# Health care debate should be suspended until Brown is seated **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 20, 2010, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684 "2010-01-20T10:54:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/81 "2010-01-20T20:24:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > … But in light of the specific events surrounding this election, it’s the right thing to do. What specific circumstances? The fact that Brown talked about health care in his campaign? So what? Every special election candidate talks about their priorities, but whatever they are the business of government does not stop to wait for their vote. Again, do you have any information to the contrary? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/82 "2010-01-20T20:34:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What I meant was that it gives their Republican opponents a great campaign issue in their next election. And I’m talking about those Dems in normally right-leaning districts. There were a lot of those in the last 2 elections. I think your are over-estimating how much attention voters pay to the minutae of legislative tactics. In any event if health care is passed there are a fair number of immediate benefits that Democrats can point to (in addition to the big benefits that will take time to kick in): Here is a list from an excellent [piece](http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/dear-nervous-house-democrat)by Jon Cohn: > [@](#): > > Seniors will see the Medicare “donut hole” start to shrink. > > Families will get to keep kids on their policies past high school, until the kids are 26. > > Preventative services will have “first-dollar” coverage, meaning you’ll pay nothing out-of-pocket–that’s right, nada, zilch–when you get a regular checkup. > > People who are uninsurable because of high medical risks will get access to catastrophic policies, as a stopgap until full coverage becomes available in a few years. > > The government will set up a website with information about different insurance plans, letting people compare benefits in standardized, plain English terms. > > It will also make investments in the health care workforce–spending money to train or hire new primary care doctors, nurses, and direct care workers. > > Insurers will have to fess up about how much money they divert from patient care to overhead and profits–and to set up systems for appealing coverage denials. > > People will have the right to go to the emergency room–and women the right to see an obstetrician/gynecologist–without prior approval. ``` Republicans will attempt to hammer any Democrat who voted for the bill. Saying that they voted against it after voting for it isn't going to help them at all. And failure to pass health care is going to deeply demoralize the Democrat base much of which will stay home in November. ``` ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/83 "2010-01-20T20:35:52Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I don’t think Senator Webb is saying it’s some universal maxim that all debate should stop until a new Senator is seated. I think he’s saying that given the reaction most of the country has had to the health care bill in its myriad forms, it is in the best interests of the country to not pass it through a procedural process that most Americans do not understand or even know about. Well yeah, but that’s the _status quo ante_, and we’re stuck with it; that’s the only way health care reform was going to pass anyway. Adding one more small procedural wrinkle - why should that be a big deal to anyone who’s not a political junkie? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/84 "2010-01-20T20:40:31Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Olympia Snowe [says you’re wrong](http://www.politico.com/blogs/politicolive/1209/Sen_Olympia_Snowe_to_POTUS_Give_us_more_time_on_Health_Care.html): on Face the Nation, Dec. 20, 2009, she said: > > “I have been in countless meetings and telephone calls and meetings with the president and a number of people across the aisle.” Guess I should add this December 7 press release from Snowe’s office: [Snowe Discusses Health Care Reform Bill with President Obama in the Oval Office](http://snowe.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=6aff5e64-802a-23ad-4e44-2f2248f58ac3) An interesting definition of ‘shut out’ our friend Fotheringay-Phipps has. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/85 "2010-01-20T20:44:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Democracy is best served by respecting the election, not trying last-minute procedural manuevering to get something done. “Please don’t use a procedural tactic to stop us from using a procedural tactic to stop you from passing the law using your majority”. Hilarious. On a practical front though, I think the biggest problem the Dems have is that they haven’t sold their health plan to the public. If there was huge support for their plan, they could do all the procedural maneuvering they wanted, and there would be no backlash. But, combine the public’s ambivalence/resistance to the plan with some procedural maneuvering to get it passed, and it doesn’t look good for the Dems. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/86 "2010-01-20T20:54:11Z")
I knew the Democrats would miss their best opportunity to get this thing passed. Here’s what Obama said today: > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama is telling Democrats not to “jam” a health care overhaul bill through Congress, instead urging them to coalesce around popular parts of the bill. > > In an interview with ABC News, Obama said Wednesday that Congress must wait for newly elected Massachusetts Republican Scott Brown to be sworn into office before lawmakers move forward. Fuck. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/87 "2010-01-20T20:54:44Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > I think your are over-estimating how much attention voters pay to the minutae of legislative tactics. When they are barraged by campaign ads about it, they won’t have to have paid much attention during the process to get the message. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/88 "2010-01-20T21:00:21Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The Repubs would have to get a 2/3 majority to overcome the Obama veto. Could never happen (& in the Senate it’s technically impossible.) Obama doesn’t have the numbers now to get re-elected. If he pushes through the current health care bill those numbers will go down. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/89 "2010-01-20T21:01:06Z")
The buzz is that they are apparently trying to get Snowe on board. Can’t say I am very optimistic about that but I don’t think it’s a bad opening gambit.Obama probably needs to at least look conciliatory immediately after the election. But if it doesn’t work he is going to have to find a way of getting the House to pass the Senate bill. Do what it takes: cut any deal, twist any arms but get it done. There will be a short-term price but few voters will remember anything about legislative tactics in November. If OTOH health care isn’t passed Democrats will get slaughtered and may lose both House and Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/90 "2010-01-20T21:04:39Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Obama doesn’t have the numbers now to get re-elected. He does if he is running against Sarah Palin. I am serious. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/91 "2010-01-20T21:05:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > When they are barraged by campaign ads about it, they won’t have to have paid much attention during the process to get the message. Good attack ads have to be simple. Legislative tactics are complicated and voters don’t understand or care about them. If Republicans make ads about legislative tactics and Democrats make ads about the immediate benefits of health care, I think the latter will have the advantage. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/92 "2010-01-20T21:07:53Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Not just Brown, but the repubs think they will cut into the dem majorities in the house and senate in 2010. Don’t you think we should wait until those elections, before we move ahead? I am not so sure about that. People seem really certain that there will be some major turnover. I am not convinced. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/93 "2010-01-20T21:18:00Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I am not so sure about that. People seem really certain that there will be some major turnover. I am not convinced. I don’t think the Dems will lose control of either house of Congress, but their majorities could be very slender in each if they don’t pass health care. I mean, what are they going to run on, this fall, if they don’t pass health care? “We’re totally fucking useless, but not outright evil and crazy like the GOP”? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/94 "2010-01-20T21:22:38Z")
Let’s see, Obama and Reid have already said just that, and they are going to do just that. Normal courtesy would require just that. In any event it is going to be done. So is there any debate here? Yes, there is the debate on whether such courtesy should be extended in the event that the other side does not extend such courtesies. Personally, I think that the Senate health care bill is a tax on poor people for the benefit of insurance companies and should die. It would not “cover” one person for years to come. It is a complete waste of legislative effort. The intentional delay and obstruction imposed by the Republican minority using the anti-democratic filibuster more often than in any previous Congress and the debacle in the Minnesota Senate race with the seating of Franken suggest that courtesy is something lacking in the seating of Senators on the Republican side. My suggestion to Obama in his effort to be “bipartisan” is that he specifically mention that we are extending this courtesy even in the absence of the same in the Franken seating as an olive branch, and he would like the minority to consider the same standing down and extension of courtesies. I am disgusted with the non-partisan tone of the Obama administration. I don’t like Republican policies, but I sure can respect that they don’t mind their leaders, (dating back to President Reagan) slamming their opponents by name and constantly. That’s what politics is. I don’t think the fellow from Illinois appreciates that the same way Dr. Dean or Sec. Clinton do. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/95 "2010-01-20T21:23:19Z")
[Barney Frank: Healthcare bill is dead.](http://www.americablog.com/2010/01/barney-frank-health-care-bill-is-dead.html) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/96 "2010-01-20T21:30:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not my words, but I agree. The election was won by a candidiate who campaigned on defeating health care. Democracy is best served by respecting the election, not trying last-minute procedural manuevering to get something done. The last two senators to hold this seat were seated the day after winning the seat. If, for whatever reason, it takes longer to seat Brown, the Senate should avoid further action until Brown can join his new colleagues. Why not continue the debating and discussing, while allowing Brown to take his place before actually putting it to a vote? That way, it stays “active” while still giving Brown respect and an opportunity to vote. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/97 "2010-01-20T21:32:03Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > [Barney Frank: Healthcare bill is dead.](http://www.americablog.com/2010/01/barney-frank-health-care-bill-is-dead.html) Yep, they’re going to run on “we’re totally fucking useless, but have mercy and vote for us anyway.” Because they don’t have the guts to call a spade a spade, and call the GOP evil and crazy. And the most scary thing of all, [from an anonymous Dem Congressional staffer](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/01/relieved.php#more?ref=fpblg): > [@](#): > > The worst is that I can’t help but feel like the main emotion people in the caucus are feeling is relief at this turn of events. Now they have a ready excuse for not getting anything done. While I always thought we had the better ideas but the weaker messaging, it feels like somewhere along the line Members internalized a belief that we actually have weaker ideas. They’re afraid to actually implement them and face the judgement of the voters. That’s the scariest dynamic and what makes me think this will all come crashing down around us in November. Yeah, we’re fucked. One party’s evil, crazy, and effective; the other party’s a bunch of scared rabbits. We’re SO fucked. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/98 "2010-01-20T21:32:58Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > He does if he is running against Sarah Palin. > > I am serious. if Brown got elected in a Democrat anchor-state like Massachusetts think how popular he would be running for President. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/99 "2010-01-20T21:36:14Z")
Worked great for Romney, dinnit? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684/100 "2010-01-20T21:39:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > if Brown got elected in a a Democrat anchor state like Massachusetts think how popular he would be running for President. A majority of voters in Mass are Independents, not Democrats. And it is a very liberal state. Brown is the only major office holder who is Republican. Presumably he wants to be reelected. He cannot do that without being like Sen. Snowe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-debate-should-be-suspended-until-brown-is-seated/525684.md?page=6)