# Health care horror story #13848732 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 26, 2009, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612 "2009-12-26T08:01:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/781 "2010-02-16T14:16:32Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > (MY BOLDING) > I’m curious. Does Canada have a reciprocal organ-donation program happening with the US? Who pays for the organ harvest? Who pays for the transportation? Is it covered by a US based private health insurance company? I can see that a Canadian UHS will pay for costs of implantation once the kidney has arrived in Canada, but who foots the bill beforehand? > > Yes, yes, I KNOW that I promised not to post to this thread evah again, but little gems like this keep me intrigued. Organ donations in the US are coordinated through the [United Network for Organ Sharing, or UNOS](http://www.unos.org/). It took a little digging to find their policy on international donations, but it’s right here in this [PDF](http://www.unos.org/PoliciesandBylaws2/policies/pdfs/policy_18.pdf), specifically at 6.4.2.1 where it clearly states that such an organ will cross the border only _after_ it is determined that there is no suitable candidate within the region in question. Therefore, since it seems there was a US person on the waiting list in the US region where the kidney originated **curlcoat’s** Canadian friend wasn’t going to get it regardless of transportation or OR or doctor issues. He/she may have been on the top of the Canadian list, but not on the top of the list in the region where the kidney donation occurred. This has nothing to do with the type of health insurance held by any party involved here and everything to do with how organ donation is handled across an entire continent irrespective of payment methods. Whenever possible donated organs are used locally as the longer the time in transit the more damage occurs to the organ. Only when there is no suitable donor in a region are recipients outside of that region considered. As there are something like ten times as many US citizens as Canadians there will be many more organ transplants in the US just due to sheer numbers. Again, that has nothing to do with the insurance/payment methods involved, it has to do with populations. The larger the potential donor pool the more likely any one person is to get a match. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/782 "2010-02-16T15:35:41Z")
Wow. So now Curlcoat manufactures a “friend” who has a rare blood type, and a mysterious non-functional O.R. or surgeon or something, who needs a kidney, and then makes up a kidney in the US that they didn’t get. (that could not have been transported to Canada anyway, since there was a suitable donor in the US). She makes up details as she goes along, and in the process, digs the hole deeper. What a sad,lying, trolling pathetic sack of shit. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/783 "2010-02-16T16:37:49Z")
I’m skipping past her posts, **Euphonious Polemic** , so I don’t have any means of checking, but do you have any evidence that she manufactured this acquaintance? ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/784 "2010-02-16T16:52:24Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Not that I care whether you believe me or not, but you are showing that you don’t understand how these things work. A person cannot take just any old kidney, it has to fit his blood type. My friend happens to have a rare type, and the one kidney that he could have used in those 2+ years, he couldn’t get (I forget which) a surgeon or an OR in time, so someone in the States got that kidney (the kidney was in the States). > > However, if you wish to continue to look like a twit, he lives in Ontario, near Toronto. Let me know what you find out. And you think this is different in the States? You brought up this ‘friend’ in Canada to prove how shit the Canadian health care system is, in your estimation. But organ donation is a tricky thing in any country - due to increased survival rates of traffic accidents and so on, there are less healthy donors, and therefore less organs to go around. Also, mortality while waiting for organs is high, and end-stage renal disease is particularly serious. In the US, [46%](http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=101325) of patients die waiting for a kidney. The average wait time is [3 years](http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/kustats/), and there are about [80,000](http://www.utdol.com/patients/content/topic.do?topicKey=~BOtOBPFMm8UFTmL) people waiting for kidneys. Serious waits are a reality the world over. Also, there is no ‘top of the list’ - a person is only considered if they match all the criteria (blood type, patient size, geographic area, etc.). It’s not like there is some big list you move up. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/785 "2010-02-16T16:59:35Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You know what’s unreal? The way that you cannot or will not understand the simple things that I post. Nowhere did I say anything like “Just sitting back and saying it’s fine for insurance companies to screw people”. This is why I say that you deflect and don’t speak to the subject, when you come back with things that are nothing close to what I have said. It is obvious that I don’t think it’s fine for insurance companies, or any company, to screw people when I have posted things like contacting the insurance commissioner several times. I’m starting to think you don’t understand what the word ‘deflect’ means. You shouldn’t _have_ to ‘contact the insurance comissioner’, you shouldn’t get screwed in the first place. The fact that there are ways to get unscrewed, ways that can take months or longer at a time when you are often highly vulnerable, does not mitigate the fact that you got screwed in the first place. > [@](#): > > And your definition of temporary is what? The poster in question said she was in school. You yourself said a government sponsored education was okay because it lead to productive work in the future. So, she is making use of the existing government programs, _which she is perfectly qualified to use_, in order to ensure her children stay healthy so that she can acquire an education. What is your definition of non-temporary? Please provide a good cite which shows that most people getting government assistance will get it for the rest of their lives, because that seems to be your arguement. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/786 "2010-02-16T17:19:05Z")
Yeah, I’m out again. I’m standing by my earlier comment not just a troll, but a fucking sociopath. Because only a sociopath could be so completely inured to any sort of connection with other people and utterly incapable of occasionally tempering their own bullshit in consideration of social mores. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/787 "2010-02-16T17:35:30Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m skipping past her posts, **Euphonious Polemic** , so I don’t have any means of checking, but do you have any evidence that she manufactured this acquaintance? Nope, just a gut feeling that she’s making shit up as she goes along, to try to provide “evidence” I mean, suddenly the “friend” now has a rare blood type? And there was “some reason” they could not get a kidney? And they were at the “top” of a list (when there is no “top” of any list). And they had access to a kidney in the USA (when this is not even possible) It’s just too craptastic to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/788 "2010-02-16T17:54:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Nope, just a gut feeling that she’s making shit up as she goes along, to try to provide “evidence” > > I mean, suddenly the “friend” now has a rare blood type? And there was “some reason” they could not get a kidney? And they were at the “top” of a list (when there is no “top” of any list). And they had access to a kidney in the USA (when this is not even possible) > > It’s just too craptastic to believe. Yeah, and they live near Toronto but couldn’t get a surgeon or OR. In Canada’s largest city. Right. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/789 "2010-02-16T17:59:43Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Yeah, and they live near Toronto but couldn’t get a surgeon or OR. In Canada’s largest city. Right. Probably because the surgeon was a socialist. Or he was busy eating a napkin sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/790 "2010-02-16T18:08:10Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Probably because the surgeon was a socialist. Or he was busy eating a napkin sandwich. No he quit because they don’t pay surgeons enough in Toronto. He’s is now happily working at MacDonald’s where his pay isn’t capped by the evil government. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/791 "2010-02-17T03:57:39Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > (MY BOLDING) > I’m curious. Does Canada have a reciprocal organ-donation program happening with the US? Who pays for the organ harvest? Who pays for the transportation? Is it covered by a US based private health insurance company? I can see that a Canadian UHS will pay for costs of implantation once the kidney has arrived in Canada, but who foots the bill beforehand? I have no idea - all I was told was that there was this kidney available in his blood type, but he wasn’t able to accept it due to not being able to get a surgeon or OR. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Therefore, since it seems there was a US person on the waiting list in the US region where the kidney originated Huh. There was a US person on the waiting list in the area that the kidney originated that had my friends blood type? You know this how? I’m thinking since he was offered this kidney, there _wasn’t_ someone in the area that would match it but then what do I know? > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m skipping past her posts, **Euphonious Polemic** , so I don’t have any means of checking, but do you have any evidence that she manufactured this acquaintance? No, of course not, they just like to make shit up, such as **Broomstick** stating with conviction that there was someone in the area that the kidney came from that matched it, even tho she has zero idea where the kidney came from. Or when it was. Or what the blood type was. > [@Meyer6](#): > > Serious waits are a reality the world over. What does any of that have to do with not being able to take an offered kidney because you can’t get a doctor to put it in you? > [@](#): > > Also, there is no ‘top of the list’ - a person is only considered if they match all the criteria (blood type, patient size, geographic area, etc.). It’s not like there is some big list you move up. OK, fine, be picky with my shorthand. My friend is “at the top of the list” of those with his blood type, age, area and however it is they term the need, since he’s been on dialysis for quite some time. That better? ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/792 "2010-02-17T04:35:27Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Huh. There was a US person on the waiting list in the area that the kidney originated that had my friends blood type? You know this how? I’m thinking since he was offered this kidney, there _wasn’t_ someone in the area that would match it but then what do I know? Hmmm, where would gotten this idea? > [@curlcoat](#): > > My friend happens to have a rare type, and the one kidney that he could have used in those 2+ years, he couldn’t get (I forget which) a surgeon or an OR in time, so someone in the States got that kidney (the kidney was in the States). The kidney was in the States. Someone in the States got the kidney in the end. So there must have been someone on the list and nearby enough that the kidney could be gotten to them within a short timeframe. Ergo, that is how we know that there was a US person on the waiting list for a kidney. Unless you think that they just pulled some mope in off the street and forcibly transplanted a kidney into them. Seriously, I know you’re not really reading what the rest of us are writing, but can you at least try to remember what _you_ wrote. It was even on this page! In any case, **Broomstick** has pretty conclusively shown that a Canadian wouldn’t get an American kidney under these circumstances, so I’m pretty sure you’re making all this up. At the very least your ‘friend’ is lying to you or misunderstanding the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/793 "2010-02-17T04:47:15Z")
Curlcoat is stuck in a solipsistic loop in which she is the only inhabitant of her own closed universe where nothing anyone else says matters. She just keeps repeating her delusion to herself over and over again, reinforcing it with each iteration. Call the men in the white coats! And bring napkin sandwiches to lure her out! ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/794 "2010-02-17T05:05:23Z")
What do you think the chances are that **curlcoat** will ever have the balls to mention napkin sandwiches again? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/795 "2010-02-17T07:41:47Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > I’m starting to think you don’t understand what the word ‘deflect’ means. From [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) - “to bend or turn aside; turn from a true course or straight line; swerve.” As in, trying to turn the discussion aside from a direction you are uncomfortable with or cannot come up with an answer for. > [@](#): > > You shouldn’t _have_ to ‘contact the insurance comissioner’, you shouldn’t get screwed in the first place. The fact that there are ways to get unscrewed, ways that can take months or longer at a time when you are often highly vulnerable, does not mitigate the fact that you got screwed in the first place. No one should have to be poor, gas prices shouldn’t be any where near where they are and Big Business should quit polluting our air. Gonna point out that those aren’t fair too? Do you want (this fictional) completely fair and well run government to do everything for you? > [@](#): > > The poster in question said she was in school. You yourself said a government sponsored education was okay because it lead to productive work in the future. So, she is making use of the existing government programs, _which she is perfectly qualified to use_, in order to ensure her children stay healthy so that she can acquire an education. Boy, you really can’t stay on point can you? Whether or not she decided to get an education after having had two children that she couldn’t afford to raise is not the issue. If she had any shred of responsibility she’d have made sure she could keep her children healthy _before_ she had them, instead of just selfishly doing whatever she wanted to, when she wanted to. > [@](#): > > What is your definition of non-temporary? Please provide a good cite which shows that most people getting government assistance will get it for the rest of their lives, because that seems to be your arguement. Huh, something else I haven’t said. > [@tumbleddown](#): > > Yeah, I’m out again. I’m standing by my earlier comment not just a troll, but a fucking sociopath. Because only a sociopath could be so completely inured to any sort of connection with other people and utterly incapable of occasionally tempering their own bullshit in consideration of social mores. Simply because I point out that there are options other than having children you cannot afford doesn’t make me a sociopath. Nor will I even pay attention to any attempt at emotional blackmail. I certainly won’t miss your tantrums on the subject. Your hypersensitivity on the subject of children is no more valid than my lack of interest in them. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/796 "2010-02-17T07:49:54Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > The kidney was in the States. Someone in the States got the kidney in the end. So there must have been someone on the list and nearby enough that the kidney could be gotten to them within a short timeframe. You missed or conveniently ignore the statement from **Broomstick** that there was someone “in the US region where the kidney originated”, which apparently wasn’t true since it was offered to Toronto. I don’t know where it actually ended up, but I doubt there is a tight range it could have gone to, what with airplanes and all of that being available. > [@](#): > > In any case, **Broomstick** has pretty conclusively shown that a Canadian wouldn’t get an American kidney under these circumstances. Yeah? When did she do that? > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > She just keeps repeating her delusion to herself over and over again, reinforcing it with each iteration. Funny how my “delusions” are shared by so many people. Of course, I suppose since you all continue to repeat things that aren’t even true, I guess you might be more familiar with delusions than I am. > [@Meyer6](#): > > What do you think the chances are that **curlcoat** will ever have the balls to mention napkin sandwiches again? Napkin sandwiches. Now what? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/797 "2010-02-17T11:30:16Z")
Now say ‘rubber baby buggy bumpers’. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/798 "2010-02-17T14:23:37Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > No one should have to be poor, gas prices shouldn’t be any where near where they are and Big Business should quit polluting our air. Gonna point out that those aren’t fair too? Do you want (this fictional) completely fair and well run government to do everything for you? Wanting for people not to get screwed by big business is not the same as wanting things to be fair for everyone. Life isn’t fair - I know that, everyone knows that. That’s not an excuse for pushing the little guy down and trampling all over them. And in this case, the little guy is anyone who is not the insuance company. You keep accusing us of wanting everything to be ‘fair’, when I don’t remember any of us using that word. Equal access to things like health care and education are not going to make life ‘fair’ for everyone, but they do allow people with intelligence and drive to reach their potential. America is always touted as a place where anyone can be great, provided they work hard, but it’s pretty clear that a small minority have way more chances at that greatness, and people like you want to keep it that way. After all, do you think it’s ‘fair’ that you ended up with your cushy upper class existence, when clearly you have done nothing to deserve it? You just wandered into the situation and now you’ll be damned if anyone else gets to join you. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/799 "2010-02-17T14:40:07Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You missed or conveniently ignore the statement from **Broomstick** that there was someone “in the US region where the kidney originated”, which apparently wasn’t true since it was offered to Toronto. I don’t know where it actually ended up, but I doubt there is a tight range it could have gone to, what with airplanes and all of that being available. From **Broomstick** s cite: > [@UNOS](#): > > Exportation of organs from the United States or its territories is prohibited unless a well documented and verifiable effort, coordinated through the Organ Center, has failed to find a suitable recipient for that organ on the Waiting List. Do you see how that does not jive with what you said? For your scenario to be true, they would have had to find no matches on the US list, offered it to Canada, had the kidney denied in Canada, and then surprise!, found someone on the US list after all. This is totally inconsistent with their stated policies. You should have said the kidney just went to waste, that would have made the story much more believable. Work on your lying skills. > [@](#): > > Napkin sandwiches. Now what? :dubious: Okay, you got me there. :rolleyes: But for me to be really satisfied you have to tell us how we ‘don’t know what poverty really is’ if we haven’t personally eaten napkin sandwiches. And tell us if you actually ate the napkin or not. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612/800 "2010-02-17T15:47:18Z")
> **[Most Outrageous Examples Of Health Insurers Denying Coverage (PHOTOS)](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/most-outrageous-examples_n_464984)** > > Most Outrageous Examples Of Health Insurers Denying Coverage (PHOTOS) Here are a few ridiculous cases of insurance companies denying coverage. CURLCOAT, you do understand that UHC will make insurance cheaper don’t you. The reason we are trying to change health care is because it costs too damn much while delivering too damn little. You talk like the health care bill will cost you personally ,a lot of money. But, it actually is designed to cut costs. Our present system is unsustainable because of cost and delivery problems . It just keeps going up, up, up in cost. You are able to recognize that fact, can’t you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-horror-story-13848732/522612.md?page=41)