# Heads up young male dopers, draft boards are gearing back up!! - Will you serve? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 3, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-young-male-dopers-draft-boards-are-gearing-back-up-will-you-serve/211091 "2003-11-03T04:06:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-young-male-dopers-draft-boards-are-gearing-back-up-will-you-serve/211091/121 "2003-11-06T14:49:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*Why, the chance to build moral fibre by being forced to shoot people, of course! > > Not to mention warmer weather and a complete freedom from moose-related incidents. \*\* Quick with the pithy comments, but I notice you never answered the hypothetical question I put to you. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-young-male-dopers-draft-boards-are-gearing-back-up-will-you-serve/211091/122 "2003-11-06T17:21:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Babbington \* > **Walloon, you posted a comperhensive list on the previous page about Republican Senators who served in the Armed Forces. But James Jeffords of Vermont is now an Independent, not a Republican.** I made it clear at the top of my post that the list was of the “106th Congress (1999-2001)”, when Jeffords was a Republican. If you can find a complete list of veterans in the 107th or 108th Congresses, please post it. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-young-male-dopers-draft-boards-are-gearing-back-up-will-you-serve/211091/123 "2003-11-06T18:54:29Z")
> [@](#): > > OK Matt, lets suppose there is a country, say Freedonia, that decides that it is going to execute all of it’s gay citizens by torture. The U.S. decides that this is not acceptable and goes to war to stop it. Some U.S. citizens decide that they aren’t willing to serve in the armed forces to fight and possibly die “for a bunch of fags”. One of them shows up on your doorstep asking for sanctuary. Are you still going to be as acomidating as you are now, or is it only when you don’t agree with the war in question? So your question is… IF the United States decided to stop a country from torturing gay people instead of hailing them as their allies, and IF it decided to instate the draft in order to pursue that goal, when it won’t even give American gays their basic rights to begin with, and IF homophobic citizens decided to avoid this by coming to gay-marriage, non-discrimination-policy, gays-in-the-Charter-of-Rights Canada, and IF some of them ended up in Montreal, the San Francisco of Canada, and IF some of them decided that, despite having come to Canada in the first place to get away from having to help gay people, they would come live with two gay men, would I let them? Yeah, I’d call that a hypothetical question, all right. And the answer is no: I don’t let homophobic people stay in my house, for personal safety reasons. Please hang up and try your call again. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-young-male-dopers-draft-boards-are-gearing-back-up-will-you-serve/211091/124 "2003-11-06T19:39:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > That’s not the way a demoratic republic works and you know it. I can’t decide that I didn’t elect any representatives to impose an income tax or a 65MPH speed limit and then freely ignore those laws because the government has “no authority, no mandate” to enforce them. We elect representatives and the President to run the government. If we don’t like the job they are doing or we think they’re doing the wrong things, we elect other folks next time around. None of that gives anyone license to pick and chose what laws they want to follow. You’re not being asked to serve and die when your representatives adjust the speed limit. You’re not being asked to further someone else’s self-serving economic agenda – and impose it half-way around the world – when they put up your taxes; it’s a bit late if to vote you’re dead, or if you’re fucking up someone else’s country on behalf of what exactly . . . peace, freedom, security, no, none of those things. You’d just be a pawn, a worker ant in uniform, taking care of business for some rich dude who wants to get richer. Iraq has nothing to do with the physical security of the US or US freedoms. What is it you think you’d be serving for ? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > Any point you are trying to make would be better served by just making it instead of burrying it in a midden heap of jingoistic bullshit. Try communicating without the prophaganda and lies, will you? Reminds me of the president at that ‘Press Conference’ (sic) last week: _NYT Reporter_: “Can you promise a year from now that you will have reduced the number of troops in Iraq?” _President Bush_: “That’s a trick question, so I’ll ignore it” Excellent response. I’m convinced! ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-young-male-dopers-draft-boards-are-gearing-back-up-will-you-serve/211091/125 "2003-11-06T19:43:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Walloon \* > To show that, contrary to what you claimed, President Bush had a mandate from the American public _before_, _during_, and _after_ the war in Iraq. > > To first claim that the president needs a mandate from the American public, and then to back pedal and say that the American public is ignorant of the facts, is disingenuous. I don’t know what to say to you. If you honestly think what I wrote – as opposed to the little twist you gave it, followed by the very convincing “back-peddling” remark – was “disingenuous” then so be it. I’ll just repost this extract from that Press Release (for anyone else reading), as the link between the US media and support for the war seems pretty clear to the University of Maryland: “Such misperceptions are highly related to support for the war. **Among those with none of the misperceptions listed above, only 23% support the war.** ” - I’d ask you to think about that; among those who saw through the lies and/or misconceptions predicated by the president and media, only 23% supported the war - read the rest of the (above) Press Release for more information. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-young-male-dopers-draft-boards-are-gearing-back-up-will-you-serve/211091/126 "2003-11-06T21:13:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*So your question is… > > IF the United States decided to stop a country from torturing gay people instead of hailing them as their allies, and > > IF it decided to instate the draft in order to pursue that goal, when it won’t even give American gays their basic rights to begin with, and > > IF homophobic citizens decided to avoid this by coming to gay-marriage, non-discrimination-policy, gays-in-the-Charter-of-Rights Canada, and > > IF some of them ended up in Montreal, the San Francisco of Canada, and > > IF some of them decided that, despite having come to Canada in the first place to get away from having to help gay people, they would come live with two gay men, would I let them? > > Yeah, I’d call that a hypothetical question, all right. > > And the answer is no: I don’t let homophobic people stay in my house, for personal safety reasons. Please hang up and try your call again. \*\* So your compassion for those who run away to avoid the draft ( Your exact words: " I’m proud of my father; if necessary, I look forward to following in his footsteps; and I’m proud of my country, that eyes are still turning north for sanctuary.") depends entirely upon your not supporting the war that the draft is for. That’s all I wanted to know. Situational ethics it is. ---
**Author:** ![Omnipresent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8c91f0/32.png) [@Omnipresent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omnipresent)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-young-male-dopers-draft-boards-are-gearing-back-up-will-you-serve/211091/127 "2003-11-06T21:27:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Angel of the Lord \* > \*\*Incidentally, [here](http://www.sss.gov/Default.htm) is the website for the Selective Service, which gives a lot of information. According to that, **Joe K** , the draft is ages 18-25. \*\* Well, apologies for not reading all postings but, I just filled out a civilian on-line job application for a position at the US Military Academy in West Point, NY and in it, it mentioned that, if you were born in 1959 or later, you’d need to file with the selected service. Do the math. That ain’t that young. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-young-male-dopers-draft-boards-are-gearing-back-up-will-you-serve/211091/128 "2003-11-06T21:29:03Z")
Gee, why wait for me to even make my arguments? I said I wouldn’t have homophobes in my house, because I find it dangerous to sleep on the same side of a lock as someone who hates me, whether or not they’ve dodged a draft to get there. But I wouldn’t approve of having people press-ganged into fighting for Queer rights, either. I don’t see why I’m dignifying your ludicrous situation any further than I already have, considering I’m late for school, but there it is. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-young-male-dopers-draft-boards-are-gearing-back-up-will-you-serve/211091/129 "2003-11-06T21:35:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > **You’re not being asked to serve and die when your representatives adjust the speed limit. You’re not being asked to further someone else’s self-serving economic agenda – and impose it half-way around the world – when they put up your taxes;** Where do you think they get the funding for foreign policy? I contend that (allowing your somewhat twisted definition of foreign policy for the moment ) is exactly what we are being asked to do by paying taxes. So, who determines which laws it’s OK to break? Me? You? Everyone for themselves? That’s anarchy. > [@](#): > > What is it you think you’d be serving for ? I would be serving my country in acordance with it’s laws. It’s that simple. If I really, really thought the war was unjust, I’d go the CO route and serve my time in jail. Remember, all I’m saying is that if you can’t in good conscience serve in the military, you don’t take the cowards path and run away, you stand up for your beliefs and take the consiquences. It IS that simple. > [@](#): > > Reminds me of the president at that ‘Press Conference’ (sic) last week: > > _NYT Reporter_: “Can you promise a year from now that you will have reduced the number of troops in Iraq?” > > _President Bush_: “That’s a trick question, so I’ll ignore it” > Excellent response. I’m convinced! Fine, when talking to the Shrub, talk any way you like. You’re talking to me, and I’m attempting to discuss things rationally. The paranoid rantings of a partisan demagogue don’t interest me much at all. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-young-male-dopers-draft-boards-are-gearing-back-up-will-you-serve/211091/130 "2003-11-07T00:50:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Omnipresent \* > **I just filled out a civilian on-line job application for a position at the US Military Academy in West Point, NY and in it, it mentioned that, if you were born in 1959 or later, you’d need to file with the selected service.** Incorrect. As the Selective Service website says [here](http://www.sss.gov/must.htm), “Men who are 26 years old and older are too old to register.” Men who were born in 1959 [have never](http://www.sss.gov/IFR12.htm) been required to register with the Selective Service. Draft registration was suspended from April 1975 to the summer of 1980. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-young-male-dopers-draft-boards-are-gearing-back-up-will-you-serve/211091/131 "2003-11-07T02:02:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Carcosa \* > **People who find a law completely unjust and yet lack the fortitude to either obey the law or fight the law are cowards.** Frankly, I think a person who ignores his principles and obeys an unjust law, simply because It’s The Law, is the greater coward. BTW, fighting the law and disobeying the law aren’t mutually exclusive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/heads-up-young-male-dopers-draft-boards-are-gearing-back-up-will-you-serve/211091.md?page=6)