# Heads up - mass terrorist attack in India - developing **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 26, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605 "2008-11-26T20:33:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/61 "2008-11-27T10:27:46Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > No offense, but I see this as a bit of a failure of logic. "Sure, most Muslim’s aren’t terrorists, but some are, so I’ll go ahead and paint them with that broad brush anyway . . . " So where exactly did I paint all Muslims with the same brush? ---
**Author:** ![grey\_ideas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@grey\_ideas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grey_ideas)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/62 "2008-11-27T10:37:36Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > It is no more a religion of peace than christianity has been until very recently with the various crusades and genocides from South America to entire european regions of ‘heretics’. There are a lot more recent Christian terrorist acts than the ones that you mentioned above…as have been mentioned already in this thread. Not wishing to derail the thread entirely, but one of my personal bugs is the US-centric thought that terrorism started with the 11th of September attacks and that as such terrorists are muslim (not everyone in the US thinks this I know, but I believe it’s a common thought). Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe one of the major reasons for the cessation of hostilities in Northern Ireland was that the funding from the US dried up after the 11th of September attacks. A case of “oh shit, terrorism isn’t nice when it’s happening to us…guess we should stop giving money to support it in other countries”. …minor rant over, sorry about that ---
**Author:** ![Hap\_Shaughnessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecc23a/32.png) [@Hap\_Shaughnessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hap_Shaughnessy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/63 "2008-11-27T10:41:06Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > I’m confused, **Hap**. Are you two people? Not anymore. The wife isn’t allowed on my compy again. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/64 "2008-11-27T10:41:26Z")
> [@grey\_ideas](#): > > There are a lot more recent Christian terrorist acts than the ones that you mentioned above…as have been mentioned already in this thread. Not wishing to derail the thread entirely, but one of my personal bugs is the US-centric thought that terrorism started with the 11th of September attacks and that as such terrorists are muslim (not everyone in the US thinks this I know, but I believe it’s a common thought). Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe one of the major reasons for the cessation of hostilities in Northern Ireland was that the funding from the US dried up after the 11th of September attacks. A case of “oh shit, terrorism isn’t nice when it’s happening to us…guess we should stop giving money to support it in other countries”. > > …minor rant over, sorry about that You are right about Northern Ireland and US funding. I think it was Clinton who took it seriously enough to do something. The IRA and the assorted Ulster terrorists were not fighting over religion or in the name of it. It was a nationalist dispute over borders and territories and a struggle for minority civil rights. ---
**Author:** ![grey\_ideas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@grey\_ideas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grey_ideas)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/65 "2008-11-27T10:57:40Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > You are right about Northern Ireland and US funding. I think it was Clinton who took it seriously enough to do something. > > The IRA and the assorted Ulster terrorists were not fighting over religion or in the name of it. It was a nationalist dispute over borders and territories and a struggle for minority civil rights. That’s a fair point, but I forget whether the 11th of September attacks were listed as being primarily motivated by religion or was the statement made a “you are oppressing my country” sort of thing? If the latter then that would make them fall into the same catagory as the Northern Ireland troubles, from your viewpoint. Same with these attacks in India, if a group declares responsibility and says they were fighting for freedom for their country/region/whereever then by what you mentioned above that makes it a territorial dispute rather than a religious one…_irrespective_ of whether the participants were muslim or not. It all depends on where you are standing in the argument. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/66 "2008-11-27T11:10:06Z")
> [@grey\_ideas](#): > > That’s a fair point, but I forget whether the 11th of September attacks were listed as being primarily motivated by religion or was the statement made a “you are oppressing my country” sort of thing? If the latter then that would make them fall into the same catagory as the Northern Ireland troubles, from your viewpoint. Same with these attacks in India, if a group declares responsibility and says they were fighting for freedom for their country/region/whereever then by what you mentioned above that makes it a territorial dispute rather than a religious one…_irrespective_ of whether the participants were muslim or not. > > It all depends on where you are standing in the argument. Al-Q are quite explicitly doing it in the name of Islam and cite the Koran as justification. There is no grey area or interpretation. The Troubles were not fought over or in the name of religion. ---
**Author:** ![grey\_ideas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@grey\_ideas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grey_ideas)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/67 "2008-11-27T11:24:03Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Al-Q are quite explicitly doing it in the name of Islam and cite the Koran as justification. There is no grey area or interpretation. The Troubles were not fought over or in the name of religion. Much as I hate to quote Wiki for anything, there is a passage on the [Wiki link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks) (search for “statement”) for the 11th of September attacks that reads the justification as stated was “we are free…and want to regain freedom for our nation. As you undermine our security we undermine yours.”. Yes, they also say that they are blessed or whatever by their God but if we go on their stated reason then it was to do with territorial or security reasons and not religious. I’m sure there could also be an argument made that the Northern Ireland disputes were motivated by religion to a great degree, irrespective of whether is started that way or not. How do we decide what is a religiously motivated attack and what is an attack motivated by other reasons and who gets to decide? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/68 "2008-11-27T11:41:56Z")
> [@grey\_ideas](#): > > I’m sure there could also be an argument made that the Northern Ireland disputes were motivated by religion to a great degree, irrespective of whether is started that way or not. You could make a poor and completely uninformed argument, sure. Jihad. The clue is in the name. [Bin Laden announces Jihad](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html) > [@](#): > > Praise be to Allah, we seek His help and ask for his pardon. we take refuge in Allah from our wrongs and bad deeds. Who ever been guided by Allah will not be misled, and who ever has been misled, he will never be guided. I bear witness that there is no God except Allah-no associates with Him- and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and messenger. > > {O you who believe! be careful of -your duty to- Allah with the proper care which is due to Him, and do not die unless you are Muslim} (Imraan; 3:102), {O people be careful of -your duty to- your Lord, Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same -kind- and spread from these two, many men and women; and be careful of -your duty to- Allah , by whom you demand one of another -your rights-, and (be careful) to the ties of kinship; surely Allah ever watches over you} (An-Nisa; 4:1), {O you who believe! be careful- of your duty- to Allah and speak the right word; He will put your deeds into a right state for you, and forgive you your faults; and who ever obeys Allah and his Apostle, he indeed achieve a mighty success} (Al-Ahzab; 33:70-71). > > Praise be to Allah, reporting the saying of the prophet Shu’aib: {I desire nothing but reform so far as I am able, and with non but Allah is the direction of my affair to the right and successful path; on him do I rely and to him do I turn} (Hud; 11:88). > > Praise be to Allah, saying: {You are the best of the nations raised up for -the benefit of- men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah} (Aal-Imraan; 3:110). Allah’s blessing and salutations on His slave and messenger who said: (The people are close to an all encompassing punishment from Allah if they see the oppressor and fail to restrain him.) > > It should not be hidden from you that the people of Islam had suffered from aggression, iniquity and injustice imposed on them by the Zionist-Crusaders alliance and their collaborators; to the extent that the Muslims blood became the cheapest and their wealth as loot in the hands of the enemies. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/69 "2008-11-27T11:45:27Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Remember, it’s a religion of peace. Can I base my opinion of Christians and Christian tolerence on the Westboro Baptist Church? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/70 "2008-11-27T11:52:39Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Can I base my opinion of Christians and Christian tolerence on the Westboro Baptist Church? When they start flying aeroplanes into towers and shooting up Manhattan to the approval of double digit %'s of other Christians all over the world, sure. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![grey\_ideas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@grey\_ideas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grey_ideas)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/71 "2008-11-27T11:55:45Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > You could make a poor and completely uninformed argument, sure. > > Jihad. The clue is in the name. > [Bin Laden announces Jihad](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html) Really? Are you saying that religion played no part in the Northern Ireland troubles at all? The term ‘jihad’ was used by AQ but out of curiosity, what word use would allow us to say that a Western conflict had religious overtones? Does asking God to bless our troops when they go into war mean that it’s a religious war? Culturally what is the difference? If, prior to being sent into battle, the cultural standard for Muslim countries is to prepare a long passage the likes on which is seen in your post and the cultural standard for Christian countries is to ask God to bless our troops going into war…how do we decide which is religiously motivated and which isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/72 "2008-11-27T11:59:04Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > And what percentage of Christians and Hindus are terrorists? Not too long ago there were a good few western Christian\* who you would have been a target for. Have you forgotten about the IRA already. There are also ETA and the numerous groups that used to exist across Europe. \*at the least from a Christian background ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/73 "2008-11-27T12:20:06Z")
Terrorists might be Pakistani. [Mumbai attackers may be Pak nationals: Source](http://www.indianexpress.com/news/mumbai-attackers-may-be-pak-nationals-sources/391395) [Terrorists came from Karachi via sea to Mumbai](http://www.indianexpress.com/news/terrorists-came-from-karachi-via-sea-to-mumbai/391329/) - Who wants to bet me, that we’ll soon see a flurry of conspiracy theories. The Indians did it to themselves. The Indian military. The Indian police. The CIA. The Mossad. Danish cartoon drawers. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/74 "2008-11-27T12:22:39Z")
> [@Hap\_Shaughnessy](#): > > terrorism is mostly inspired by religous beliefs; therefore all religious people are terrorists. No, terrorism is mostly inspired by religious beliefs; therefore most religion is evil. A central tenet of most religions is that our time on earth as humans is only part of a bigger picture, and the real reward will come later. What a ridiculous and destructive idea that is, and one that is guaranteed to place less value on human life. So many lives wasted, not only by religious terrorism ending them, but by religious zeal leading people to live miserable, fearful lives in the belief that they will be rewarded in the afterlife, when in reality their bones will rot in the soil, never having fulfilled the potential they could have done for one brief human lifetime out of billions of years of existence. Religion makes me very sad. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/75 "2008-11-27T12:22:40Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > When they start flying aeroplanes into towers and shooting up Manhattan to the approval of double digit %'s of other Christians all over the world, sure. :rolleyes: I think you might have been surprised at the levels of support in Ireland to some of the IRA’s attacks back in the day. This is a bullshit hijack anyway. On nearly every other subject you would be railing against generalisations but on this subject you seem to move away from your normal style of posting and get a bit reactionary. The anger and frustration seems to be grinding you down 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gouda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c77e96/32.png) [@gouda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gouda)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/76 "2008-11-27T12:25:15Z")
Gunfights still on at the 2 hotels, 20 hours since it all started. Lots of hotel guests still trapped inside their rooms, even as commandos go room to room, one floor at a time. A room at the Taj just went up in flames, it’s being brought under control. Seems to be a Pakistan angle, the navy was chasing a ship headed towards Karachi. Gotta say though, pointing fingers are Pakistan is SOP in India, very often without hard evidence. Still no end in sight. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/77 "2008-11-27T12:40:35Z")
> [@Marley23 to kitemaker\_chuck](#): > > It’s very premature, and probably a little self-centered, to go there. Self-preservation is self-centered by definition. Nothing wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/78 "2008-11-27T13:00:31Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > No, terrorism is mostly inspired by religious beliefs; therefore most religion is evil. > > A central tenet of most religions is that our time on earth as humans is only part of a bigger picture, and the real reward will come later. What a ridiculous and destructive idea that is, and one that is guaranteed to place less value on human life. > > So many lives wasted, not only by religious terrorism ending them, but by religious zeal leading people to live miserable, fearful lives in the belief that they will be rewarded in the afterlife, when in reality their bones will rot in the soil, never having fulfilled the potential they could have done for one brief human lifetime out of billions of years of existence. > > Religion makes me very sad. Bigotry and the purging of whole cultures is mostly inspired by atheism; therefore atheism is evil. A central tenet of materialist philosophy is that our time on earth as humans is all there is, and so we must get what we can while we can. What a horribly destructive mindset that is, and one that is guaranteed to hold the lives of others to be worth less than our own. Not only have atheists with political power slaughtered untold millions of people and “re-educated” others in labor camps, but the powerless ones who stew in their jealousy and bigotry are perhaps the most scary because they spew hateful rhetoric at the faithful while doing next to nothing to improve the lives of those around them through acts of charity and mercy. Atheism breaks my heart. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/79 "2008-11-27T13:58:21Z")
For someone with the username **Liberal** , you have some pretty reactionary views. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605/80 "2008-11-27T14:04:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well it would help if they weren’t in the news quite so often. It doesn’t matter what country it is, if you see “terrorist group” in the headlines it’s usually one of Mohammed’s followers. Compare that to over 2 billion Christians and almost a billion Hindu’s who don’t go apoplectic over something as innocuous as a cartoon. > > This wasn’t some random nutjob making the news, this was a well organized terrorist attack that was driven by the religion of peace. The war in Iraq is in the news every day and has resulted in many more deaths. That war was not some random nutjob as some would have us believe, it was a well organized attack driven by a country which also considers itself to be peaceful. Even though that country manages to have the most aggressive foreign policy of any country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-mass-terrorist-attack-in-india-developing/474605.md?page=5)