# Health care law question (no political jabs allowed) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 28, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595 "2012-06-28T16:12:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/41 "2012-06-29T18:36:57Z")
Can I have a unicorn that poops ice cream? ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/42 "2012-06-29T19:00:03Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > So if you could get healthcare for free, you’re life would be perfect. > > Anything else you want handed to you? see post# 32 ---
**Author:** ![jacobsta811](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jacobsta811/32/2893_2.png) [@jacobsta811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacobsta811)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/43 "2012-06-29T19:59:18Z")
Re: Rhythmdvl, one of the most important changes isn’t necessarily the cost (which I suspect will probably be higher), but the ability to change plans/shop around - right now, you have to go through a rigorous medical review, only to get denied for a large number of reasons when trying to switch plans - under the exchanges, you should be able to switch without nearly as much hassle and no possibility of being denied. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/44 "2012-06-29T20:04:08Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > Here’s something I’ve never understood. I know people who have ended up in the ER uninsured. The resulting bills have been huge and the collection calls unrelenting. How does that reality work with the idea that we all pay for the uninsured to go to the ER? I also know that the billed cost for the uninsured is much higher than the costs would be for an insured person, so I assume the actual loss to the hospital is much less than the balance due on the statements sent to these people. > > I’m guessing most people in this situation just throw their credit rating down the tubes and don’t pay, and then some tax funded government agency covers the lost income to the hospital, is that it? And if that is actually the way it works in reality, will this new health care law mean that those people never get a bill in the first place? Will the same government agency just cover the cost from the start but just in a different way? Yes, but… There are what we’ll call the happy-go-lucky types. They make a decent income, blow it all on pizza, beer, whatever, and don’t buy medical coverage because they are young and healthy. Suddenly one day they walk in front of a beer truck, end up in the hospital in intensive care (or have a heart attack from the pizza diet). They are now sick, out of work, and broke. They decalre bankruptcy and the hospital is stuckw ith the bill. Who pays that bill? You and everyone else with health care pays for $50 tongue depressors and $10 aspirins to help make up the difference. Or, pre-Obamacare, they woke up one morning with a condition that was now pre-existing, and now that they need health care they can’t get it; so they go to the emergency room and welch on the debt, and again you pay for it. Where does all the cost reduction come from? Those happy-go-lucky types now have to pay for their care, so the system gets $12,000 a year not just from the prudent, but everyone. The 100 hap-go-lu’s who did not need a doctor subsidize the one who suddenly does. Basically, it’s a tax on being healthy ( instead of a tax on just those who already have health care) because there’s no predicting when or how much you may need. It’s like forcing everyone who drives to buy insurance. Mind you, it will still cost a lot more for several reasons - the main one being, there are more people who don’t go to doctors, don’t have coverage _because they can’t afford it_, rather than because they choose to buy pizza and beer instead. These people suddenly now can afford to visit the doctor even when they aren’t limping in on a broken leg while having a heart attack. I think most people seriously underestimate the number who honestly need medical coverage but simply cannot afford it… If your view is “let them die” then the debate is over; if you have a charitable bone somewhere in your body, the question is - what do you do about those people? Ultimately, they get medical help and the service is paid for by the taxpayer. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/45 "2012-06-29T20:33:55Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > Here’s something I’ve never understood. I know people who have ended up in the ER uninsured. The resulting bills have been huge and the collection calls unrelenting… Did they ever end up paying those bills? If so then they were subsidizing those who never did. If not, then they are part of the problem. They can’t get blood from a turnip, if they harass people with no money to pay enough, then the people just declare bankruptcy. Inability to pay medical bills is a major cause of bankruptcy. Your post brings up another problem. Insurance companies pay only a fraction of those huge bills, as they negotiate as an 800 lb. gorilla. Joe Uninsured has no such ability to negotiate, so gets soaked for the hospitals opening bid. Way better for everyone if everyone has insurance, and all insurers pay the same rate. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/46 "2012-06-29T20:46:52Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/47 "2012-06-29T21:21:41Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > see post# 32 So a question about your personal life choices is a political argument? If you feel that way, you probably shouldn’t post on message boards. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/48 "2012-06-29T21:52:28Z")
You should definitely stay out of GQ, where you should expect catcalls and … and … wait, something is amiss. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/49 "2012-06-30T01:57:16Z")
Omar I don’t disagree with your political position. That position is the main reason I disagree with this particular health care plan. I just don’t want politically based needling and jabs in my thread…I want my ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/50 "2012-06-30T07:54:50Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I don’t disagree with your political position. That position is the main reason I disagree with this particular health care plan. > > I just don’t want politically based needling and jabs in my thread…I want my ignorance fought. So, you had no intention at all of quiting your job just to get free healthcare? :rolleyes: This was just a Great Debate concealed as a bogus question?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/51 "2012-06-30T11:57:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, you had no intention at all of quiting your job just to get free healthcare? :rolleyes: This was just a Great Debate concealed as a bogus question?:dubious: NOOO, No NOO NO!! Dammit! I just want information;. I have no intention of starting a great debate here. I just want to know about this aspect of the health care plan. If I wanted to start a debate or pit thread, I would have taken my question elsewhere. Dammit, I’m pissed now. What started as an honest question with an absolute intent on NO POLITICAL JABS allowed, is starting to denigrate into a direction I don’t want it to go. I’m going to ask a mod to close this. If you want to start a great debate about it or PIT me for whatever reason, go do it on your own thread in the appropriate forum. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/52 "2012-06-30T12:26:20Z")
The best defense against off topic or undesired commentary is to simply ignore it. It is only when you keep responding to it (or others do) that the weeds grow to overwhelm the fruit. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/53 "2012-06-30T13:01:22Z")
Yes, to get back to your OP - if the purpose of the law is to provide health coverage to those who cannot afford it, then yes, if all you have is turnips, rutabagas and free-range chickens, then you have no income. If you need surgery, the government will pay for it. That’s what we do for low income seniors and children on welfare now anyway. After all, without Obamacare, if you needed surgery, you would get it and still not be able to pay. Just that the hospital organization and all their other customers would be charged more (they are) to cover that cost. Now it’s going to be spread among 350 million people instead. Whether you can live without money is another issue. Obviously, you need enough money to pay your property taxes. Then you need money for repairs, for seeds, maybe fertilizer, to heat the house and chickencoop in winter unless you have sustainable forest to feed the woodstove; unless your state has a homestead exemption, the bailiffs would seize that land if you had a an operation before Obamacare. Where’s the value in that? Whether you should be allowed to drop out of society financially but expect its support when, oops, self-reliance just doesn’t work… that’s separate great debate. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/54 "2012-06-30T14:41:34Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > snip > > Whether you should be allowed to drop out of society financially but expect its support when, oops, self-reliance just doesn’t work… that’s separate great debate. Reading this I’m wondering if the best outcome here (low cost healthcare for everyone not connected to employment) would encourage more people to take the risk and start their own business? Self reliance can take a while, and it’s more likely to happen with the right support. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/55 "2012-06-30T15:33:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, you had no intention at all of quiting your job just to get free healthcare? :rolleyes: This was just a Great Debate concealed as a bogus question?:dubious: That wasn’t obvious? See his other threads: Can I drive my Cadillac to the Welfare Office? Now that the SC says I can abort my fetus, can I do it after the fact if he’s ugly? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/56 "2012-06-30T15:44:08Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > Reading this I’m wondering if the best outcome here (low cost healthcare for everyone not connected to employment) would encourage more people to take the risk and start their own business? Self reliance can take a while, and it’s more likely to happen with the right support. “Low cost healthcare for everyone not connected to employment” being the operative parenthetical. Upthread it was suggested that my costs are likely to rise a bit. It’s also arguable that they could drop, but save a massive re-examination of health care policy it strikes me as extremely unlikely that I will ever pay close to what someone with employer-backed insurance is paying today. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/57 "2012-06-30T16:07:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, you had no intention at all of quiting your job just to get free healthcare? :rolleyes: This was just a Great Debate concealed as a bogus question?:dubious: Eh, its a decent GQ question. What would someone pay under ACA for healthcare if they left they were in a self-owned small business with little income? is factually answerable, even if the OP isn’t actually in that situation. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the mods have every had a problem with (factually answerable) hypotheticals in GQ before. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/58 "2012-06-30T16:13:53Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Eh, its a decent GQ question. What would someone pay under ACA for healthcare if they left they were in a self-owned small business with little income? is factually answerable, even if the OP isn’t actually in that situation. > > I don’t think I’ve ever seen the mods have every had a problem with (factually answerable) hypotheticals in GQ before. But was not.phrased as a hypothetical, so its pretty much trolling ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/59 "2012-06-30T16:18:53Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > But was not.phrased as a hypothetical, so its pretty much trolling It was a factual question (and a fairly simple and straight forward one), so I don’t see how it can be trolling. The answer to the OP was “yes”. And it wasn’t explicitly phrased as a hypothetical, but it wasn’t phrased as something he was actually going to do, either. The OP asked “can I do X?” Whether the OP is really going to do X, or might do X, or has a friend that is going to do X or wouldn’t do X in a million years isn’t really relevant to the question. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595/60 "2012-06-30T16:34:01Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > It was a factual question (and a fairly simple and straight forward one), so I don’t see how it can be trolling. The answer to the OP was “yes”. > > And it wasn’t explicitly phrased as a hypothetical, but it wasn’t phrased as something he was actually going to do, either. The OP asked “can I do X?” Whether the OP is really going to do X, or might do X, or has a friend that is going to do X or wouldn’t do X in a million years isn’t really relevant to the question. I disagree. The OP had details such as not being into his job and taking up farming that made it sound personal. If he were being honest he would have framed it differently. It was just a gotcha from the start. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-law-question-no-political-jabs-allowed/626595.md?page=4)