# Health Care Decision - Feet-In-Mouth, Hypocrites and Lying Liars **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 28, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588 "2012-06-28T15:45:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/61 "2012-06-28T23:52:03Z")
> [@LoonyMoon](#): > > Mentor and Liar: “It’s not about taking responsibility for my own healthcare. I do take responsibility for my health…” You’re not taking responsibility, you are gambling. You’re gambling that you don’t get sick or have an accident. You’ve been healthy, you’ve being lucky, but you haven’t been responsible. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/62 "2012-06-28T23:59:37Z")
> [@LoonyMoon](#): > > What I object to about ObamaCare is that it is being forced on us when so many of us been pretty clear that we don’t want it. On that basis, Congress could never pass anything ever. At least 40% of the electorate opposes just about everything. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/63 "2012-06-29T00:31:20Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Easily avoided by not having a mortgage. With Obama’s bill: you breathe, you pay. The point is; You breath, _someone_ pays. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/64 "2012-06-29T00:52:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Thing is, and this is the part the conservatives never seem to grasp, when someone goes to a hospital who has no insurance and cannot pay for care YOU _still_ pay for that person. You pay for it via higher health insurance premiums and higher health care costs. > > Your only option to avoid this is to have hospitals start carding people at the emergency room door and deny service to anyone who cannot prove an ability to pay. They can go sit on the curb in front of the hospital and die. I think most conservatives understand that just fine and would prefer that poor people be left to die (as long as it isn’t them of course). Or just have them shot out of hand. > [@amanset](#): > > Exactly. I am fed up of hearing the standard excuse of “the US is big so OBVIOUSLY it could never work” with absolutely nothing to back it up. Just, apparently, big countries can’t do it. The reason why I don’t buy it? Well the EU (with a bigger area than the US and a _much_ bigger population) can manage to have the [European Health Insurance Card](http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=559) and the EU isn’t even a country, it is an area made up of 27 member states (and the EHIC is also valid in 4 other countries). It’s part of the “patriotic” Right’s weird version of American Exceptionalism that it certain ways America is uniquely _incompetent_ and can’t manage to pull off what pretty much every other nation does. > [@JohnT](#): > > I like the people on Twitter going crazy, saying they’re moving to Canada to get away from socialized medicine. :rolleyes: It reminds me f Rush Limbaugh talking about how he was going to move to Costa Rica to avoid socialized health care; something that Costa Rica naturally does have. The Republicans don’t seem to grasp that the nations without socialized health care are pretty much restricted to America and various failed states. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/65 "2012-06-29T00:56:31Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Easily avoided by not having a mortgage. With Obama’s bill: you breathe, you pay. That’s how taxes _work_, amigo. It’s a bit of a relief that the Court relieved him and the progressives of the political need to call it something else, for the sake of fools like you. > [@LoonyMoon](#): > > When job circumstances dictate that I can’t afford healthcare, I do without it. Etc. There’s a slightly-different brand of fool that believes the need for health care is optional. Tell us, what happens when you decide not to insure yourself, and you get hit by a bus or diagnosed with metastatic cancer or something else serious? Do you say “Well, that’s the choice I made, I’m responsible, now goodbye, cruel world”? Of course not. You depend on _the rest of us_ to provide the care you need, via the extra costs we pay for emergency care for the uninsured. \*You \*are not the one taking responsibility for your life and health. _Those who do pay_ are. While you may bleat about personal freedom, all you mean by that is the freedom not to pay your own damn share, the freedom to make the rest of us pay for your own irresponsibility. As we used to say back in the old country, “Well, fuck that and fuck you too”. > [@](#): > > What I object to about ObamaCare is that it is being forced on us when so many of us been pretty clear that we don’t want it. But thanks for being perhaps the first person here ever to state that point without the words “down our throats”. Meanwhile, you might want to review who gets more of their say in a democracy - the majority or the minority. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/66 "2012-06-29T01:02:54Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > In any case, Roberts showed admirable objectivity twice today. That statement bothers me. Would you say that he didn’t show admirable objectivity had he gone the other way? If so, why? Is the integrity of a Supreme Court justice subject only to his decisions? To put it another way: had _McDonald v. Chicago_ been decided the other way a few years back, would it have been proper for me to question the objectivity of Sotomayor or Ginsburg simply because I disagreed with them? ---
**Author:** ![LoonyMoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/34f0e0/32.png) [@LoonyMoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LoonyMoon)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/67 "2012-06-29T01:09:18Z")
Duly noted. Kisses, y’all. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/68 "2012-06-29T01:47:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I think most conservatives understand that just fine and would prefer that poor people be left to die (as long as it isn’t them of course). Or just have them shot out of hand. Many of them _say_ that, especially on the internet. They love to talk the big rugged individualist game. But when push actually comes to shove and someone is dying in the street, they’re quite human. Despite all the whining about healthcare I’ve seen, I’ve never seen anyone, not even the nutballs, advocate getting rid of mandatory emergency care. That’s what creates the current Republican dysfunction; they can’t reconcile their ideology with being human. It results in horrific-to-nonexistent infrastructure for preventative care and only a basic, overworked, and expensive infrastructure for emergency care. To do anything more than a reluctant minimum would betray that rugged individualist philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/69 "2012-06-29T02:00:17Z")
Conservatives you fucking lose! Also your mothers are whores! You fail at hurting America for your own selfish ideological gain, for once. What a good day. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/70 "2012-06-29T02:13:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That’s how taxes _work_, amigo. Oh, really? Perhaps then you can share what this apparently asinine statement of yours is based on. Can you point to others taxes that work the same way? Since you think “that’s how taxes work”, it should be easy. Even for someone with your limited mental abilities. I’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/71 "2012-06-29T02:34:21Z")
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**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/72 "2012-06-29T03:34:22Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Despite all the whining about healthcare I’ve seen, I’ve never seen anyone, not even the nutballs, advocate getting rid of mandatory emergency care. May I introduce you to [Justice Nutball Supreme](http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2012/03/justice-scalia-let-them-die.html)? And on another note, forgive me if I also introduce you to **Omg a Lying Asshole** from the GD Thread: > [@SCOTUS's decision on The Health Care Law 6/28/12](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scotuss-decision-on-the-health-care-law-6-28-12/626499/156): > > If I get sick and go to the doctor, I pay the full fees. This is a load of shit. I’m sure he believes it, and it may have kept him alive thus far, but [del]if[/del] when the health issue is severe enough, the bill WILL get high enough that this will be shown to be a delusion. He would then happily make you and I pay the bill for his irresponsibility, both in the form of higher rates for our health insurance (which we are adult/responsible enough to carry) and/or as the cost to society of the multitude of bankruptcies caused by our shitty [del]current[/del] old:p system. While I’m at it… Fuck all those retards who are crying over **The Obamacare Tax** [sup]tm[/sup] _who already have health insurance_ and thus not a goddamn thing has actually changed in their life (unless you count their rates eventually dropping due to the pool being larger, or the fact that they can keep their children insured longer, or the fact that their insurer can’t drop them as soon as they get sick, or the fact that they can’t get denied insurance due to a pre-existing condition, etc etc). And fuck people who want to pretend that there are people who won’t ever use a healthcare product. I don’t immediately have a link to a Doper that stupid, so let’s just say fuck Sean Hannity in the meantime. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/73 "2012-06-29T03:38:55Z")
> [@Peanut\_Gallery](#): > > May I introduce you to [Justice Nutball Supreme](http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2012/03/justice-scalia-let-them-die.html)? I look at that transcript and I see someone who doesn’t actually understand what he’s advocating. Either that or he’s talking a big game, as above. Either way, definitely a strong implication for getting rid of emergency care. Nutballer. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/74 "2012-06-29T04:12:54Z")
Actual conversation with a guy at work today: “I can’t believe Obamacare passed! This is horrible!” “Jim, are you a Christian?” “Of course I am, JohnT. You know that.” "Great. Let me ask you a question: If a poor person came to Jesus and said that he had to go to the doctor but couldn’t pay, do you think Jesus would say: (a) ‘No, if you can’t pay, you should die’, or (b) ‘Let tax the money-changers in my Temple so that you won’t die’?\* Because if you think that Jesus would let the man die, then your opinion _is_ Christian. On the other hand, if you think that Jesus would tax the money-changers in the Temple to save lives, then your opinion is quite unchristian." “Jesus wouldn’t condone theft.” “Render unto Caesar, Jim. Jesus already covered the tax question and said taxes are neither theft nor unholy.” “… Fuck. I’m going to have to think about this.” “Not much to think about if the Bible states that Jesus finds nothing wrong with taxes, declares the holiness of assisting the poor at the expense of the rich, and believes in the sanctity and worthiness of every human life regardless of ones station in this world… or how much money one posesses.” \*Yes, I did sound out “A” and “B”. I’m rather irritating that way. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/75 "2012-06-29T09:48:58Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Actual conversation with a guy at work today: > > “I can’t believe Obamacare passed! This is horrible!” > “Jim, are you a Christian?” > “Of course I am, JohnT. You know that.” > "Great. Let me ask you a question: If a poor person came to Jesus and said that he had to go to the doctor but couldn’t pay, do you think Jesus would say: > > (a) ‘No, if you can’t pay, you should die’, or > (b) ‘Let tax the money-changers in my Temple so that you won’t die’?\* > > Because if you think that Jesus would let the man die, then your opinion _is_ Christian. On the other hand, if you think that Jesus would tax the money-changers in the Temple to save lives, then your opinion is quite unchristian." > “Jesus wouldn’t condone theft.” > “Render unto Caesar, Jim. Jesus already covered the tax question and said taxes are neither theft nor unholy.” > “… Fuck. I’m going to have to think about this.” You had me believing your story up until that last quote. Still, B+ for a good wish fulfillment fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/76 "2012-06-29T13:49:39Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Easily avoided by not having a mortgage. With Obama’s bill: you breathe, you pay. See? You still have a choice. I urge you to think it over carefully before deciding. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/77 "2012-06-29T14:14:45Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, really? Perhaps then you can share what this apparently asinine statement of yours is based on. Basic awareness of the world, that’s all. A difficult concept for you, I know. > [@](#): > > Can you point to others taxes that work the same way? All of them. Do please try looking up the concept of “taxation”, such as via Google or Wikipedia for a start. It might be easier to understand for you than “marriage”, although there’s certainly room for doubt about that. > [@](#): > > I’ll wait. You’d learn more and faster by actually _using_ the abilities you are blessed with, instead of waiting for people to tell you something you don’t find comfortable to hear. You can’t expect the rest of us to fight your ignorance \*for \*you all by ourselves; you have to take the lead role yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/78 "2012-06-29T15:05:55Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Many of them _say_ that, especially on the internet. They love to talk the big rugged individualist game. But when push actually comes to shove and someone is dying in the street, they’re quite human. Despite all the whining about healthcare I’ve seen, I’ve never seen anyone, not even the nutballs, advocate getting rid of mandatory emergency care. Not all of them – Tyler Cowen goes there: [http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2012/06/what-kind-of-mandate-should-the-right-have-supported.html](http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2012/06/what-kind-of-mandate-should-the-right-have-supported.html) Money quote: "We need to accept the principle that sometimes poor people will die just because they are poor. " ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/79 "2012-06-29T15:08:39Z")
Here’s a gem of a quote, from MSNBC: > [@](#): > > Obama voted against confirming Roberts as chief justice in 2005, arguing that he lacked a heart and had “far more often used his formidable skills on behalf of the strong in opposition to the weak." I have to say, I’m glad of the ruling that came down, and I’m happy about UHC. But if Roberts ruled as he did just to demonstrate that he’s as moderate as he’s claimed, or to counter the growing skepticism that SCOTUS is just a polarized partisan rubber-stamp… well, that’s scary to me, if that’s truly what he did. They should be making rulings without regard to how they’re perceived. If Congress keeps appointing politically biased justices, it sucks, yet I don’t see that the CJ really has the authority to do anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588/80 "2012-06-29T15:16:45Z")
People who otherwise might have died will live. Perhaps more importantly, people who would have otherwise suffered needlessly will be healthy. What’s the problem, again? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-decision-feet-in-mouth-hypocrites-and-lying-liars/626588.md?page=5)