# Health care horror story #13848732 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 26, 2009, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612 "2009-12-26T08:01:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/441 "2010-01-17T02:31:58Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > [Unpaid Medical Bills Wound Hospitals and Patients - Newsweek](http://www.newsweek.com/id/170701) This one was amazing - why in the world are hospitals doing things like allowing one person to run up tens of thousands in bills and then turning around and complaining that they have to write off all these losses? I realize that article was in regards to health care, but you do realize that all of these people who are having all of these financial problems on page two will also be having trouble paying for other things? Why the, er, bandaid on health care and no dealing with the root of the problem? > [@](#): > > [http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2009/06/08/gvsa0608.htm](http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2009/06/08/gvsa0608.htm) This one started out with -“Privately insured Americans pay at least hundreds of dollars more in premiums each year to help cover the cost of caring for the nearly 46 million uninsured people in the U.S, according to a new report commissioned by the health advocacy group Families USA.” Which I find odd, since the premiums for myself and my husband have not increased significantly in years. Of course, it’s hard to know how unbiased a group called “Families USA” would be. > [@](#): > > Here a petition. If nothing else, it’s a funny read up > [http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/2009/10/08/send-a-copy-of-your-unpaid-medical-bills-to-your-u-s-senators/](http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/2009/10/08/send-a-copy-of-your-unpaid-medical-bills-to-your-u-s-senators/) Does the average American make only $25,000/year? I suppose this would be a decent income in the midwest, but in the west and I imagine the east it would be very difficult to live on this little. If it is also hard to live on that in the midwest, why is it that the average person is making so little? > [@Blalron](#): > > Curlcoat, I know that we have very different points of view, but I think we both agree on one thing: There’s a lot in this world that doesn’t please us. But being pissed off about this fact 24/7 is no way to live your life. Me pissed off? Hardly - it isn’t me that ladles on the sarcasm and insults at every turn. If there is any emotion attached to this, its resignation that I will be stuck with even more taxes, as we head into retirement and fixed income. All because far too many people cannot be bothered to be responsible for themselves. > [@Meyer6](#): > > Yeah, poor people! It’s not necessary to have McDonalds or AM/PM or any of those other places those filthy poor people work. Like movie theatres or WalMarts or gas stations or grocery stores … sounds like a fun society to me! Twit. It is not necessary _to society_ that we have McDonalds or AM/PMs. If there were fewer adults looking for work, there would be more real jobs available for them, where they can make a decent living and take care of themselves. Instead of having so many people trying to make ends meet by working at McDs during the day and AM/PM in the evenings. The sheer number of people who are out there looking for work devalues the individual, so we have adults with educations who can only get work at WalMart. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/442 "2010-01-17T02:35:21Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > And from “less work” I was supposed to _assume_ that meant significantly less money? Yes. That’s generally how it works. Unless you know of some way of having an income without working? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/443 "2010-01-17T02:37:47Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Do you not understand that unemployment and underemployment are the norm for modern post-industrial societies and it will NOT change? Yes, we will always have it, but we do not always have it at the deep level we do right now. Because of the real estate crash, which was in part due to people being irresponsible buying houses they knew they couldn’t afford. And then the taxpayer had to bail them out. > [@](#): > > Menial jobs have been part of society since Og and Ogette first started living in communal groups. As societies get bigger, there is even more need for _some_ members to do the shit jobs that the likes of you turn your nose up at. Y’see, _someone_ has to clean the toilet and make the burgers. You are just damned lucky it ain’t you darls. :rolleyes: It _was_ me, when I was a teenager and a very young adult. Then, those jobs were mostly covered by young people on their way up and retirees looking for extra income. Why is it acceptable to you that a growing percentage of our society (and that would be the US - I have no idea what is going on in your country) is doomed to work at these low paying jobs for years, if not all of their lives? > [@](#): > > Oh **curlcoat** , you amaze me with your seemingly infinite lack of understanding and insight. How a person of your age and experience has managed to get to this stage of your life still so fucking bog stupid confounds me. > > Does intellectual retardation run in your family? 😕 No, but it apparently does in yours. I can see what has happened here in the last 50 years, why can’t others? Why do they keep insist on making the same stupid mistakes? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/444 "2010-01-17T03:14:50Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > This one was amazing - why in the world are hospitals doing things like allowing one person to run up tens of thousands in bills and then turning around and complaining that they have to write off all these losses? Possibly because people in the business of actually providing health care feel a sense of responsibility and compassion towards their patients, unlike your callous interest in only the bottom line. > [@](#): > > I realize that article was in regards to health care, but you do realize that all of these people who are having all of these financial problems on page two will also be having trouble paying for other things? Why the, er, bandaid on health care and no dealing with the root of the problem? Because health care costs are a hemorrhaging wound in the economy, which admittedly has other problems. > [@](#): > > This one started out with -“Privately insured Americans pay at least hundreds of dollars more in premiums each year to help cover the cost of caring for the nearly 46 million uninsured people in the U.S, according to a new report commissioned by the health advocacy group Families USA.” Which I find odd, since the premiums for myself and my husband have not increased significantly in years. Of course, it’s hard to know how unbiased a group called “Families USA” would be. Right. Because the only possible measure of how bad off other people might be is whether or not it affects dear **curlcoat** and her husband. For whom, by the way, I have a great deal of sympathy: it must be really difficult for him to work all day and come home to someone with the personality you evince on these boards. He is really a saint, and I think he deserves to know that. [quote] Does the average American make only $25,000/year? I suppose this would be a decent income in the midwest, but in the west and I imagine the east it would be very difficult to live on this little. If it is also hard to live on that in the midwest, why is it that the average person is making so little?[/qute] Yes. Despite your claims of having been poor, I find your disbelief disingenuous here. We’re surviving – and not doing well, on about $15,000 a year. For two of us. And I’ve seen people in even worse shape financially around here. > [@](#): > > Me pissed off? Hardly - it isn’t me that ladles on the sarcasm and insults at every turn. If there is any emotion attached to this, its resignation that I will be stuck with even more taxes, as we head into retirement and fixed income. All because far too many people cannot be bothered to be responsible for themselves. My wife and I worked from the time we turned about 20 until we could not any more, and tried to assure our future. Like many others, we got fucked over by crooks in government. I would have far more sympathy for your tax burden if you had ever bothered to show any sympathy for yoru fellow human beings in dire straits. Which, frankly, you seem to feel is beneath you. > [@](#): > > Twit. It is not necessary _to society_ that we have McDonalds or AM/PMs. If there were fewer adults looking for work, there would be more real jobs available for them, where they can make a decent living and take care of themselves. Instead of having so many people trying to make ends meet by working at McDs during the day and AM/PM in the evenings. The sheer number of people who are out there looking for work devalues the individual, so we have adults with educations who can only get work at WalMart. Gee, I guess that your disability is such that you can peform all the menial labor that such people tend to perform in a normal social structure. Perhaps SSDI eligibility review people might be interested in knowing about that. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/445 "2010-01-17T05:48:58Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > This one was amazing - why in the world are hospitals doing things like allowing one person to run up tens of thousands in bills and then turning around and complaining that they have to write off all these losses? > snip. Gee, I can’t imagine…unless it’s because they’re not willing to shove patients out the door when they run out of money. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/446 "2010-01-17T06:14:45Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Gee, I can’t imagine…unless it’s because they’re not willing to shove patients out the door when they run out of money. Good idea, though. Or perhaps that’s cruel. People who can’t pay for treatment can be euthanised with a painless injection rather than be cast into the street. Millions upon millions of dollars would be saved, thus reducing the burden on the taxpayer. The bodies of the poor could even be given [compost burial](http://blogs.chron.com/sciguy/archives/2009/08/the_ultimate_environmentally_friendly_way_to_die.html). Good for the taxpayer, and good for the environment to boot! Once the procedure is accepted we could expand it for even more cost-savings – savings that would be passed directly to the consumer through lower insurance premiums. There are millions of disabled people who are receiving taxpayer money. Think of the savings if they are euthanised as well! Now, now. I’m not a monster. I’m not suggesting that all disabled people be put out of their misery; only those who are receiving disability payments from the government, and who, therefore, are a costing the rest of us money. I suspect that many of these layabouts will suddenly find that they are able to do some sort of work, even if it’s just typing on a computer, and will become contributing members of society. Only those who are truly unable to work and still receive disability payments from the government will have to go. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/447 "2010-01-17T08:26:07Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > See, this is an example of your disconnect with reality. Really poor people don’t have money to go to college, unless they get a scholarship which weren’t available to me. And even with a scholarship, I’d still have had to work full time to pay living expenses. It sounds like you lived with your parents while you went to school - I had to leave mine the day I turned 18 due to abuse. > > Not that it really matters now. By the time I was 25 I’d learned a trade and had a job that would support me and provided benefits. Apparently, you are still in school? > [@Meyer6](#): > > Nice try. I left home at 18 also and made it work, and scholarships are available to anyone who is smart enough to apply themselves and get good grades. I am still in school but my fellowship supports me and provides benefits. Any other assumtions you would like to make? > [@curlcoat](#): > > Seeing as how you didn’t contradict anything I said, I’m not sure what you mean by assumptions. 😕 “It sounds like you lived with your parents” - no, I left home at 18 “scholarships weren’t available to me” - scolarships are available to all and based on merit only “I had a job that supported me and gave benefits” - yes, so do I Can you seriously not see the contradictions there? The assumptions you make that everything must have been handed to me on a silver platter? > [@curlcoat](#): > > :rolleyes: Maybe this is the result of going to college for a living, believing everything you read. Do you no longer have a logical brain? It would seem not, since you sole contribution to the discussion is to say I’m braindead and you are wonderful… Well, if it comes to believing you or a peer-reviewed scientific paper, I know which one I’ll go with. Why don’t you provide a nice, scientific cite that states that first world humans are experiencing the type of overcrowding that limits reproduction in nature, or one that states that 2.1 is commonly a growth reproduction rate rather than a replacement one. Hell, even one that attests that multiple generations living concurrently is unusual or problematic would be good. Go ahead, I’m interested to see what you will find. I do have a very logical brain, thank you - going to university for a living is a lot better than sitting on your ass watching soap operas for a living in that regard. And I never said I was wonderful - I said I was better than you. There is rather a lot of ground between that and wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/448 "2010-01-17T08:37:31Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Yes, we will always have it, but we do not always have it at the deep level we do right now. Because of the real estate crash, which was in part due to people being irresponsible buying houses they knew they couldn’t afford. And then the taxpayer had to bail them out. We’ve had far tougher times in my living memory, and it will happen again and again. It’s how modern capitalism works dear. Have you ever done any study into the mechanics of economic systems? It’s pretty simple really, I suggest you get a book from the (free) library and read up on stuff. And whilst I am no economic-whizkid either, I’m pretty sure the blame for the current crisis rests **solely** with the major financial institutions who fucked up on all sorts of levels…and the subsequent bail-outs were for THEM and their shareholders, not for Mr or Mrs Jo Average who got burned and lost their houses. They’re still suffering…no Productivity Bonuses for those schmucks. Of course, you may correct me if I’m wrong. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/449 "2010-01-17T10:45:34Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Post is a different service. It generally brings the post to YOU. > Where as you GO TO the doctor. > > Did you ever have a problem bringing the letter to a Post office… delivery might be a problem. > > _…back to the topic at hand_ > > Doctor call outs is a completely different story and has only marginal to do with UHC. Sorry, I didn’t make myself clear. I wasn’t talking about house calls. I was talking about the fact that the plan is supposedly going to be providing healthcare to every American. My point was, the govt does so badly at managing so many agencies that NO, I don’t trust them to manage my healthcare plan. I do have insurance and I still can’t afford to have some of the medical care that I need and can barely afford the meds that I must have (inhalers for one thing, breathing is just something I selfishly need to have :D). I do NOT trust the govt to do right by either me, or millions of other Americans with this proposed plan. If, as stated by the poster above, the Post Office can’t make money because of how many people they have to provide service for, how does this plan, in which so many Americans don’t even have to subsidize it in any way (at least with the Post Office users have to pay for stamps and other services), have any chance of making it financially? If you don’t like the USPS example a much better one is the failure of the stimulus package. Obama kept claiming "we have to have this or UE will go above 8%, now it’s above 10% and we’re losing, not “creating and saving” jobs as he claimed. The math does not work. There is no way that only taxing so-called “rich” people who make above a certain amount (used to be 250k, I don’t know what he’s lowered it to these days) will cover every American PROPERLY, not even if they were taxed at 100%. And that’s a whole 'nother question here, how much is fair? 40% of “rich” people’s income? 50%? 70%? when does the amount they pay earn them the right not to be called selfish and greedy? Anyway, as to the other plan to raise funds for the plan, that of fixing fraud and abuse in Medicaid and Medicare, why are they NOT doing that now? Another example is the bank bailouts. I heard one news report several weeks ago that the govt didn’t want banks to pay back the loans for some interest reason or another. Then Thursday night on my way to teach class, I heard that the govt is hounding banks to pay back NOW, loans they were supposed to have 12 years to pay off. Of course, to be fair, those were media reports and all you ever get is a little snippet and never a good complete report. With the government managing the funds for healthcare, they WILL be managing the services and therefore will be deciding what services you can and cannot have. That’s just one problem with this plan. It’s not that A plan for non-covered people needs to be made, it’s THIS plan. It’s a badly thought out, ponderous, secretive (so much for transparency in govt) plan. The panicked frantic rush to push it through makes me VERY suspicious. Can we not start assisting those poor in desperate medical need NOW without forcing the entire country into a plan they disagree with? That is what medicaid is for after all. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/450 "2010-01-17T17:23:35Z")
I thought CURLCOAT knew that we bailed out the banks and not the people who bought houses. The fact that we just transfered American wealth and tax money to extremely rich and powerful people is fine. But the mere thought that some people can renegotiate their loans so they can continue living in the home and make payments, is a bad idea. Great. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/451 "2010-01-17T17:35:37Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Good idea, though. Or perhaps that’s cruel. People who can’t pay for treatment can be euthanised with a painless injection rather than be cast into the street. Millions upon millions of dollars would be saved, thus reducing the burden on the taxpayer. The bodies of the poor could even be given [compost burial](http://blogs.chron.com/sciguy/archives/2009/08/the_ultimate_environmentally_friendly_way_to_die.html). Good for the taxpayer, and good for the environment to boot! > > Once the procedure is accepted we could expand it for even more cost-savings – savings that would be passed directly to the consumer through lower insurance premiums. There are millions of disabled people who are receiving taxpayer money. Think of the savings if they are euthanised as well! Now, now. I’m not a monster. I’m not suggesting that all disabled people be put out of their misery; only those who are receiving disability payments from the government, and who, therefore, are a costing the rest of us money. I suspect that many of these layabouts will suddenly find that they are able to do some sort of work, even if it’s just typing on a computer, and will become contributing members of society. Only those who are truly unable to work and still receive disability payments from the government will have to go. “A Modest Proposal, Chapter Two.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/452 "2010-01-17T18:01:23Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Sorry, I didn’t make myself clear. I wasn’t talking about house calls. I was talking about the fact that the plan is supposedly going to be providing healthcare to every American. My point was, the govt does so badly at managing so many agencies that NO, I don’t trust them to manage my healthcare plan. I do have insurance and I still can’t afford to have some of the medical care that I need and can barely afford the meds that I must have (inhalers for one thing, breathing is just something I selfishly need to have :D). I do NOT trust the govt to do right by either me, or millions of other Americans with this proposed plan. > > If, as stated by the poster above, the Post Office can’t make money because of how many people they have to provide service for, how does this plan, in which so many Americans don’t even have to subsidize it in any way (at least with the Post Office users have to pay for stamps and other services), have any chance of making it financially? If you don’t like the USPS example a much better one is the failure of the stimulus package. Obama kept claiming "we have to have this or UE will go above 8%, now it’s above 10% and we’re losing, not “creating and saving” jobs as he claimed. > > The math does not work. There is no way that only taxing so-called “rich” people who make above a certain amount (used to be 250k, I don’t know what he’s lowered it to these days) will cover every American PROPERLY, not even if they were taxed at 100%. And that’s a whole 'nother question here, how much is fair? 40% of “rich” people’s income? 50%? 70%? when does the amount they pay earn them the right not to be called selfish and greedy? > > Anyway, as to the other plan to raise funds for the plan, that of fixing fraud and abuse in Medicaid and Medicare, why are they NOT doing that now? Another example is the bank bailouts. I heard one news report several weeks ago that the govt didn’t want banks to pay back the loans for some interest reason or another. Then Thursday night on my way to teach class, I heard that the govt is hounding banks to pay back NOW, loans they were supposed to have 12 years to pay off. Of course, to be fair, those were media reports and all you ever get is a little snippet and never a good complete report. > > With the government managing the funds for healthcare, they WILL be managing the services and therefore will be deciding what services you can and cannot have. That’s just one problem with this plan. It’s not that A plan for non-covered people needs to be made, it’s THIS plan. It’s a badly thought out, ponderous, secretive (so much for transparency in govt) plan. > > The panicked frantic rush to push it through makes me VERY suspicious. Can we not start assisting those poor in desperate medical need NOW without forcing the entire country into a plan they disagree with? That is what medicaid is for after all. Medicaid is for those who fit into certain economic and other profiles: [http://www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidEligibility/03\_MandatoryEligibilityGroups.asp#TopOfPage](http://www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidEligibility/03_MandatoryEligibilityGroups.asp#TopOfPage) This doesn’t mean all the poor are eligible. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/453 "2010-01-18T03:12:22Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Sorry, I didn’t make myself clear. I wasn’t talking about house calls. I was talking about the fact that the plan is supposedly going to be providing healthcare to every American. My point was, the govt does so badly at managing so many agencies that NO, I don’t trust them to manage my healthcare plan. That’s good, because nothing in the bills passed by the House or the Senate will cause that to happen. Honestly if you’re gonna bitch about this, at least do the basic homework and know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/454 "2010-01-18T07:49:39Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Yes. That’s generally how it works. > > Unless you know of some way of having an income without working? :dubious: So, you automatically assume that “less” work must mean no work? > [@Polycarp](#): > > Possibly because people in the business of actually providing health care feel a sense of responsibility and compassion towards their patients, unlike your callous interest in only the bottom line. Ah. All of big business is evil, except the big business of hospitals. Gotcha. > [@](#): > > Because health care costs are a hemorrhaging wound in the economy, which admittedly has other problems. However, a far bigger hemorrhaging wound in our economy is the tax burden the middle class is struggling with. Another huge wound is the average person’s lack of understanding of how credit works, leading to big credit debts. A current large wound is the result of far too many people buying homes they knew they couldn’t afford. Why do you insist on putting bandaids on these wounds instead of keeping them from happening in the first place? > [@](#): > > Right. Because the only possible measure of how bad off other people might be is whether or not it affects dear **curlcoat** and her husband. For whom, by the way, I have a great deal of sympathy: it must be really difficult for him to work all day and come home to someone with the personality you evince on these boards. He is really a saint, and I think he deserves to know that. Snort. The personality I “evince on these boards” is all in your head. As for possible measures, when an article states something as fact, and I know it isn’t, how else do you want me to address it? > [@](#): > > Yes. Despite your claims of having been poor, I find your disbelief disingenuous here. We’re surviving – and not doing well, on about $15,000 a year. For two of us. And I’ve seen people in even worse shape financially around here. Why would you find my disbelief disingenuous? You simply couldn’t live at all decently on that amount of money in this area, and since I was poor over 30 years ago, I haven’t exactly kept up on what is considered “poor”, particularly in the various areas of the country. > [@](#): > > My wife and I worked from the time we turned about 20 until we could not any more, and tried to assure our future. Like many others, we got fucked over by crooks in government. I would have far more sympathy for your tax burden if you had ever bothered to show any sympathy for yoru fellow human beings in dire straits. Which, frankly, you seem to feel is beneath you. Again, your idea of who and what I am is all in your mind. Just as you lack sympathy for what you think I am, so I lack sympathy for those who go thru life expecting that someone else will take care of them. I’ve spent almost 40 years paying taxes to support them, and will continue to do so until the day I die - unless we sell our house or somehow don’t have to pay income tax. Now that I am permanently disabled and my husband is less than 10 years from retirement, I am really not interested in having that tax burden added to, simply because you all think that _every_ person with a sob story _must_ be an innocent victim. And that the best/only way to deal with it is to throw more taxpayer money at it. As if that is a bottomless well. Do you not see how this country is getting worse off each decade, despite all of the social programs we have? > [@](#): > > Gee, I guess that your disability is such that you can peform all the menial labor that such people tend to perform in a normal social structure. Perhaps SSDI eligibility review people might be interested in knowing about that. This has absolutely nothing to do with what I said in the part you quoted. I have no idea what makes you think that I am capable of doing menial labor. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/455 "2010-01-18T08:30:10Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > So, you automatically assume that “less” work must mean no work. The beauty of your trolling style is that you can score cheap points on a technicality when really all you’re doing is challenging someone’s use of casual writing. Haw haw, Johnny said “if you don’t work,” so you can call him out by pointing out that maybe the guy had **some** work, and therefore Johnny’s point is invalid. Except no, you’re a fucking idiot and nobody buys this. Johnny’s literal claim: If you don’t work, you don’t get paid. Johnny’s meaning, which any reasonably intelligent human can grasp: if you work a lot less, you get paid a lot less. Congratulations, you’re a fucking idiot. > [@curlcoat](#): > > And from “less work” I was supposed to assume that meant significantly less money? **Oh** , let’s pretend we were simply confused about how _significant_ the drop in income is. Apparently you think it makes your brilliant argument _more persuasive_ if you portray yourself as too dumb to realize that seasonal work might involve _significant_ fluctuations in income. Or you are that dumb. Congratulations again. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/456 "2010-01-18T13:19:45Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Then why would it be available - who buys it? People with money to spend on it, or like the novelty of it. > [@curlcoat](#): > > That would be a bad thing? It would be kind of nice if we didn’t have to keep running off making war everywhere. On the other hand, if we were no longer world leaders, I suppose your countries wouldn’t want to buy the results of the research into new drugs and medical devices going on here, either. You don’t have to run off and make war everywhere in the world. Also… Not every breakthrough technology is made in the US. There are some other countries, like Germany, Japan, UK, France which are pretty up there as well. My brother is working in a company in Germany that produces machines for the US (and rest of the world) market… for the medical market. > [@curlcoat](#): > > As for it not working in the US, if nothing else do you realize that having one UHC to cover the whole US is like having one to cover all of Europe? If that is so great, why aren’t you all doing it? Please name one county of the EU, that does not have UHC, please… > **[European Health Insurance Card](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Health_Insurance_Card)** > > The European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) is issued free of charge to anyone who is insured by or covered by a statutory social security scheme of the EEA countries or Switzerland and certain citizens and residents of the United Kingdom. It allows holders to receive medical treatment in another member state in the same way as residents of that state—i.e., free or at a reduced cost—if treatment becomes necessary during their visit (for example, due to illness or an accident), or if they have a chr... The quality and benefits varies from each country, but it is there and the government of the EU is working on it to get the poorer nations up to scratch. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/457 "2010-01-18T14:04:41Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Do you not see how this country is getting worse off each decade, despite all of the social programs we have? We can see that. Can you? UHC is a BIG step in the right direction. More change has to happen. But you have to start somewhere. Just throwing pointlessly money at a faulty system does not work. However, UHC works. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/458 "2010-01-18T14:06:58Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **curlcoat** > > As for it not working in the US, if nothing else do you realize that having one UHC to cover the whole US is like having one to cover all of Europe? If that is so great, why aren’t you all doing it? > > Please name one county of the EU, that does not have UHC, please… > [European Health Insurance Card - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Health_Insurance_Card) > The quality and benefits varies from each country, but it is there and the government of the EU is working on it to get the poorer nations up to scratch. Well, an even simpler explanation is that the various nations of the EU are just that - _nations_. Although the member nations cede some of their sovereignty on issues such as monetary policy, border controls, etc., on other matters they are still sovereign nations. **curlcoat** might as well ask “Why don’t you have one school system cover the whole EU?” or even “Why don’t you have one or several official languages throughout the entire EU?” Point of evidence #13848732 that **curlcoat** is a fucking moron. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/459 "2010-01-18T14:22:30Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > So, you automatically assume that “less” work must mean no work? > [@ntucker](#): > > The beauty of your trolling style is that you can score cheap points on a technicality when really all you’re doing is challenging someone’s use of casual writing. Haw haw, Johnny said “if you don’t work,” so you can call him out by pointing out that maybe the guy had **some** work, and therefore Johnny’s point is invalid. Except no, you’re a fucking idiot and nobody buys this. Johnny’s literal claim: If you don’t work, you don’t get paid. Johnny’s meaning, which any reasonably intelligent human can grasp: if you work a lot less, you get paid a lot less. Congratulations, you’re a fucking idiot. > > **Oh** , let’s pretend we were simply confused about how _significant_ the drop in income is. Apparently you think it makes your brilliant argument _more persuasive_ if you portray yourself as too dumb to realize that seasonal work might involve _significant_ fluctuations in income. Or you are that dumb. Congratulations again. Yep. I think **ntucker** covered it. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/460 "2010-01-18T14:49:19Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Well, an even simpler explanation is that the various nations of the EU are just that - _nations_. Although the member nations cede some of their sovereignty on issues such as monetary policy, border controls, etc., on other matters they are still sovereign nations. **curlcoat** might as well ask “Why don’t you have one school system cover the whole EU?” or even “Why don’t you have one or several official languages throughout the entire EU?” Sorry, my bad. I picked the EU -European Union _as in United States of Europe_. Europe as such is not a country, its a Continent like America, Asia, Australia etc… It’s like America, we mostly mean the USA and not all the other countries in South and North America. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612.md?page=24)