# He was born a pauper to a pawn **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [March 24, 2000, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644 "2000-03-24T22:37:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/1 "2000-03-24T22:37:00Z")
In the mailbag item [In the Elton John song “Levon,” who is Alvin Tostig?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mlevon.html) , **David B** teams up with a peaceful honest person to, without coercion of any kind, explain some of the lyrics to this Elton John classic. ## But as always, the TM seek more info. Specifically some of the imagery in the song. Does it have meaning, or are we looking at a “blinded by the light” kind of thing? The rowdy but still mostly honest people of General Questions asked about it in the thread [He Was Born a Pauper to a Pawn, Dec 25](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/006569.html) . I wonder if any Captain Fantastic fans could be persuaded to come in and fill in some of the missing pieces. [Change Your Password, Please](http://204.95.48.199/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getannounce&ForumNumber=3&Start=2451545.99&End=2451911&Session=2451598.1854) and don’t use HTML, as it has been disabled, but you can learn about superscripts [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000795.html) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/2 "2000-03-24T22:48:00Z")
Sorry, Manhattan. I was composing my thread when you posted yours. You can delete it if you’re so inclined. Regarding your question about the imagery in the song, should we reply here, there, or at the other link you provided? 🙂 Sorry again. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2000, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/3 "2000-03-24T22:53:00Z")
> [@](#): > > You can delete it if you’re so inclined. Actually, I can’t! Alas, my awsome moderatorial powers of deletion only work in GQ. It has to do with the color of the sun or something like that. But Dex will take care of it when he gets a chance (prolly by deleting this content-free thread, not the good one you started). Come on over to GQ! I’ll go over there right now and post a link to your thread here, and you can fill in the missing pieces over there. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2000, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/4 "2000-03-26T05:19:00Z")
Minor picky point - Tostig was the Earl of the Northumbrians, not Earl of Wessex. He was one of the Godwinsons, brother to Harold, Earl of East Anglia and Essex, who at the time was sort of managing England for the increasingly ineffective Edward the Confessor. In 1065, the Northumbrians revolted against Tostig, and Harold agreed to his banishment. Tostig went off to Norway, and helped persuade King Harald Hardraade of Norway to invade England in the fall of 1066. Tostig’s brother Harold had succeeded to the throne on the Confessor’s death, as Harold II. Harold II came north and defeated the Norwegians at the battle of Stamford Bridge. Tostig and Harald Hardraade were killed in the battle. Harold II then had to rush south to face the Normans who had also invade. He lost that battle to William the Conqueror. * * * and the stars o’erhead were dancing heel to toe ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2000, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/5 "2000-03-26T05:40:00Z")
From the article, emphasis mine: > [@](#): > > He’s a \*\*peaceful, honest type of guy \*\*and led me to some background information on the song. I read this. I recognized the song as one discussed in GQ. I knew the article was written by our own David B. But somehow I completely missed the reference to everyone’s favorite Liberterian. Somebody wooooosh me. –John * * * 'Twis brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe: All mimsy were the borogoves, And the mome raths outgrabe. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/6 "2000-03-27T06:52:00Z")
**jti** [slapping forehead…] Egads, you’re right! Of _course_ it was Harold II, the King, who took on the Earldom of Wessex. I am to blame for giving David the erroneous information. I even tied an association to it with the fact Bernie Taupin is from Wessex. Of course, that association still holds since both Tostig and his brother, Harold, were of the Restored House of Wessex. I have no doubt that Taupin had heard all these stories. **Yue** Don’t be embarassed, my friend. My goof was bigger than yours! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/7 "2000-03-27T05:26:00Z")
Lib, still being picky - was Harold Godwinson ever Earl of Wessex? My source (_Chambers Biographical Dictionary_) says he was Earl of Essex and East Anglia, not Wessex. I could be wrong, but I would be surprised if there was an Earl of Wessex outside the Anglo-Saxon royal line, since the Kingdom of Wessex was their starting point (e.g. - Alfred the Great), which they expanded into all England? * * * and the stars o’erhead were dancing heel to toe ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/8 "2000-03-27T05:29:00Z")
wait, I should have looked at the entry in Chambers for Earl Godwin - he was Earl of the West Saxons, but the entry for Harold Godwinson states that he “succeeded to his father’s earldom of Essex.” Can you clear this up, Lib? * * * and the stars o’erhead were dancing heel to toe ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/9 "2000-03-27T10:57:00Z")
**jti** We might have a case of conflicting sources. “Harold II, Godwinsson was King of England for a short time in the memorable year, 1066. He had become the Earl of East Anglia in 1044. **Upon his father’s death in April, 1053, he succeeded to the Earldom of Wessex** and from then on, was at the right hand of the king. In 1063, supported by his brother, Tostig, Earl of Northumbria, he commanded a brilliantly conducted campaign against the Welsh.” [Britannia](http://www.britannia.com/history/bb1066.html) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/10 "2000-03-27T13:53:00Z")
**Lib** , I think you’re right - I checked out the Encyclopedia Britannica article on [Harold II](http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/0/0,5716,40130+1,00.html), and they say he succeeded to Godwin’s titles, including Earl of Wessex. Now I’m disappointed in _chambers_. Oh well - it happens. * * * and the stars o’erhead were dancing heel to toe ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/11 "2000-03-27T13:57:00Z")
Of course, none of this detail affects your basic point from the mailbag article - the name Tostig was “out there,” and Taupin could have used it without remembering where it came from. I’d never made the connection that you did - thanks. * * * and the stars o’erhead were dancing heel to toe ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2000, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/12 "2000-03-27T21:17:00Z")
I was really glad I could help David, whom I’ve admired as the best moderator I’ve ever known. Mind you, as a debator, he can be ingratiating, but as a moderator, he is not just fair, he is actually _helpful_. He gave me the best advice any moderator ever gave me — develop a thick skin. Anyway, when Bernie said that the name “_Alvin_ Tostig” was fictitious, he might have simply meant it in the sense that I might use the name “Sarah Fuerstman” in a short story (which I _did_ do). Yes, there is no Sarah Fuestman, just as there is no Alvin Tostig. But I did know a Fuerstman, and I just like the name Sarah. In other words, Bernie might not have used the name Tostig unwittingly; he might have used it _intentionally_, fully aware of the stories about the restored Wessexes, but synthesized it into a brand new whole name, which is indeed fictitious. He does seem to be, as I said in GQ, a consistently synthetic writer. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/13 "2000-03-28T01:22:00Z")
Lib said: > [@](#): > > I was really glad I could help David, whom I’ve admired as the best moderator I’ve ever known. Mind you, as a debator, he can be ingratiating, but as a moderator, he is not just fair, he is actually helpful. He gave me the best advice any moderator ever gave me — develop a thick skin. Just so you know, I’m printing that out and framing it. And I’m gonna point to this thread the next time somebody starts a Pit thread about me (which, if my calculations are correct, should be in a week or two). But, as a nitpick, I don’t think “ingratiating” was what you meant. Though I would accept the term, it just doesn’t seem to fit in that sentence. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/14 "2000-03-28T02:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > whom I’ve admired as the best moderator I’ve ever known. ::sniff:: ☹ ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/15 "2000-03-28T03:21:00Z")
Now don’t go and get all weepy on us. I’m sure Lib thinks you’re the _second_ best moderator he’s ever known. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/16 "2000-03-28T03:35:00Z")
_Second_ best?! When _anyone_ can see I’m _far_ more mature? ::sticks tongue out at David:: Pbbbbbbbbbbbth!!! So there! ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/17 "2000-03-28T03:44:00Z")
Dangit, now you got spit all over my monitor. First tears, now saliva. Jeez! Get a thick skin, why dontcha?! 😉 (Man, what a hijack!) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/he-was-born-a-pauper-to-a-pawn/1644/18 "2000-03-28T05:03:00Z")
Jeez Louise, can’t Lib and I have a nice chat about dead Anglo-Saxon earls without people getting weepy?? * * * and the stars o’erhead were dancing heel to toe