# Health Care Decision - Feet-In-Mouth, Hypocrites and Lying Liars **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 28, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588 "2012-06-28T15:45:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/21 "2012-06-28T18:12:58Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > With one nostril above the poverty line, you almost certainly qualify for the Medicaid expansion and don’t have to buy health insurance. So at least you have that. > > I agree that mandating a purchase of private insurance in a market dominated by for-profits is bad policy, but there is supposed to be other stuff in the bill for people like you. Woops. Just read on HuffPost that the Medicaid expansion (the part I always thought we needed) was made opt-in (for the state governments) by the court. Never mind, you just got screwed by the court/are about to get screwed by your state legislature. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/22 "2012-06-28T18:16:27Z")
The tighty-righties are all in a funk because they all lost their erections at about 10:20 this morning. Can’t wait to see the replay in November. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/23 "2012-06-28T18:26:34Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Obama said ACA wasn’t a tax, now it’s been saved by the fact that (apparently) is a tax. Lying Liar! The liberal hypocrisy! A mandate was a REPUBLICAN idea. It was the REPUBLICAN counter-proposal to the Clintons’ suggestion in the 1990s. REPUBLICAN. REPUBLICANS don’t like anyone to get a free ride. They don’t like it when someone “sucks at the teat” of government handouts. That’s why they wanted to make sure everyone chipped in. THEY wanted this. You can call it “tax”, you can call it “Fred”, you can call it “another lonely day”. It is what it is. Some people on both sides thought Obama should have admitted it was a “tax” a while ago, during the Congressional debates. Maybe so. To the extent that doing so might have just tipped the scales toward (politically) dooming the whole program, then any (pro-reform) complaints about its being called a tax now are a bit of a hypocrisy. But only because idiot Americans are so goddamned afraid of the _word_ “tax”. Not the reality of it, when push comes to shove, just the _word_. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/24 "2012-06-28T18:27:21Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Woops. Just read on HuffPost that the Medicaid expansion (the part I always thought we needed) was made opt-in (for the state governments) by the court. Never mind, you just got screwed by the court/are about to get screwed by your state legislature. Sorry. This is a clever plan by liberals. Red states can refuse the Medicaid expansion, then explain to poor rural Republicans in their state why they can’t have the same benefits poor rural people get in other states. Here is a big softball wedge issue for the November elections. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/25 "2012-06-28T18:36:17Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > A mandate was a REPUBLICAN idea. It was the REPUBLICAN counter-proposal to the Clintons’ suggestion in the 1990s. REPUBLICAN. > > REPUBLICANS don’t like anyone to get a free ride. They don’t like it when someone “sucks at the teat” of government handouts. That’s why they wanted to make sure everyone chipped in. THEY wanted this. Thread winner! Seriously, I didn’t know this. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/26 "2012-06-28T18:44:21Z")
> [@LoonyMoon](#): > > What the bleeding bloody damn hell is this? Foreigner pretending to be American to bitch about our politics detected. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/27 "2012-06-28T19:07:25Z")
> [@LoonyMoon](#): > > If I am living with one nostril above the poverty line (not using food stamps, etc.) and barely covering bills and groceries, where exactly do I find the cash to spend on healthcare? When you get sick, and you will, where exactly will you find the cash to spend on healthcare? No. Seriously. Please answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/28 "2012-06-28T19:08:10Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I agree that mandating a purchase of private insurance in a market dominated by for-profits is bad policy, but there is supposed to be other stuff in the bill for people like you. So, I assume that there isn’t going to be any public insurance scheme offered besides the private ones? Also : I know that mutual insurances(\*), that are extremely common in France or Germany, for instance, aren’t quite common is the USA. But are they just “uncommon” or are they plainly non-existing? (\*) FTR : a mutual insurance is a non-profit organization. It’s ran by the insured through elected admninistators. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/29 "2012-06-28T19:17:09Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Thread winner! Seriously, I didn’t know this. Yeah, it’s amazing to me that the press doesn’t make it clear that Obama’s plan was largely based on the Republicans’ plan form the 90s. It really shuts up Republicans when you point this out (but be prepared to show them links on you smart phone, if they watch Fox, they tend to be “informationally challenged.”) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/30 "2012-06-28T20:08:06Z")
I was curious to see how Fox News reported this story, so I went to their website. Under a headline saying, “Guess What’s Now A ‘Tax’” was this lede: “Before this morning’s Supreme Court decision upholding the Affordable Care Act and calling the individual mandate a tax, President Obama strenuously insisted it ‘absolutely’ was not a tax — now that ‘tax’ takes effect in 2014, and the battle over ObamaCare enters a new chapter.” Fair & Balanced, my eye. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/31 "2012-06-28T20:12:23Z")
> [@LoonyMoon](#): > > The U.S. is too big to carry a one-size-fits-all health plan; this may work overseas, but not here. It should be a state-by-state decision, AND there should be some cost standardization in place. And here I was under the impression that the bigger the risk pool for insurance, the better. But hey, I’m happy to leave it to the states, just so long as there’s a federal regulation that all states must have a single-payer system. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/32 "2012-06-28T20:25:04Z")
Now, people can go the doctor before the situation gets out of hand. You can deliver medicine to prevent major illness, medicine by the spoonful, so maybe you won’t need to use the shovel. For whichever reason. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/33 "2012-06-28T20:25:12Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > This is a clever plan by liberals. Red states can refuse the Medicaid expansion, then explain to poor rural Republicans in their state why they can’t have the same benefits poor rural people get in other states. Here is a big softball wedge issue for the November elections. Remember what happened with the stimulus package. Lots of Republican governors loudly refused the money, and then no doubt told the state legislatures to take it anyway behind their backs. However that might work here, since by not taking it they’d be letting the poor die, and since the poor vote Democratic … ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/34 "2012-06-28T20:27:12Z")
Hannibal Lecter was a Republican. Making government smaller, one census taker at a time. ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/35 "2012-06-28T20:51:56Z")
I don’t know that this really belongs here, but I’m posting strictly for the point and laugh, so what better place than the pit. [Buzzfeed](http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/people-moving-to-canada-because-of-obamacare) has rounded up a nice selection of twitter-ers that are so pissed about the SC ruling that they will move to Canada. (Some are surely ironic, but some are just moronic) ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/36 "2012-06-28T20:53:07Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The tighty-righties are all in a funk because they all lost their erections at about 10:20 this morning. Lucky for them that’s covered under most health insurance plans. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/37 "2012-06-28T20:57:21Z")
> [@otternell](#): > > [Buzzfeed](http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/people-moving-to-canada-because-of-obamacare) has rounded up a nice selection of twitter-ers that are so pissed about the SC ruling that they will move to Canada. (Some are surely ironic, but some are just moronic) Finally, the enclaves of Americans who fled to Canada after GWB’s re-election will get some ideological balance! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/38 "2012-06-28T20:57:25Z")
> [@](#): > > …because they all lost their erections at about 10:20 this morning. So that’s why porn site traffic was down ten percent this morning! ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/39 "2012-06-28T21:09:17Z")
I pit Justice Roberts and the liberals for being corporate partisan hacks. Thank Og we have four justices looking out for us on the bench, willing to stand up to corporations and tell them NO, WE WON’T FORCE PEOPLE TO BUY YOUR PRODUCT. Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Kennedy… you have my sincere thanks. You are the most principaled, reliable justices looking out for THE FOLKS. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/40 "2012-06-28T21:27:45Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > I don’t buy the argument that it’s impractical for the US due to its size, especially not when people compare health outcomes in Andorra and Monaco to Denmark… There are other federal programs which are applicable to all citizens: for instance, social security or the military are not broken up by state. Per capita funding in countries with better outcomes (and admittedly, lower populations, such as Japan’s - 40% of the US) is significantly lower. During the 1950s Russia had a higher life expectancy than the US at 75% of the population - hardly going to convince people terrified of socialist medicine though. Exactly. I am fed up of hearing the standard excuse of “the US is big so OBVIOUSLY it could never work” with absolutely nothing to back it up. Just, apparently, big countries can’t do it. The reason why I don’t buy it? Well the EU (with a bigger area than the US and a _much_ bigger population) can manage to have the [European Health Insurance Card](http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=559) and the EU isn’t even a country, it is an area made up of 27 member states (and the EHIC is also valid in 4 other countries). > [@](#): > > What is the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC)? > A free card that gives you access to medically necessary, state-provided healthcare during a temporary stay in any of the 27 EU countries, Iceland, Lichtenstein, Norway and Switzerland. > > How does it work? > When you show your EHIC, you will receive treatment under the same conditions and at the same cost (free in some countries) as people insured in that country. > Be aware that each country’s healthcare system is different. Services that cost you nothing at home might NOT be free in another country. Note, “temporary” is almost meaningless as (ignoring a few minor things regarding some newer countries) if you are from an EU country you have the right to live in any other one. You just move there and register and then you’re covered there with no need for the card. Again, this is when we’re not even a country yet the much smaller US, that is a single country with a Federal Government, can’t organise themselves a health insurance programme because they are “big”. Bollocks I say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588.md?page=3)