I don’t buy the argument either, but I also don’t buy Soviet-era statistics about… well, almost anything.
I like the people on Twitter going crazy, saying they’re moving to Canada to get away from socialized medicine. :rolleyes:
Mexico would be a better bet, and their head-reattachment rates are surprisingly affordable.
Wow–didn’t mean to stir the shit so soon. Thanks, though, for the comments. FYI, I am currently out of work as so many are, hence the cash flow issue.
Foolsguinea: I don’t want to be on Medicaid. I’m not helpless, just broke at present. Meh…
Whack-a-Mole (cool name!): I get it about government services such as police, etc. I’m happy to pay taxes on all that; schools, too, even though I don’t have kids. We all pay, and it’s fine. My problem is solely with ObamaCare.
Enderw24: In answer to your question as to how I would pay for any healthcare I needed: I can either offer a payment plan, or sit on the curb and die as Whack-a-Mole suggests. Simple.
Amanset: Yup, still think the U.S. won’t work the way Europe would. I agree to disagree.
…and whoever thought I was a foreigner (I read a lot of British-y stuff, so pardon my bleedin’ bloodiness), I’m U.S. born and bred. 
All that said, we are certainly living the popular Chinese curse: “May you live in interesting times.”
You see, the thing is THAT IS NOT AN OPTION. Only a few Republicans are willing to say that people who cannot afford insurance should be left to suffer and die. Since it is clearly something our society will not tolerate (and shouldn’t, IMO), someone is going to pay for that health coverage. Right now, it gets passed along in the form of higher costs to existing insurance holders.
Instead of continuing that, this bill spells out it how we’re going to do it a little differently. You’re required to have it, if you refuse to have it, you’re going to pay for it anyway (via a penalty that realistically would only partially offset the cost of caring for your delinquent ass if you get sick while refusing coverage). If you cannot afford it, then efforts are made to provide it within some limits.
Chimera–
Joking about the ‘sit on the curb and die,’ buddy!
I’m venting. Up until now, those of us who lost our jobs just sucked it up and went without insurance without whining about it.
I’ve been lucky not to have had to go to the ER for anything. I realize that could change in a second, and I know the burden of these costs are paid for by hiking rates for everyone and that does suck indeed. Going to the ER for me would have to be one more expense to pay down over time.
And about refusing coverage? Worst case: if having health insurance costs me, say, $700 per month and I bring in $1200 per month, then the remaining $500 has to cover bills, taxes, food, etc. And can we be sure that the coverage will stay the same forever, or will it go up and up each year?
These are the things that are chapping my butt (or my delinquent ass).
Will it be cheaper to pay the penalty/tax than to actually buy insurance? Will a patriot that defies this socialist “healthcare” by not buying/having health insurance still be able to walk into an emergency room and get free care?
What kind of sick twisted fuck would think it would be patriotic to defy a “socialist” order to engage FREE MARKET insurance coverage?
Other than the most brain damaged, logic immune Fox News Gospel accepting morons, of course. Told to do that by people who have their own Cadillac Insurance Plans and are happily paying the high end penalty for having it…
Why?
I think it’s about friggin’ time we elevate health care to the status of schools, police, roads and other things that we expect to have in a decent country. Although I may agree with you if you feel that the current plan doesn’t go far enough.
If you are a single person making only $1200 a month, you are below 133% of the federal poverty level, and are eligible for the expanded Medicaid coverage, at little or no cost to you. If you live in a Red state that refuses the expanded Medicaid coverage, you still qualify for federal subsidized insurance through the state health insurance exchanges, probably at the highest subsidy level. I don’t know what the remaining premium would be, but I suspect it would be similar to Medicare, which is about $110 per month, plus $32 for prescription coverage.
What is it about “Obamacare” that makes you uncomfortable with taking responsibility for your own healthcare?
“Obama” in the name.
Mentor and Liar: It’s not about taking responsibility for my own healthcare. I do take responsibility for my health by exercising, eating healthfully and trying to avoid too much dissention (which currently I’m failing miserably at). When job circumstances dictate that I can’t afford healthcare, I do without it.
What I object to about ObamaCare is that it is being forced on us when so many of us been pretty clear that we don’t want it.
The opinions expressed by me are solely my own. You are certainly free to agree or not; it’s not my intent to sway anyone one way or the other. I was venting, and as this is the BBQ Pit, it seemed like the right place to do so.
Yeah I don’t get how the courts highly technical (and internally disputed) legal ruling makes him a liar. It might make him wrong, but says nothing on the issue of deceit.
The argument was pointless anyway. Calling it a tax or not had no bearing on how it operates.
I also don’t get why it’s called Obamacare since it was written by congress and is the result of a series of awkward compromises between the two parties. If Obama had written it himself it would have looked different. Granted he has been over zealous in defending it but still.
The problem, LoonyMoon, is what happens when you get sick (say cancer, heart attack, or even broken limbs) during periods when your job circumstances dictate you cannot afford healthcare. What do you do then, just sit at home and die?
If yes, well good for you, but the majority of Americans with no insurance still go to the emergency room and get treated, driving up the health care costs for me and increasing my taxes. You see, hospitals are required to treat you by law whether you have insurance or not or can afford it or not. They defray the costs of covering people like you by increasing the cost of the procedures they perform on people like me (who has always has insurance whether employed or not) and by getting money from the government (which pays them by taxing my income and property and whatnot). So it’s all great that you state you will do without healthcare if you can’t afford it, but I don’t believe you because that is not how it has worked in practice. I, for one, am glad the government is forcing you to be a responsible member of our society instead of a free rider on my hard work.
There are quite a few non-profit commercial insurance companies. I work for one of the largest ones that’s bigger than most for-profit companies.
One of the problems I see is the fine for individuals to not have insurance, and the fine for companies not providing insurance, is (in many cases anyway) not greater than the cost of insurance.
Easily avoided by not having a mortgage. With Obama’s bill: you breathe, you pay.
No, you are wrong. I am taxed more for not having a mortgage. The only way to avoid the tax is to buy a mortgage.
I think you are missing the point. The mortgage deduction only applies if you have a mortgage, so you breathe, you pay, unless you “buy” a product from your friendly neighborhood bank.
At least that is what I believe Fear Itself is trying to say.
And, you know, if it were a simple tax, then we could avoid that. If you are making taxable income, you pay. Just like for police, schools, roads, and all that other stuff we all like to have.