# He hit my kid. Someone talk me down..... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 10, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050 "2005-12-10T16:45:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/101 "2005-12-12T16:18:56Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I’m curious about this need to fight their own battles. > My wife had a stalker. I was prepared to do whatever was required to protect her. We handled this through the police in a very efficient way. Our Police talked to the Police in his hometown and they picked him up and explained to him that if he ever bothered us again both police departments would ensure that he would never want to again. Apparently they were able to convince him it was time to move on. We never heard from him again. > > So, was I wrong to help my wife through this situation? > > I had incidentally threatened him once, before I was even dating my wife. He was trying to sneak in backstage at the Count Basie where I was doing stagehand/security work for a Jazz & Blues festival. I had seen him annoying this girl I barely knew and when I saw him again trying to sneak in to talk to her. I signaled my brother over and he grabbed two more volunteers and we simply told him it was time for him to go home, he had no business here and if we saw him again we would call the police. (The Police are right down the road). Thankfully he left. > I would have done this for any girl if the situation presented itself. > I didn’t find out until after I had been dating my wife that this was an old boy friend from college that wouldn’t leave her alone. > > If violence had been required to protect her, I would have used it. Thankfully in most cases there are peaceful means. I am happy the Police had a way of dealing with this idiot and he wasn’t crazy enough to do anything further. > > Jim Again, that’s not what happened here. There was not an immediate situation to respond to with violence. This was hours (maybe days) after the fact. You could have gone after this guy and beat the shit out of him, but you didn’t. And you shouldn’t. It’s legal to defend yourself (or another person) from an immediate threat. Violence beyond that is premeditated and is illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/102 "2005-12-12T16:21:52Z")
> [@Mr Bus Guy](#): > > Sometimes I wonder if people have bothered to read previous posts. > > Let’s count the ways she’s dealt with this herself: > > 1. She got on the phone and contacted the local PD, and prosecutors office to learn her options. > 2. She told the jerkoff to leave her alone, and outlined that the police would become involved if he did not. I read the posts. She sounded like she was handling it just fine. It was your intervention that could create more problems than it will solve. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/103 "2005-12-12T16:26:57Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Again, that’s not what happened here. There was not an immediate situation to respond to with violence. This was hours (maybe days) after the fact. You could have gone after this guy and beat the shit out of him, but you didn’t. And you shouldn’t. It’s legal to defend yourself (or another person) from an immediate threat. Violence beyond that is premeditated and is illegal. I agree with what you said, but all \*\*Mr Bus Guy \*\* did was send an Email. He did not actually commit any violence. While the actual Email may not have been the most prudent act, I completely support his support and trying to help his daughter; whether she was 20, 60 or 5 years old. Family means not having to go it alone. When someone in my family needs help with anything, we are there. I think the intent of \*\*Mr Bus Guy \*\* was noble; to protect his daughter and help through this time. The legal questions on the Email are beyond me and I will defer to the more knowledgeable. But in the end, it is always right to help your family. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/104 "2005-12-12T16:30:04Z")
**Kalhoun** , fundamentally I agree with your second to last post. What fascinates me, however, and it goes back to my original point, is that the legal system is essentially premeditated and ultimately violent. In truth, there is no difference between a policeman “having a word” with a stalker, and the husband threatening the individual. The only difference is that the former is legal, and the latter illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/105 "2005-12-12T16:42:10Z")
> [@](#): > > In truth, there is no difference between a policeman “having a word” with a stalker, and the husband threatening the individual. The only difference is that the former is legal, and the latter illegal. Been a long day, that paragraph doesn’t gel, let’s try again. In truth, there is no difference between a policeman “having a word” with a stalker, and the husband threatening the individual. In law, the former is legal, and the latter illegal. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/106 "2005-12-12T16:48:02Z")
> [@](#): > > **Mellivora capensis** said: > catsix, I acknowledge the nobility of your “don’t hit first” credo and I’m sure it would apply in many circumstances, but I’m not sure I would apply it in every life situation. When confronted with an attacker whose intent to harm is clear and present, the last thing you can afford is to be hit first. And when he’s down, and he’s trying to get up, he needs to stay down. > > On the street there are no Marquis of Queensbury rules. Well it was a lesson for **kids**. As in little human beings who need simple rules. Obviously it’s quite possible to add caveats and considerations for different circumstances as a kid grows up into an adult and can not only understand a more complex set of guidlines but begin to exercise judgment as well. It’s hard to teach a little kid ‘sometimes the bastard’s gotta stay down’, so why not start out with simple rules and then go on as the kid gets older in learning how to evaluate the severity of danger inherent in a situation and what kind of force would be appropriate? ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/107 "2005-12-12T16:51:18Z")
**catsix** , fair comment. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/108 "2005-12-12T16:55:49Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I agree with what you said, but all \*\*Mr Bus Guy \*\* did was send an Email. He did not actually commit any violence. > While the actual Email may not have been the most prudent act, I completely support his support and trying to help his daughter; whether she was 20, 60 or 5 years old. Family means not having to go it alone. When someone in my family needs help with anything, we are there. I think the intent of \*\*Mr Bus Guy \*\* was noble; to protect his daughter and help through this time. > The legal questions on the Email are beyond me and I will defer to the more knowledgeable. But in the end, it is always right to help your family. > > Jim Well, it’s my understanding that to threaten bodily harm to someone is illegal. I don’t believe this email actually scared the guy even a little bit, but if he wanted to start some shit, he could complicate the Bus Guy’s life. The point I’m trying to make is that the email was unsolicited by Bus Kid (at least that’s how I read it) and it appeared to me she was looking to her father for support…not to “fix” it (which his actions probably didn’t do anyway). Do I understand his anger? Absolutely. But what would he do if (and I’m not saying she will) she decided to make another go of it with this guy? It would be her decision alone, regardless of his desire to protect her from him. Then what? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/109 "2005-12-12T17:08:59Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Well, it’s my understanding that to threaten bodily harm to someone is illegal. I don’t believe this email actually scared the guy even a little bit, but if he wanted to start some shit, he could complicate the Bus Guy’s life. The point I’m trying to make is that the email was unsolicited by Bus Kid (at least that’s how I read it) and it appeared to me she was looking to her father for support…not to “fix” it (which his actions probably didn’t do anyway). Do I understand his anger? Absolutely. But what would he do if (and I’m not saying she will) she decided to make another go of it with this guy? It would be her decision alone, regardless of his desire to protect her from him. Then what? I would strongly hope that she would not make another go with this guy. I concede the Email was not a great idea, in fact I think I already did and I think **Mr. Bus Guy** did also. I am defending his trying to help his daughter. That’s all. The intent was right, the execution as with so much in life, probably not. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/110 "2005-12-12T17:13:27Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > I would strongly hope that she would not make another go with this guy. > > I concede the Email was not a great idea, in fact I think I already did and I think **Mr. Bus Guy** did also. > I am defending his trying to help his daughter. That’s all. The intent was right, the execution as with so much in life, probably not. > > Jim Well, I’m just saying it wouldn’t be the first time a woman went back to an abuser. She handled it like the mature woman he described and it should have been left at that. That’s all’s I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/111 "2005-12-12T17:15:54Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Well, I’m just saying it wouldn’t be the first time a woman went back to an abuser. She handled it like the mature woman he described and it should have been left at that. That’s all’s I’m saying. Ok, of course I don’t know what I would do to a guy who did this to my daughter. Speculative at this point, but I suspect being rational would not be high on my list. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/112 "2005-12-12T18:01:11Z")
He (the ex-Busgirl BF) sounds like a clueless, loser and it’s likely (and a good thing) he’ll be out of the picture. One caution, however, before you go off on him as a malevolent serial abuser is that you sometimes need to put these things in context. The first incident (as you described it) was your kid being drunk, acting out and being restrained by her boyfriend, and those scenarios can cover so much territory from controlling and abusive, to concerned and protective that to ascribe sinister “how dare you lay your hands on my child” intentions to that scenario may (or may not) be inappropriate to the specifics of what went down. WRT the second incident of him hitting her while she’s driving that’s ample cause to get the police involved, but I have to admit to you that the incident as described doesn’t make much sense to me - IE - “The short story is that he didn’t like the way she was driving and punched her in the upper arm a dozen or so times while she was trying to drive.” I can’t even wrap my head around how big an asshole someone would have to be to do this, and if someone did it to my daughter I’ll feel much like you did and want to bury him in the back yard or have him put under the jail. To put this into context, what is the longer story in the arm punching incident? Was alcohol involved this time as well? ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/113 "2005-12-12T18:03:23Z")
This thread has gone on for a while so I am wondering if your daughter actually contacted the local police _and_ left copies of those photos. As for that E-Mail, I know our legal system can be a little screwy sometimes but looking at this objectively: 1. a man’s daughter gets her arm severely and repeatedly punched, so much so that the bruises are easily visible in photographs. 2. Man sends angry E-Mail to the abusive, shithead boyfriend. It seems that event #1 could _easily_ trigger event #2. Unless our courts and legal system have become a bunch of uncaring, apathetic bastards, I don’t see how that E-Mail even remotely approaches the severity of the violence against the man’s daughter. When judged in that perspective, the E-Mail doesn’t seem to be any egregious violation of the law does it? By the way **Mr Bus Guy** I hope you haven’t torn the tag off of your mattress - or jay-walked. That’s illegal too you know. Getting prepared to rebroadcast events and descriptions of a Major League Baseball game _without_ getting permission. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/114 "2005-12-12T18:04:27Z")
> [@astro](#): > > He (the ex-Busgirl BF) sounds like a clueless, loser and it’s likely (and a good thing) he’ll be out of the picture. One caution, however, before you go off on him as a malevolent serial abuser is that you sometimes need to put these things in context. The first incident (as you described it) was your kid being drunk, acting out and being restrained by her boyfriend, and those scenarios can cover so much territory from controlling and abusive, to concerned and protective that to ascribe sinister “how dare you lay your hands on my child” intentions to that scenario may (or may not) be inappropriate to the specifics of what went down. > > WRT the second incident of him hitting her while she’s driving that’s ample cause to get the police involved, but I have to admit to you that the incident as described doesn’t make much sense to me - IE - “The short story is that he didn’t like the way she was driving and punched her in the upper arm a dozen or so times while she was trying to drive.” > > I can’t even wrap my head around how big an asshole someone would have to be to do this, and if someone did it to my daughter I’ll feel much like you did and want to bury him in the back yard or have him put under the jail. To put this into context, what is the longer story in the arm punching incident? Was alcohol involved this time as well? My ex got mad at me while I was driving once. He tried to kick me but missed. HE BENT THE STEERING WHEEL. Needless to say I was pleased he missed. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/115 "2005-12-12T18:09:27Z")
In which **Kalhoun** displays an inability to read: > [@Kalhoun](#): > > The point I’m trying to make is that the email was unsolicited by Bus Kid (at least that’s how I read it) and it appeared to me she was looking to her father for support…not to “fix” it From the OP: > [@](#): > > … She knows I sent the e-mail to him, she approved and in fact asked for my help. Yes, the issue is high on my mind as to what she’ll ultimately do. **She** is frankly, torn. She sees the rationale in taking all the legal steps to protect herself. She doesn’t think that if she does those things that he’ll respond with more anger, but probably the last week has shown her she doesn’t know him like she thought he did. What reluctance she has comes with the time passing between the incident and now. I just came from talking to her, and asked her to remember how scared she was when it happened, and when she told me. She acknowledges that the “fear” that was there has receded with time and distance. My feeling is that she needs to remember one thing, and one thing only, and that’s how the fucktard (can’t believe it took me this long to use my favorite word!) made her feel THEN. No choice she makes is going to make her be any less to me than she is, nor cost her my support. Obviously, I want for her to certain things, but I’m not, nor can I even, do them for her. All I can do now is encourage her and support her. She knows me better than to believe that I’ll run to Ohio just to start a fight with someone 23 years younger than me. I’ll say this much: The past few days are something I wouldn’t wish on any daughter’s father. I can only guess at what it’s doing to her. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/116 "2005-12-12T18:23:32Z")
> [@astro](#): > > He (the ex-Busgirl BF) sounds like a clueless, loser and it’s likely (and a good thing) he’ll be out of the picture. One caution, however, before you go off on him as a malevolent serial abuser is that you sometimes need to put these things in context. The first incident (as you described it) was your kid being drunk, acting out and being restrained by her boyfriend, and those scenarios can cover so much territory from controlling and abusive, to concerned and protective that to ascribe sinister “how dare you lay your hands on my child” intentions to that scenario may (or may not) be inappropriate to the specifics of what went down. > > WRT the second incident of him hitting her while she’s driving that’s ample cause to get the police involved, but I have to admit to you that the incident as described doesn’t make much sense to me - IE - “The short story is that he didn’t like the way she was driving and punched her in the upper arm a dozen or so times while she was trying to drive.” > > I can’t even wrap my head around how big an asshole someone would have to be to do this, and if someone did it to my daughter I’ll feel much like you did and want to bury him in the back yard or have him put under the jail. To put this into context, what is the longer story in the arm punching incident? Was alcohol involved this time as well? Point well taken on the first incident. Only the fact that she admitted she had drunk more than she likes to, was being, in her words: Really bitchy, and was a bit combative herself made me react the way I did then. Which, I said was to agree to meet the kid and withhold judgement based on that alone. The last one. Some details: They were in her car, driving back to her dorm after dinner. It had recently snowed, and as she turned at an intersection in the mall lot, she had to swerve unexpectedly wide to avoid a car parked in her way - in the lane of traffic. When she did, the car fishtailed, and he responded by yelling at her and telling her she didn’t know how to drive. This from a guy that was pulled over and sat in the Ohio Troopers station this summer, being pulled over for doing 95, and then “finding out” he was suspended for not paying TWO earlier tickets. He continues the verbal barrage. They come later to an intersection where traffic is being directed by construction workers. It looks clear to proceed, but the worker isn’t signalling her to go. BF says “Come on, just go, he’s not a cop he can’t tell you what to do”. She says no and waits. He starts “screaming” at her and once tried to push her leg down on the gas. She says stop it, and starts getting upset. Crying even. After a minute or so of this argument, she finally gets the wave from the worker and goes through the intersection. He continues haranguing at her, and punches her once on the upper right arm. She yells, cries again, and says stop it. He replies by hitting her again. And again. And teasing with “what does that hurt?” She turns off the main road onto the street where her dorm is, and stops, two blocks from the dorm. Tells him to get out. He argues but she doesn’t move the car. Finally, he leaves with some nice parting words, and yet another punch in the arm. She’s guessing 10-12 punches altogether. And no alcohol was involved by either of them this time. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/117 "2005-12-12T18:24:54Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > If this were the Law and Orderverse, BF would be so dead in a weird homicide that would lead to **Mr Bus Guy** bring the prime suspect until some weird coincidence proved he couldn’t have done it. And he was the prime suspect because the day of the homicide…_he had ordered a snow day_ and so had no alibi…highly suspicious! (sorry, BusGuy-not trying to make fun of the situation–well I am, but you know what I mean). ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/118 "2005-12-12T18:27:10Z")
OK-so my timing sucks for the light relief. **BusGuy** --this is one out of control moron. She did right to call the cops and get him out of her life. I hope he stays out. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/119 "2005-12-12T18:32:25Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > And he was the prime suspect because the day of the homicide…_he had ordered a snow day_ and so had no alibi…highly suspicious! > > (sorry, BusGuy-not trying to make fun of the situation–well I am, but you know what I mean). And thus had no alibi witnesses other than the cats that he spent the afternoon, snoring away on the couch with… ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050/120 "2005-12-12T18:44:36Z")
> [@](#): > > And thus had no alibi witnesses other than the cats that he spent the afternoon, snoring away on the couch with… MrsBusGuy, of course! (where is your head at? Don’t answer that.) But wait! She says she took that day and did some Christmas shopping, leaving **BusGuy** sleeping, clutching a rubber life-size doll… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-hit-my-kid-someone-talk-me-down/335050.md?page=7)