewhere and he has tons of promise. This Year: A, Keeper: A Rhinosaurs (neuroman): 8-6, 1371.89 Best Pick: LT. Mos def. Worst Pick: Culpepper kills another fantasy team. Keeper: Not really. Calhoun if KJ missed significant time, maybe Leon Washington, but I suspect that the Jets will go RB in the draft. This Year: B, Keeper: D Del Pilar of Salt, 7-7, 1268.78 Best Pick: Brees is the best fantasty QB, as a 7th rounder that’s a great pickup. Probably best pick in the draft. Worst Pick: Caddilac was awful this year. Bush started off poorly, but has been great in the second half. Mike Bell did little. You finishing at .500 with those being your first three picks shows how good Brees was. Keeper: Brees as a 5th. Boldin as a meh #2. Cutler may not be worth a 9th to sit on your bench, but he has a bit of trade value. This year: C, Keeper: B+ Baltimore Weirdos, 7-7 1207.71 Best Pick: You didn’t have a single good draft pick. Worst pick: Steve Smith, Deshaun Foster, Randy Moss and Chris Brown to start off the draft. You have to go to Bulger in the 5th to see something that doesn’t make you shake your head. Keeper: LJ and Gates are great keepers in the 5th and 6th, though Gates wasn’t great this season. This year: D, Keeper: A Varlos’ Zzzzzz, 7-7 1099.26 Best Pick: Brian Westbrook. Nice value at the end of the first. D Jax in the 4th deserves some mention. Worst Pick: Hasselbeck in the second. You had to convince yourself that it was a smart pick, and you ended up being way off. You could have probably gotten him in the 4th or 5th. Keeper: You’re losing Magahee, which is the only player on your team that would have been worth keeping. This year: C, Keeper: Bupkis. Mundis Morning Glory, 6-8 1152.53 Best pick: Fred Taylor in the third. Worst Pick: Droughns at the end of the first. Though it’s a tough position to be drafting from. Keeper: Leinhart should be OK. This year: C-, Keeper: Zzzzzzzz. Fourth and Nineteen, 6-8 1115.90 Best Pick: I didnt’ like Dillon in the first at all, but he turned out well. Kevin Jones was great before getting injured. I liked the Deuce pick a TON. Andre Johnson was good in the 4th. That’s a 4 way tie to start the draft. Worst Pick: Delhomme was a dissapointment, and Lendale was a bad idea. The guy never really looked poised to challenge for the starting job. Keeper: Rivers. This year: B+ (KJ injury hurt a lot)m Keeper: D+ Culpable Deniability, 6-8 1111.82 Best pick: Much like Fourth 's team, this is just a well drafted squad at the top that was affected by an injury. You twice pissed off those drafting right behind you with Addai and Maroney. Portis wasn’t spectacular when healthy, but he was putting up pretty good numbers. Worst pick: The one you didn’t make, risking your QB situation on Big Ben and making Brad Johnson your backup. Keeper: Your young RB studs were in the first 4 rounds. Addai is ineligable and Maroney is iffy as a second with Dillon still there. I guess it depends on where you draft, though I’m sure you’ll have a chance to trade down in the round. This year: B+ Keeper: C- Karma’s Bitch, 5-9 1412.84 Best Pick: I had plenty of good ones, but I’ll give the edge to Brandon Jacobs for his keeper potential. The top of the draft worked out perfectly with Rudi, TO, Evans in the 4th (which I took heat for but he ended up being the 12th best WR), then even more heat for Vick (3rd best QB). Worst Pick: Mike Alstott in the last round. I was having trouble deciding between him and Colston, but ended up drafting Mike. I ended up dropping him for Colston before the first game, and lost a fantastic keeper (despite Colston almost definitely being a WR exclusive next season). Keeper: Great for me despite Colston. Jacobs (4th) and Chester Taylor (5th) are no brainers. Chicago is nice as a 10th, especially with the possibilty of increasing defensive importance. Vick (7th) is tempting as well. Despite those two, I’m leaning towards making Cedric Benson (3rd) my third keeper. This year: A+ (damn thine karma!!!), Keeper: A+ Asparagus Pee, 5-9 1057.94 Best pick: Travis Henry had a great, under the radar year. Worst: Can’t hold Alexander against you, he’s been a pretty good fantasy RB when healthy and had no injury history that I can recall. I didn’t like Lamont Jordan at all, but with the lack of RB’s around, you had to keep him in the 3rd. Keeper: Henry (8th) is good, though they may try to force Lendale into a prominent role. DeAngelo Williams (3rd) is a no brainer. This year: B-, Keeper: B- New York Fanboys, 2-12 1047.70 Best Pick: Tiki had a great year, though his TD’s were sniped by my boy. Worst pick: The New York Jets. Keeper: IM IN UR LEEG, STEELIN UR RB KEEPERZ This year: F, Keepers: Nah. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113/290 "2006-12-31T20:57:50Z")
– A thrown interception is -3, so all fumbles, regardless of which team recovers, should be -1.5, as fumble recovery, on balance, is about 50/50 between offense and defense, and it’ s been shown not to be a repeatable skill held in varying degrees by different teams. Failing that, I’d be in favor of tweaking the penalty so that it’s -2 for a fumble and an additional -1 for a lost fumble. – I like Ellis’ specific proposal to increase the rewards/penalties for points allowed. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113/291 "2006-12-31T21:53:54Z")
Also, let me just say that I’d like to get in on the ground floor of CREEED – The Committee to Re-elect Ellis Dee. Simply an awesome job this year by the commish. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113/292 "2007-01-08T21:16:03Z")
He Hate Me Keeper League Year 4 Roundup **Schedule** Offseason Trade Deadline: Tuesday 8/21/07 Keeper Declaration: Tuesday 8/28/07 Live Draft: Monday 9/3/07 (Labor Day) at 10:30pm ET **Keeper Rules** 1. You can only keep a maximum of 3 players. 2. You can only keep players drafted after the third round. (Fourth rounders or later only.) 3. A player can only be kept a maximum of twice. (Making 3 total roster years.) 4. A kept player incures a two round penalty. (e.g: drafted in the 6th, kept in the 4th.) **Hall of Fame** Year 1 winner: mouthbreather Year 2 winner: Spiritus Mundi Year 3 winner: Spiritus Mundi Year 4 winner: The Mad Hermit **Final Standings: Year 4** 1. Crabby Hermits 2. Fightin’ Quakers 3. Moridwon (Hamlet) 4. Mini Ditkas 5. Varlos’ Zzzzzzz 6. Del Pilar of Salt 7. Baltimore Weirdos 8. Rhinosaurs(neuroman) 9. Mundis Morning Glory 10. Fourth and Nineteen 11. Culpable Deniability 12. Karma’s Bitch 13. Asparagus Pee 14. New York Fanboys **Draft Order, Year 5** 1. VarlosZ 2. Jimmy Chitwood 3. Weirddave 4. neuroman 5. Ellis Dee 6. Munch 7. BabaBooey 8. Nurse Carmen 9. Wilson 10. Spiritus Mundi 11. Omniscient 12. Hamlet 13. furt 14. The Mad Hermit **Final Rosters** The final rosters include all relevant keeper info. The draft round listed is the round the player was drafted last year; if you want to keep them next year, subtract two rounds. Ineligible keepers are struck out, along with the reason they were disqualified. Exceptional prospects are bolded. 1. Varlos’ Zzzzzzz (VarlosZ) [del]QB…Matt Hasselbeck (QB-Sea)[/del] _1st rounder_ WR…Javon Walker (WR-Den) _4th round pick_ WR…Deion Branch (WR-Sea) _8th round pick_ [del]RB…Brian Westbrook (RB-Phi)[/del] _1st rounder_ [del]RB…Willis McGahee (RB-Buf)[/del] _expired_ TE…Jason Witten (TE-Dal) _5th round pick_ [del]W/R…Bobby Wade (WR-Ten)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Jason Campbell (QB-Was) _12th round pick_ BN…Michael Pittman (RB-TB) _13th round pick_ BN…Troy Williamson (WR-Min) _10th round pick_ [del]BN…Eddie Kennison (WR-KC)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Brett Favre (QB-GB)[/del] _free agent_ [del]K…Neil Rackers (K-Ari)[/del] _free agent_ [del]DEF…Kansas City (DEF-KC)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…St. Louis (DEF-StL)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Cleveland (DEF-Cle)[/del] _free agent_ 2. Del Pilar of Salt (Jimmy Chitwood) QB… **Drew Brees** (QB-NO) _7th round pick_ [del]WR…Anquan Boldin (WR-Ari)[/del] _expired_ WR…Donte’ Stallworth (WR-Phi) _6th round pick_ RB…Marion Barber III (RB-Dal) _5th round pick_ [del]RB…Reggie Bush (RB-NO)[/del] _2nd rounder_ TE…L.J. Smith (TE-Phi) _9th round pick_ [del]W/R…Mike Bell (RB-Den)[/del] _3rd rounder_ BN…Antonio Bryant (WR-SF) _10th round pick_ - kept last year [del]BN…Carnell Williams (RB-TB)[/del] _1st rounder_ [del]BN…Mike Furrey (WR-Det)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Owen Daniels (TE-Hou)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Jay Cutler (QB-Den) _11th round pick_ BN…Aaron Rodgers (QB-GB) _16th round pick_ [del]BN…Justin Fargas (RB-Oak)[/del] _free agent_ [del]K…Joe Nedney (K-SF)[/del] _free agent_ DEF…Baltimore (DEF-Bal) _12th round pick_ 3. Baltimore Weirdos (Weirddave) QB…Marc Bulger (QB-StL) _5th round pick_ WR…Mark Clayton (WR-Bal) _6th round pick_ [del]WR…Steve Smith (WR-Car)[/del] _1st rounder_ [del]RB…Larry Johnson (RB-KC)[/del] _expired_ [del]RB…DeShaun Foster (RB-Car)[/del] _2nd rounder_ [del]TE…Antonio Gates (TE-SD)[/del] _expired_ W/R…Mewelde Moore (RB-Min) _13th round pick_ BN…Musa Smith (RB-Bal) _9th round pick_ [del]BN…Demetrius Williams (WR-Bal)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Randy Moss (WR-Oak)[/del] _3rd rounder_ [del]BN…Drew Carter (WR-Car)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Rex Grossman (QB-Chi)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Ben Troupe (TE-Ten) _15th round pick_ K…Shayne Graham (K-Cin) _10th round pick_ DEF…Seattle (DEF-Sea) _11th round pick_ [del]BN…New England (DEF-NE)[/del] _free agent_ 4. Rhinosaurs (neuroman) QB…Steve McNair (QB-Bal) _9th round pick_ [del]WR…Reggie Wayne (WR-Ind)[/del] _2nd rounder_ [del]WR…Chris Henry (WR-Cin)[/del] _free agent_ [del]RB…LaDainian Tomlinson (RB-SD)[/del] _1st rounder_ [del]RB…Ladell Betts (RB-Was)[/del] _free agent_ TE…Todd Heap (TE-Bal) _5th round pick_ W/R…Tatum Bell (RB-Den) _4th round pick_ [del]BN…David Garrard (QB-Jac)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Santonio Holmes (WR-Pit) _11th round pick_ [del]K…John Carney (K-NO)[/del] _free agent_ [del]DEF…Buffalo (DEF-Buf)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Cincinnati (DEF-Cin)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Carolina (DEF-Car)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Philadelphia (DEF-Phi)[/del] _free agent_ 5. New York Fanboys (Ellis Dee) QB…Eli Manning (QB-NYG) _7th round pick_ - kept last year WR…Plaxico Burress (WR-NYG) _4th round pick_ - kept last year WR…Laveranues Coles (WR-NYJ) _6th round pick_ [del]RB…Tiki Barber[/del] (RB-NYG) _1st rounder_ [del]RB…Cedric Houston (RB-NYJ)[/del] _free agent_ [del]TE…Jeremy Shockey (TE-NYG)[/del] _3rd rounder_ [del]W/R…Jerricho Cotchery (WR-NYJ)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Kevan Barlow (RB-NYJ)[/del] _3rd rounder_ [del]BN…Chad Morton (RB-NYG)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Tim Carter (WR-NYG)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Chad Pennington (QB-NYJ) _9th round pick_ [del]BN…David Tyree (WR-NYG)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Michael Jennings (WR-NYG)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Sinorice Moss (WR-NYG)[/del] _free agent_ K…Jay Feely (K-NYG) _7th round pick_ DEF…New York (DEF-NYG) _6th round pick_ 6. Asparagus Pee (Munch) [del]QB…Carson Palmer (QB-Cin)[/del] _expired_ WR…Joey Galloway (WR-TB) _5th round pick_ [del]WR…Torry Holt (WR-StL)[/del] _2nd rounder_ [del]RB…Shaun Alexander (RB-Sea)[/del] _1st rounder_ RB…Jerious Norwood (RB-Atl) _7th round pick_ TE…Benjamin Watson (TE-NE) _6th round pick_ W/R…DeAngelo Williams (RB-Car) _5th round pick_ [del]BN…Anthony Thomas (RB-Buf)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Michael Jenkins (WR-Atl) _13th round pick_ - kept last year BN…Maurice Morris (RB-Sea) _15th round pick_ BN…Greg Jennings (WR-GB) _9th round pick_ [del]BN…Alex Smith (TE-TB)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Alex Smith (QB-SF) _16th round pick_ [del]BN…Arlen Harris (RB-Det)[/del] _free agent_ [del]K…Lawrence Tynes (K-KC)[/del] _free agent_ [del]DEF…Minnesota (DEF-Min)[/del] _free agent_ 7. Karma’s Bitch (BabaBooey) QB…Michael Vick (QB-Atl) _9th round pick_ [del]WR…Terrell Owens (WR-Dal)[/del] _2nd rounder_ [del]WR…Devery Henderson (WR-NO)[/del] _free agent_ [del]RB…Rudi Johnson (RB-Cin)[/del] _1st rounder_ RB…Cedric Benson (RB-Chi) _5th round pick_ [del]TE…Marques Colston (WR,TE-NO)[/del] _free agent_ W/R… **Brandon Jacobs** (RB-NYG) _6th round pick_ [del]BN…Chester Taylor (RB-Min)[/del] _expired_ BN…Lee Evans (WR-Buf) _4th round pick_ BN…Chad Jackson (WR-NE) _10th round pick_ [del]BN…Damon Huard (QB-KC)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Domanick Davis (RB-Hou) _11th round pick_ BN…David Carr (QB-Hou) _13th round pick_ K…Jeff Reed (K-Pit) _15th round pick_ DEF…Chicago (DEF-Chi) _12th round pick_ - kept last year BN…Denver (DEF-Den) _15th round pick_ 8. Culpable Deniability (Nurse Carmen) [del]QB…Ben Roethlisberger (QB-Pit)[/del] _expired_ [del]WR…Marvin Harrison (WR-Ind)[/del] _2nd rounder_ WR…Muhsin Muhammad (WR-Chi) _5th round pick_ RB…Laurence Maroney (RB-NE) _4th round pick_ [del]RB…Joseph Addai (RB-Ind)[/del] _3rd rounder_ TE…Chris Cooley (TE-Was) _8th round pick_ - kept last year W/R…Travis Taylor (WR-Min) _12th round pick_ - kept last year [del]BN…Joey Harrington (QB-Mia)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Heath Miller (TE-Pit) _6th round pick_ BN…Ashley Lelie (WR-Atl) _15th round pick_ [del]BN…Bernard Berrian (WR-Chi)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Ron Dayne (RB-Hou) _14th round pick_ BN…Tarvaris Jackson (QB-Min) _16th round pick_ [del]BN…Ciatrick Fason (RB-Min)[/del] _free agent_ [del]K…Josh Scobee (K-Jac)[/del] _free agent_ [del]DEF…Oakland (DEF-Oak)[/del] _free agent_ 9. Fourth and Nineteen (Wilson) QB…Vince Young (QB-Ten) _11th round pick_ WR…Andre Johnson (WR-Hou) _4th round pick_ WR…Keyshawn Johnson (WR-Car) _12th round pick_ [del]RB…Travis Henry (RB-Ten)[/del] _free agent_ [del]RB…Kevin Jones (RB-Det)[/del] _2nd rounder_ TE…Jerramy Stevens (TE-Sea) _11th round pick_ [del]W/R…Deuce McAllister (RB-NO)[/del] _3rd rounder_ BN… **Philip Rivers** (QB-SD) _14th round pick_ - kept last year [del]BN…Corey Dillon (RB-NE)[/del] _1st rounder_ [del]BN…Patrick Crayton (WR-Dal)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Joe Klopfenstein (TE-StL) _13th round pick_ BN…Ernest Wilford (WR-Jac) _7th round pick_ BN…LenDale White (RB-Ten) _5th round pick_ [del]K…Matt Stover (K-Bal)[/del] _free agent_ [del]DEF…Miami (DEF-Mia)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Dallas (DEF-Dal)[/del] _free agent_ 10. Mundis Morning Glory (Spiritus Mundi) QB…Tom Brady (QB-NE) _4th round pick_ - kept last year [del]WR…Chad Johnson (WR-Cin)[/del] _2nd rounder_ WR…Braylon Edwards (WR-Cle) _9th round pick_ [del]RB…Warrick Dunn (RB-Atl)[/del] _3rd rounder_ [del]RB…Fred Taylor (RB-Jac)[/del] _3rd rounder_ [del]TE…Desmond Clark (TE-Chi)[/del] _free agent_ [del]W/R…Wali Lundy (RB-Hou)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Reuben Droughns (RB-Cle)[/del] _1st rounder_ BN…Santana Moss (WR-Was) _6th rounder_ - kept last year [del]BN…Leon Washington (RB-NYJ)[/del] _free agent_ [del]BN…Reggie Williams (WR-Jac)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Randy McMichael (TE-Mia) _7th round pick_ BN…Matt Leinart (QB-Ari) _10th round pick_ BN…Ryan Moats (RB-Phi) _9th round pick_ [del]K…Adam Vinatieri (K-Ind)[/del] _free agent_ [del]DEF…Atlanta (DEF-Atl)[/del] _free agent_ 11. Mini Ditkas (Omniscient) [del]QB…Jeff Garcia (QB-Phi)[/del] _free agent_ [del]WR…Chris Chambers (WR-Mia)[/del] _3rd rounder_ [del]WR…Reche Caldwell (WR-NE)[/del] _free agent_ [del]RB…Julius Jones (RB-Dal)[/del] _1st rounder_ [del]RB…Thomas Jones (RB-Chi)[/del] _2nd rounder_ [del]TE…Ben Utecht (TE-Ind)[/del] _free agent_ [del]W/R…Drew Bennett (WR-Ten)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Joe Horn (WR-NO) _4th round pick_ BN…Dallas Clark (TE-Ind) _7th round pick_ BN…Kevin Curtis (WR-StL) _12th round pick_ - kept last year BN…Reggie Brown (WR-Phi) _6th round pick_ [del]BN…J.P. Losman (QB-Buf)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Dominic Rhodes (RB-Ind) _14th round pick_ - kept last year BN…Maurice Hicks (RB-SF) _10th round pick_ K…Jeff Wilkins (K-StL) _15th round pick_ DEF…Jacksonville (DEF-Jac) _13th round pick_ 12. Moridwon (Hamlet) QB…Trent Green (QB-KC) _6th round pick_ [del]WR…Donald Driver (WR-GB)[/del] _3rd rounder_ WR…Terry Glenn (WR-Dal) _14th round pick_ - kept last year [del]RB…Steven Jackson (RB-StL)[/del] _2nd rounder_ [del]RB…Edgerrin James (RB-Ari)[/del] _1st rounder_ TE…Tony Gonzalez (TE-KC) _5th round pick_ W/R… **Maurice Jones-Drew** (RB-Jac) _8th round pick_ BN…Jon Kitna (QB-Det) _10th round pick_ BN…Derrick Mason (WR-Bal) _4th round pick_ [del]BN…Bo Scaife (TE-Ten)[/del] _free agent_ BN… **Michael Turner** (RB-SD) _13th round pick_ BN…Isaac Bruce (WR-StL) _7th round pick_ BN…Doug Gabriel (WR-Oak) _12th round pick_ BN…Correll Buckhalter (RB-Phi) _15th round pick_ [del]K…Robbie Gould (K-Chi)[/del] _free agent_ DEF…Indianapolis (DEF-Ind) _11th round pick_ 13. Fightin’ Quakers (furt) [del]QB…Tony Romo (QB-Dal)[/del] _free agent_ [del]WR…Larry Fitzgerald (WR-Ari)[/del] _3rd rounder_ [del]WR…Arnaz Battle (WR-SF)[/del] _free agent_ RB… **Frank Gore** (RB-SF) _8th round pick_ - kept last year [del]RB…Sammy Morris (RB-Mia)[/del] _free agent_ TE…Kellen Winslow (TE-Cle) _7th round pick_ [del]W/R…Wes Welker (WR-Mia)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Darrell Jackson (WR-Sea) _4th round pick_ [del]BN…Ahman Green (RB-GB)[/del] _2nd rounder_ [del]BN…Ronnie Brown (RB-Mia)[/del] _1st rounder_ BN…Jake Delhomme (QB-Car) _6th round pick_ - kept last year BN…Matt Jones (WR-Jac) _9th round pick_ - kept last year BN…Vernon Davis (TE-SF) _10th round pick_ BN…Jerome Harrison (RB-Cle) _12th round pick_ [del]K…Martin Gramatica (K-Dal)[/del] _free agent_ [del]DEF…Tennessee (DEF-Ten)[/del] _free agent_ 14. Crabby Hermits (The Mad Hermit) [del]QB…Peyton Manning (QB-Ind)[/del] _1st rounder_ WR…T.J. Houshmandzadeh (WR-Cin) _4th round pick_ [del]WR…Hines Ward (WR-Pit)[/del] _3rd rounder_ RB… **Willie Parker** (RB-Pit) _9th round pick_ - kept last year [del]RB…Jamal Lewis (RB-Bal)[/del] _2nd rounder_ TE…Alge Crumpler (TE-Atl) _5th round pick_ W/R…Antwaan Randle El (WR-Was) _11th round pick_ [del]BN…Marty Booker (WR-Mia)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Rod Smith (WR-Den) _6th round pick_ [del]BN…Mack Strong (RB-Sea)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Drew Bledsoe (QB-Dal) _7th round pick_ - kept last year [del]BN…Bobby Engram (WR-Sea)[/del] _free agent_ BN…Samkon Gado (RB-Hou) _8th round pick_ BN…LaBrandon Toefield (RB-Jac) _14th round pick_ K…John Kasay (K-Car) _13th round pick_ [del]DEF…Pittsburgh (DEF-Pit)[/del] _expired_ ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113/293 "2007-01-08T21:33:30Z")
[QUOTE=BabaBooey] Keeper: Great for me despite Colston. Jacobs (4th) and Chester Taylor (5th) are no brainers. [/QUOTE] Mundi kept Taylor last year, then traded him to you where you kept him this year. Keeper eligibity expires after a player is kept two consecutive years regardless of trades. > [@VarlosZ](#): > > – A thrown interception is -3, so all fumbles, regardless of which team recovers, should be -1.5, as fumble recovery, on balance, is about 50/50 between offense and defense, and it’ s been shown not to be a repeatable skill held in varying degrees by different teams. Failing that, I’d be in favor of tweaking the penalty so that it’s -2 for a fumble and an additional -1 for a lost fumble. What about offensive fumble return TDs? Also, the FO article asserted that pick-sixes were as random as fumble recoveries, which means all defensive TDs are random. Are you voting to zero out those categories? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2007, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113/294 "2007-06-26T03:53:44Z")
**Weirddave** and **Spiritus Mundi** , your presence is requested in the new league. Please sign up asap. [He Hate Me So Bad FF keeper league](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=423632) [http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/f1/8974](http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/f1/8974) I’ve sent you both a PM with the league password, in addition to the two emails I sent over the past few weeks. Please, nobody reply to this zombie thread. Mods, feel free to lock it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hate-me-ff-keeper-league/359113.md?page=14)