# He Was Born a Pauper to a Pawn, Dec 25 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 15, 2000, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152 "2000-03-15T05:37:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2001, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/21 "2001-08-18T01:14:01Z")
I thought so too! Thanks, all! ---
**Author:** ![Norfolk\_Enchants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8797f3/32.png) [@Norfolk\_Enchants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norfolk_Enchants)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/22 "2014-07-17T13:18:49Z")
Found this on Wikipedia. I was also wondering about the John/ Taupin song, but also knew of the Nietzche “Gott ist Tot.” Are we perhaps a wee bit over Anglocentric on this board. discuss. “God is dead” (German: “Gott ist tot” ; also known as the death of God) is a widely quoted statement by German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, though the phrase appears several times in the works of G. W. F. Hegel.[1] It first appears in 1882 in The Gay Science (German: Die fröhliche Wissenschaft), in sections 108 (New Struggles), 125 (The Madman), and for a third time in section 343 (The Meaning of our Cheerfulness). It is also found in Nietzsche’s 1883 work Thus Spoke Zarathustra (German: Also sprach Zarathustra), which is most responsible for popularizing the phrase. The idea is stated in “The Madman” as follows: God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. Yet his shadow still looms. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? —Nietzsche, The Gay Science, Section 125, tr. Walter Kaufmann ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/23 "2014-07-17T13:40:41Z")
'Poet of our generation? I just picked random words that rhymed…" -National Lampoon, 1974 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/24 "2014-07-17T16:38:43Z")
Moved to Cafe Society. Note that this thread was started 14 years ago. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/25 "2014-07-17T16:57:28Z")
Alvin Tostig was a German Jew born in 1920 who escaped the Holocaust in 1938, and moved to NYC (a ‘pawn’ in WWII, as it were). He was an auto mechanic. He met a nice Jewish girl and on Dec 25, 1941 they had a son Levon Alvin Tostig, named for Alvin’s father, who did not escape. Levon grew up poor (a pauper, if you will) but eventually by 1949 Alvin had enough money to open his own gar-age by the Motorway. He provided a not rich but comfortable life for his family. In 1955 Alvin had a heart attack at 35 leaving poor Levon heartbroken. In 1959 at 18 Levon, enlisted in the US Army and went to Viet Nam as an adviser in 1962, where he was shot in the head defending a Buddhist monk. He eventually recovered but the scar is visible below the hairline on his forehead. While he was in Viet nam, his mother passed away, some say from a broken heart. After returning home, he took some money from his parent’s estate, and invested it. He achieved great success when he created a factory that made wire coat hangers. Now independently wealthy, Levon was free to live life easy. But he was lonely. He spent a lot of time in his father’s now-closed garage, not and many assumed, ‘counting his money’, but missing his family and living in a funk. He felt totally abandoned and alone. In 1967 a then 26 year old Levon met a French model named Yvette and had a brief but passionate affair, which resulted in the birth of a young son on Mar 24, 1968 (the day the NYT said “God is Dead”). He named his child Jesus, because he liked the name and didn’t care if it offended any one. Yvette moved back to Paris, not wanted to have her life bogged down with children, but in 1970 she died of a drug overdose. Levon raised his son alone. Because he does not need to work, he runs a small cart that sells balloon animals to little children in Central Park, because it allows him to spend time with his son. He doesn’t really have any friends. Levon is a good father, in tradition with the family plan. But he worries one day Jesus will grow up and leave him, and he will be alone again. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/26 "2014-07-17T20:28:13Z")
**JAQ** - You should be on Wait Wait…Don’t Tell Me! (Bluff the listener challenge). ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/27 "2014-07-17T20:57:04Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Moved to Cafe Society. Note that this thread was started 14 years ago. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator Since this has been revived I’m wondering why no one corrected Liberal (Libertarian at the time IIRC) on the Three Dog Night/Your Song claim. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/28 "2014-07-18T02:23:23Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > 'Poet of our generation? I just picked random words that rhymed…" > -National Lampoon, 1974 ‘’ ‘Authentic American voice,’ can you believe that? I mean, I just wanted it to rhyme, ya know.‘’ -Bob Dylan, in a Doonesbury strip ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/29 "2014-07-18T02:31:45Z")
Am I the only one who thinks it really ought to be **Mona Lisas and Mad Hatters sons of _lawyers_, sons of _bankers_**.? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/30 "2014-07-18T04:32:06Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > Since this has been revived I’m wondering why no one corrected Liberal (Libertarian at the time IIRC) on the Three Dog Night/Your Song claim. He’s partially right. Three Dog Night released the album “It Ain’t Easy” with “Your Song” on it in March, 1970, but they didn’t release the song as a single. Elton released “Your Song” on his self-titled _Elton John_ album in April, 1970 and the record company released it as a single in October, 1970. So Three Dog Night’s version did come out first. Unarguably, Elton’s version was more of a hit than Three Dog Night’s. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/31 "2014-07-18T05:41:58Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > He’s partially right. Three Dog Night released the album “It Ain’t Easy” with “Your Song” on it in March, 1970, but they didn’t release the song as a single. Well, he was certain incorrect that it was a bigger hit for Three Dog Night than it was for Elton. I doubt that most people of the era even know Three Dog Night recorded it, yet it was a monster hit for Elton and remains very well known to this day. I was also surprised to see **Libertarian** (one of my favorite posters and one I wish was still here) appear to attribute the lyrics to Elton when he said: _“But Your Song was actually more of a hit for Three Dog Night than for Elton John. They released it first, even though he wrote it.”_ I suppose technically he’s right in that it was Elton who composed the music, but even at that Elton is only partially responsible for writing the song. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/32 "2014-07-18T05:52:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, he was certain incorrect that it was a bigger hit for Three Dog Night than it was for Elton. I doubt that most people of the era even know Three Dog Night recorded it, yet it was a monster hit for Elton and remains very well known to this day. Yes, I did say that. > [@](#): > > Unarguably, Elton’s version was more of a hit than Three Dog Night’s. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/33 "2014-07-18T06:15:45Z")
Sorry, my post was intended to be in regard to **Liberal’s** comments. I didn’t mean to imply that you thought TDN’s version was bigger also. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2014, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/34 "2014-07-18T09:44:31Z")
No problem. I didn’t even know they recorded it until I bought their anthology back in the 90s. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/35 "2014-07-19T04:34:29Z")
While we’re playing with ancient history… IIRC, _Time_ NEVER said “God is Dead” - the issue in question had, on the cover: “Is God Dead?”. Note that little squiggly mark at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/36 "2014-07-19T14:59:23Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > While we’re playing with ancient history… > > IIRC, _Time_ NEVER said “God is Dead” - the issue in question had, on the cover: > “Is God Dead?”. > > Note that little squiggly mark at the end. _Time_ magazine is not the same publication as _The New York Times_. There was a previous thread on whether _The New York Times_ ever said that God was dead: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4545189](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4545189), although I think the most likely explanation is that Bernie Taupin just made something up for the song. It seems plausible to me that he might have been inspired by the famous 1966 _Time_ cover, but the lyrics of the song cannot be literally describing that cover as they specifically name _The New York Times_. Since the song was released in 1971 and the Levon character is an adult, he also couldn’t have been born in 1966 unless the song is supposed to be set in the future. We’re also told that Levon was born on Christmas Day, and the _Time_ cover was from April. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/37 "2014-07-19T18:52:11Z")
trivia: An image of the actual Time Magazine’s cover “Is God Dead?” appears in the movie Rosemary’s Baby. The magazine is lying on a table in the waiting room of the doctor that the Satanists recommend that Rosemary see. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/38 "2014-07-19T19:59:17Z")
We were going to name our second son Levon, after Levon Helm. We shouldn’t have told anyone, because the backlash made my wife decide to look for another name. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/39 "2014-07-19T22:48:08Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > _Time_ magazine is not the same publication as _The New York Times_. > > There was a previous thread on whether _The New York Times_ ever said that God was dead: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4545189](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4545189), although I think the most likely explanation is that Bernie Taupin just made something up for the song. … As I noted, the NYT page 1 headline “God Is Dead” was Mar 24, 1968. [God Is Dead](http://wp.patheos.com/community/returntorome/files/2011/09/God-is-dead-headline-300x53.jpg) It’s really hard to find a picture, considering how famous the headline is. The NYT website has it of course, but I’m not going to pay. Anyway, Mar 1968 doesn’t fit any timeline in the song. the four points in the line: 1. On a Christmas day 2. when the NYT said “God is Dead” 3. and the war’s begun 4. Alvin Tostig had a son today (Levon) cannot all be met in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152/40 "2014-07-19T23:29:49Z")
That headline hardly qualifies as the New York Times saying “God Is Dead”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn-dec-25/9152.md?page=1)