# "He is dead to me". Legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 25, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958 "2012-02-25T14:58:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/1 "2012-02-25T14:58:35Z")
My gf went through a very nasty divorce five-ish years ago. She has not seen her ex since. We met shortly thereafter and have been together since. I sold my house and moved in; all is cool. The ex still gets some mail delivered here. We have no address to send it to, no phone number, etc. So, the other day I suggested we try to get contact info to decrease the amount of mail that has to be thrown out. My gf said not to bother. She said, “He is dead to me”. That gave me an idea. Ever since, I have been sending mail back to sender with a short note. “Sorry to have to inform you, but John has passed away. Please correct your records, as the mail is just causing his widow heartache”. Seems to be working. His Alma mater has stopped requesting donations. His high school has stopped writing about the reunion. But is what we are doing legal? ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/2 "2012-02-25T15:09:29Z")
I’m not sure about the legality, but couldn’t you have just written “no longer lives at this address”? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/3 "2012-02-25T15:20:59Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > I’m not sure about the legality, but couldn’t you have just written “no longer lives at this address”? That’s what I do…“Return to sender, wrong address” or “Return To Sender, Adressee not at address” or “Return to sender, recipient moved, no forwarding address” but I wouldn’t say that someone died. I doubt it’s going to make a difference for junk mail, but if you accidentally do it for something financial/legal, you might find yourself in a bit of hot water if you screw something up for him. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/4 "2012-02-25T15:23:00Z")
I once wrote upon it: “Return to sender, address unknown. No such number. No such zone.” Really. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/5 "2012-02-25T16:31:41Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > I’m not sure about the legality, but couldn’t you have just written “no longer lives at this address”? This would be the obvious thing to do, I guess. But it was a messy divorce. We are both laughing and feeling good about handling it this way.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/6 "2012-02-25T16:36:52Z")
Good luck. My father still receives junk mail, and he died in 1994. ---
**Author:** ![phxjcc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phxjcc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phxjcc)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/7 "2012-02-25T17:06:24Z")
Legal? I dunno. But the Direct Mail Association (DMA) has what they call a Deceased Suppression File that DMA members routinely use when they perform bulk mailings. Info is here: [Welcome from TheDMA.org | About the ANA | ANA](http://www.the-dma.org/cgi/dispannouncements?article=627++++++) Basically, they build a list, then scrub the list with a series of files that each contains a list of “do not contact” names and addr’s. DMA members are supposed to report deceased names and addr’s (from returned mail) to the DMA to add to this list. Most solicitations are performed by third party mailers in the name of charities and other institutions, and these third parties are usually members of the DMA. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/8 "2012-02-25T17:20:40Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Good luck. My father still receives junk mail, and he died in 1994. Wow. I have not noticed any decrease in junk mail, but the more legit senders seem to be responding appropriately. Haven’t received a “sorry for your loss” note yet. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/9 "2012-02-25T17:56:33Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I once wrote upon it: “Return to sender, address unknown. No such number. No such zone.” Really. And I bet you hummed the tune while ya did it, too. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/10 "2012-02-25T18:05:06Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I once wrote upon it: “Return to sender, address unknown. No such number. No such zone.” Really. Holy crap. I always thought it was “No such number; no such soul.” Looks like it’s “zone.” How did I miss that in 35+ years? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/11 "2012-02-25T18:05:47Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Good luck. My father still receives junk mail, and he died in 1994. So does my grandfather and he died in 1986. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/12 "2012-02-25T19:42:11Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Holy crap. I always thought it was “No such number; no such soul.” Looks like it’s “zone.” How did I miss that in 35+ years? How well do you remember ‘postal zones’? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/13 "2012-02-25T22:12:39Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > How well do you remember ‘postal zones’? Not at all. Is this a concept that predates “ZIP codes”? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/14 "2012-02-25T22:17:53Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Not at all. Is this a concept that predates “ZIP codes”? Yes, the larger cities and their suburbs were divided into two digit zones. For example, part of Cleveland Heights Ohio was Cleveland 18, Ohio. When Zip Codes came along those two digits became the last two digits of the original 5 digit Zip. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/15 "2012-02-25T22:27:37Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Yes, the larger cities and their suburbs were divided into two digit zones. For example, part of Cleveland Heights Ohio was Cleveland 18, Ohio. When Zip Codes came along those two digits became the last two digits of the original 5 digit Zip. So how long did this practice continue? I mean, I guess I would have guessed that ZIP codes are a relatively modern convention, and I still vaguely remember phone numbers given as CAlumet5-7342 instead of 225-7342, but I have no recollection of zones. I was born in 1975. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/16 "2012-02-25T23:36:54Z")
My postal worker husband is wondering whether this might be mail fraud of some kind, though he isn’t sure. He suggests just writing “UTF” (Unable to Forward) on the mail and tossing it back in the mailbox for the carrier to pick up. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/17 "2012-02-25T23:43:45Z")
Off the top of my head, I can’t imagine why it would be illegal. It could maybe be fraud if you did it for monetary gain, or be on the hook for civil damages if he misses an monetary opportunity because you led someone to believe that he was dead. Other than that, I got nuthin. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/18 "2012-02-26T00:21:48Z")
I think using the mail could be construed as mail fraud, and telling telemarketers someone is dead who is not could be wire fraud. No one would be able to prove who actually wrote on the envelope, you wouldn’t be doing it for personal gain, and you wouldn’t be forging a death certificate, so it isn’t likely there would be any repercussions. But you have to watch what you write on mail. We had the local case of the woman who was sending her kids to a school not in her district so they could go to her father’s house after school, and when they sent her a notice that they were onto her, she tried to dodge them by writing on the envelope that she was deployed. That was doubly unwise. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/19 "2012-02-26T00:22:35Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Not at all. Is this a concept that predates “ZIP codes”? Yes: [Postal zones were introduced for some large cities (Chicago, for one) in 1943; ZIP codes were introduced on July 1, 1963, complete with their own mascot](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_code), [Mr. ZIP.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._ZIP) By the way, ZIP stands for Zone Improvement Plan, a reference to the former system. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958/20 "2012-02-26T00:25:04Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > So how long did this practice continue? I mean, I guess I would have guessed that ZIP codes are a relatively modern convention, and I still vaguely remember phone numbers given as CAlumet5-7342 instead of 225-7342, but I have no recollection of zones. I was born in 1975. Zip codes have been around since 1963. The word “Zip” stands for “Zone Improvement Plan”, so the “zones” are referenced by the name of their replacement. > **[ZIP Code](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZIP_code)** > > The ZIP Code system (an acronym for Zone Improvement Plan) is the system of postal codes used by the United States Postal Service (USPS). The term ZIP was chosen to suggest that the mail travels more efficiently and quickly (zipping along) when senders include the code in the postal address. ZIP+4 is a registered trademark of the United States Postal Service, which also registered ZIP Code as a service mark until 1997, and which claims "ZIP Code" as a trademark though it is not registere Introd... As far as the OP is concerned, I don’t know about the legality of that action, but you’re definitely treading on potential civil lawsuit territory. Consider yourself warned by a non-expert anonymous internet source. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-is-dead-to-me-legal/613958.md?page=2)