# Head in Assery at the US/Canadian border **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883 "2007-11-18T01:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/1 "2007-11-18T01:42:08Z")
The first story could have been written off as an anomaly. Quebec fire department apparatus responding into New York state under a long standing mutual aid agreement was [detained at the border on Tuesday for eight minutes](http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/11/14/border.firetruck/index.html). Today, we read of [a heart attack patient enroute to Detroit from Ontario](http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=057c81db-f6ea-459c-83af-689ed27771ff&k=90110), and being stopped for a secondary inspection by the Customs officials. Yes, I’ve read of emergency vehicles being stolen. However, an EV on an legitimate call would be able to have their call status validated by the dispatching authority, and relayed to the Customs folks in advance of crossing, would they not? It always worked for me when I ran fire trucks to New Jersey from PA across the turnpike bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/2 "2007-11-18T02:21:15Z")
But… but… _terrorists!_ ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2007, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/3 "2007-11-18T04:51:57Z")
It’s really simple, and normal. And not even news. Unless folks think that the US is a good place to be in, or to go to. I posted my own cross-border accident story her a few years ago. I am sure that if my mom had been hurt nowasday ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2007, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/4 "2007-11-18T05:03:28Z")
It’s really simple, and normal. And not even news. Unless folks think that the US is a good place to be in, or to go to. I posted my own cross-border accident story here a few years ago. I am sure that if my mom had been hurt now, she would be hella disfigured. It was only the quick transit across the bridge that saved her face. Of course, back then we didn’t need passports to come home. Damn it. It used to be the hardcore right wing folks that freaked out when it was proposed that a national ID was a good idea. Soon, someone will die. and the sad thing is that nobody will really give a shit, they’ll just say, "too bad, fucking border rules… Or, worse: The administrator has specified that you can only edit messages for 5 minutes after you have posted. This limit has expired, so you must contact the administrator to make alterations on your message. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2007, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/5 "2007-11-18T05:04:29Z")
Well, that sucks,. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2007, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/6 "2007-11-18T06:05:38Z")
[QUOTE=Darth Nader] Damn it. It used to be the hardcore right wing folks that freaked out when it was proposed that a national ID was a good idea. Soon, someone will die. and the sad thing is that nobody will really give a shit, they’ll just say, "too bad, fucking border rules… [/QUOTE] I’m not arguing national ID issues. This has nothing to do with politics. If I’m a Fire Chief in West Bumfuck, NY, and the West Bumfuck county command advised Customs that a truck and an engine are going to be responding from Moosefart, Quebec, to assist me, the Customs fuckers should clear a lane for the FD. Ditto for an ambulance. ---
**Author:** ![St.Urho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e7dd6/32.png) [@St.Urho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St.Urho)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2007, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/7 "2007-11-18T06:22:12Z")
[QUOTE=danceswithcats] If I’m a Fire Chief in West Bumfuck, NY, and the West Bumfuck county command advised Customs that a truck and an engine are going to be responding from Moosefart, Quebec, to assist me, the Customs fuckers should clear a lane for the FD. Ditto for an ambulance. [/QUOTE] Which, according to the article, is exactly what’s supposed to happen: > [@](#): > > Amlin said the ambulance, according to well-established protocol, received a police escort to the tunnel entrance with several intersections blocked off to help speed the trip. Tunnel traffic was shut down and, after the ambulance arrived at the border crossing, a tunnel company pickup truck with flashing lights, led it to a designated U.S. Customs lane where it was supposed to be waved through. > “We have a system set up. We are to be pre-cleared and no problems,” Amlin said. Makes you wonder if there’s been a change in policy, or if it’s coincidental douchebaggery. Either way, it needs to stop. :mad: When I worked for the Forest Service in northern MN, there was a co-response area on 5 miles each side of the border where either country’s firefighters could initial attack a fire. We had copies of our driver’s license and birth certificate on file with Canadian customs (or whoever) so the FS could call and say “Hey- these guys are on a fire in Canada.” Perhaps something like that could be part of the solution. St. Urho Paramedic, wildland firefighter Woohoo! 1,000 posts! ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2007, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/8 "2007-11-18T06:27:46Z")
You realize, all these problems could be avoided if the U.S. annexed Canada. Or if Canada annexed the U.S. – either way is good. ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2007, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/9 "2007-11-18T09:16:16Z")
This one gave me pause: [http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=passport180&date=20071118&query=anacortes](http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=passport180&date=20071118&query=anacortes) Quick summary: There’s a ferry whose route originates in Canada, then ports in Washington state at Friday Harbor, then proceeds to the town of Anacortes (also in Washington State.) US customs clears passengers at the Canadian terminal as they depart Canada… then screens them \*again \* as they enter Anacortes. Catch is, the Washington passengers who get on at Friday Harbor get screened too. In other words, people who have never left the US or Washington State are being asked to produce passports. They are also subject to a US customs search. The courts have declared these searches illegal, but they’re still doing them anyway. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2007, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/10 "2007-11-18T09:55:51Z")
[QUOTE=Leviosaurus] This one gave me pause: [Friday Harbor ferry trip turns into uncomfortable experience with U.S. Customs | The Seattle Times](http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=passport180&date=20071118&query=anacortes) Quick summary: There’s a ferry whose route originates in Canada, then ports in Washington state at Friday Harbor, then proceeds to the town of Anacortes (also in Washington State.) US customs clears passengers at the Canadian terminal as they depart Canada… then screens them \*again \* as they enter Anacortes. Catch is, the Washington passengers who get on at Friday Harbor get screened too. In other words, people who have never left the US or Washington State are being asked to produce passports. They are also subject to a US customs search. The courts have declared these searches illegal, but they’re still doing them anyway. [/QUOTE] I was recently traveling on I-25 in New Mexico, well north of the border, and at a point where you clearly didn’t have to have come from Mexico to be on that stretch of road (I was in fact coming up from Tucson), and I went through a Border Patrol checkpoint. It wasn’t exactly a high-pressure interrogation–the guy asked me if I was an American citizen, and where I was coming from and where I was going, then waved me on my way; he didn’t even ask to see my driver’s license–but I did sort of wonder, what if I had said “Yes” when he asked me if I was a citizen and he hadn’t believed me? Surely the procedure for weeding out illegal aliens smuggling radioactive heroin isn’t just to ask “American citizen?” and presume no one would ever, you know, lie. But on the other hand, if for some reason he _had_ thought I was lying, then what? I didn’t have my passport with me (not having left the United States on that trip, or having had any intention of doing so), and not all Americans even have passports. Is a driver’s license proof of citizenship? Even if it is, what if I’d had a passenger in the car; that person might not even _have_ a driver’s license. I didn’t think American citizens were required to carry “identity documents”. But, if we aren’t required to carry identity documents (when not actually trying to cross an international border) then…what was the point of that checkpoint again? ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2007, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/11 "2007-11-18T11:08:57Z")
[QUOTE=St. Urho] Which, according to the article, is exactly what’s supposed to happen: [/quote] You don’t think U.S. customs and border officials are actually competent, do you? Puh-leeze. They and the TSA are best assumed to be poorly-trained, power-mad despots until proven otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/12 "2007-11-19T00:41:49Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] You realize, all these problems could be avoided if the U.S. annexed Canada. Or if Canada annexed the U.S. – either way is good. [/QUOTE] “You mean North Montana. It hasn’t been called Canada in Years.” _- ‘Meet the Robinsons’_ (2007) ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/13 "2007-11-19T01:19:43Z")
[QUOTE=MEBuckner] I was recently traveling on I-25 in New Mexico, well north of the border, and at a point where you clearly didn’t have to have come from Mexico to be on that stretch of road (I was in fact coming up from Tucson), and I went through a Border Patrol checkpoint. It wasn’t exactly a high-pressure interrogation–the guy asked me if I was an American citizen, and where I was coming from and where I was going, then waved me on my way; he didn’t even ask to see my driver’s license–but I did sort of wonder, what if I had said “Yes” when he asked me if I was a citizen and he hadn’t believed me? Surely the procedure for weeding out illegal aliens smuggling radioactive heroin isn’t just to ask “American citizen?” and presume no one would ever, you know, lie. But on the other hand, if for some reason he _had_ thought I was lying, then what? I didn’t have my passport with me (not having left the United States on that trip, or having had any intention of doing so), and not all Americans even have passports. Is a driver’s license proof of citizenship? Even if it is, what if I’d had a passenger in the car; that person might not even _have_ a driver’s license. I didn’t think American citizens were required to carry “identity documents”. But, if we aren’t required to carry identity documents (when not actually trying to cross an international border) then…what was the point of that checkpoint again? [/QUOTE] I don’t know, but the same checkpoints are here in California NORTH of San Diego on both the 5 and the 15. The joke is that they have already surrendered San Diego to Mexico and are just trying to hold the line at Orange County. The truth is that with the topographical chokepoints (including the Marine Corps), they can supposedly catch a lot of drugs and illegals at those stops. If you do business in The OC from San Diego, you HAVE to budget for the time to get through the check points. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/14 "2007-11-19T01:39:36Z")
[QUOTE=MEBuckner] …Is a driver’s license proof of citizenship? … [/QUOTE] A driver’s license is not proof of citizenship, nor even of legal resident status. There are several states where you can get a DL with no documentation of whether you are a citizen or otherwise legally residing in the country. ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/15 "2007-11-19T02:15:50Z")
I’m a Canadian citizen who went across the US/Canada border into the US on an expired passport loaded with Middle Eastern stamps and visas. Right after 9/11. Nobody batted an eye. I found it all pretty amusing. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/16 "2007-11-19T17:52:01Z")
[QUOTE=Orbifold] You don’t think U.S. customs and border officials are actually competent, do you? Puh-leeze. They and the TSA are best assumed to be poorly-trained, power-mad despots until proven otherwise. [/QUOTE] I’ve dealt with many TSA agents, and _for the most part_ they are poorly trained, but not power-mad despots. However, TPTB direct them to enforce non-sensical rules and policies, and the agents get the brunt of the angry travellers’ ventings though they are powerless to set, make, or alter policy. If anyone are power-mad despots, it is the policy makers in our Department of Homeland Security doing their best to make themselves seem relevant by incorporate bone-headed policies left and right. Can’t speak for border agents, as I don’t deal with them anywhere near as often. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2007, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/17 "2007-11-19T17:56:17Z")
[QUOTE=KGS] You realize, all these problems could be avoided if the U.S. annexed Canada. Or if Canada annexed the U.S. – either way is good. [/QUOTE] The latter please. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/18 "2007-11-20T01:55:11Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > But, if we aren’t required to carry identity documents (when not actually trying to cross an international border) then…what was the point of that checkpoint again? This is a troubling question for border county residents. I recently heard my friend’s story about being locked up in an American jail for weeks on a return trip from Tijuana because a couple of Border Patrol agents decided to be Badass Cops. She’s blonde and she has the stereotypical Southern California accent (“like, I was _totally_ afraid to drop the soap”), and she had her driver’s license on her, but because she didn’t have a passport they wouldn’t let her go and also didn’t let her call anyone–even though they never charged her with anything. It took some serious investigative work on her mom’s part to find her, and apparently no governmental agency was particularly interested in helping her do it. Even when she physically showed up with money and documents, she had to jump through flaming hoops to free her daughter, who had lost her job by that point. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/19 "2007-11-20T13:04:03Z")
[QUOTE=MEBuckner] Surely the procedure for weeding out illegal aliens smuggling radioactive heroin isn’t just to ask “American citizen?” [/QUOTE] Of course not. The second part of the screening procedure is to ask if your radioactive heroin has been under your personal control the entire trip and not touched by anyone else. Sheesh. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2007, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883/20 "2007-11-20T15:52:35Z")
[QUOTE=MEBuckner] I was recently traveling on I-25 in New Mexico, well north of the border, and at a point where you clearly didn’t have to have come from Mexico to be on that stretch of road (I was in fact coming up from Tucson), and I went through a Border Patrol checkpoint. It wasn’t exactly a high-pressure interrogation–the guy asked me if I was an American citizen, and where I was coming from and where I was going, then waved me on my way; he didn’t even ask to see my driver’s license–but I did sort of wonder, what if I had said “Yes” when he asked me if I was a citizen and he hadn’t believed me? Surely the procedure for weeding out illegal aliens smuggling radioactive heroin isn’t just to ask “American citizen?” and presume no one would ever, you know, lie. But on the other hand, if for some reason he _had_ thought I was lying, then what? I didn’t have my passport with me (not having left the United States on that trip, or having had any intention of doing so), and not all Americans even have passports. Is a driver’s license proof of citizenship? Even if it is, what if I’d had a passenger in the car; that person might not even _have_ a driver’s license. I didn’t think American citizens were required to carry “identity documents”. But, if we aren’t required to carry identity documents (when not actually trying to cross an international border) then…what was the point of that checkpoint again? [/QUOTE] I’ve been through that checkpoint at least 20 times. I’ve only had to go through secondary screening/search once (which was, coincidentally, about a month ago). If you’re white (or at least obviously not Mexican), they normally just wave you through. They find quite a bit of drugs at that checkpoint, so they must be doing something right. Had you been driving a van with no windows, for example, they probably would have given you closer scrutiny. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/head-in-assery-at-the-us-canadian-border/426883.md?page=2)