# Health care tirade **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 18, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171 "2017-10-18T00:16:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/21 "2017-10-18T16:37:11Z")
When I qualified for MassHealth I did not need to change any of my doctors or hospitals, my out of pocket expenses were near 0, I had access to reduced cost dental care and I wasn’t paying hundreds of dollars a month for it. The health services I used while on Medicaid where among the best in the world, the low end of Boston hospitals outpace some of the best hospitals found in other parts of the country, I wasn’t getting some shitty second hand service because I had Medicaid. Overall, my Medicaid coverage was better than what I have now. There is no option that would grant me similar coverage. Financially I’m in a much better place now and I’d never want to make so little I qualified for MassHealth again. I just disagree with the notion that it’s worse because it’s free to low income people. I’m certainly not bitter towards people receiving benefits, I’m happy to see my tax dollars are going to a program that actually benefits people who need it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/22 "2017-10-18T16:59:30Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The thing that bothers the OP, and myself as well, is that these people are not just ungrateful, as I don’t really care about gratitude either, but actually trying to harm others in the same or worse position than themselves, even at a cost to themselves. That’s not how I read it. If the rant was “People are morons when they vote against something that will help people, especially if it hurts the voter as well” then I would agree. The OP seems more of “I do everything right and have less of something than THOSE people who’ve done everything wrong! Boo Hoo!” Sort of like the argument “I work 80 hours a week and I have to buy cheap hamburger on sale and THOSE people are buying steaks with my tax dollars! Boo Hoo!” The OP is pissed because people who “have less education, less marketable skills, no jobs, they don’t pay taxes” have something better than he does as an educated person with a good job. While conveniently forgetting that they are poor enough to receive the very handouts that he is glad the country provides. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/23 "2017-10-18T17:37:44Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s not how I read it. If the rant was “People are morons when they vote against something that will help people, especially if it hurts the voter as well” then I would agree. > > The OP seems more of “I do everything right and have less of something than THOSE people who’ve done everything wrong! Boo Hoo!” > > Sort of like the argument “I work 80 hours a week and I have to buy cheap hamburger on sale and THOSE people are buying steaks with my tax dollars! Boo Hoo!” > > The OP is pissed because people who “have less education, less marketable skills, no jobs, they don’t pay taxes” have something better than he does as an educated person with a good job. While conveniently forgetting that they are poor enough to receive the very handouts that he is glad the country provides. Op says, "I’ve consistently voted and been an activist for UHC. I’d happily pay more in taxes for medicare for all. “, and " they’ve done everything they can to destroy UHC and they have better health care than me”. Take it how you want, but those words pretty much put it into the former category, not the latter. Though I would phrase it as “People are asshole who would vote for something because it would hurt others, even if it hurts themselves.” The complaint to me, is that they are benefiting from something that they wish to destroy and deny to anyone else, not that they are benefiting from something the OP doesn’t get, though, that’s the insult to injury part that makes it even more frustrating. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/24 "2017-10-18T17:44:37Z")
I think it’s really hard to unpack “better health care” from “less costly health care” in a conversation like this. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/25 "2017-10-18T17:47:33Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I think it’s really hard to unpack “better health care” from “less costly health care” in a conversation like this. As a decent amount (and virtually all of my) health care is paying a doctor to tell you what you already know, paying less for that is better. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/26 "2017-10-18T18:02:07Z")
Almost all of my health care is paying a doctor to write me a prescription after I tell him that I have tonsillitis 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/27 "2017-10-18T21:42:14Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s not how I read it. If the rant was “People are morons when they vote against something that will help people, especially if it hurts the voter as well” then I would agree. > > The OP seems more of “I do everything right and have less of something than THOSE people who’ve done everything wrong! Boo Hoo!” > > Sort of like the argument “I work 80 hours a week and I have to buy cheap hamburger on sale and THOSE people are buying steaks with my tax dollars! Boo Hoo!” > > The OP is pissed because people who “have less education, less marketable skills, no jobs, they don’t pay taxes” have something better than he does as an educated person with a good job. While conveniently forgetting that they are poor enough to receive the very handouts that he is glad the country provides. Its a little of both. I have friends on medicaid and have no problem with people getting it. It bothers me when people who seek to destroy medicaid and health insurance for others get it though. I know old people on medicare who think medicare needs to be eliminated, but not until they are dead and don’t need it anymore. They want to pull the ladder up with them, it sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/28 "2017-10-18T23:00:12Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > But these people have less education, less marketable skills, no jobs, they don’t pay taxes and they’ve done everything they can to destroy UHC and they have better health care than me. Medicaid has no deductibles (AFAIK, or very low copays). No worries about balance billing or going bankrupt for having a heart attack like people like me have to worry about. Whether or not Medicaid has copays or deductibles varies by state, and in my state there are two tiers of Medicaid, one which is bare bones and has co-pays and the other requires monthly premiums (it actually has a different name, but essentially that’s what they are) and no deductibles/co-pays other than a $25 charge for an ER visit. While I was on Medicaid I most certainly DID pay taxes. I didn’t pay _Federal income tax_ because I wasn’t earning enough but I sure as shit paid state income tax, sales, and all other taxes. Can we please kill the myth that the poor don’t pay taxes period? It’s not true. They don’t pay as much in tax, but that’s because they don’t have as much. It’s true most provides don’t take on Medicaid patients. If you’re on Medicaid you’ll spend a LOT of time looking for someone to take your insurance, and you’ll spend a lot of time on the phone trying to get your prescriptions justified. (I have a 50+ history of severe allergies. I could not get an epi-pen to save my life. Literally, that’s what epi-pens are FOR - saving a life. I still don’t have one. At one point it took two months to get approval for an asthma maintenance medication and then they gave me shit for needing an albuterol refill “too soon” - well, get me that inhaled steroid and I won’t NEED the frickin’ albuterol so much!) When my husband was dying I thought it was all set up to get him into a hospice but when they found out we were on Medicaid they dumped us like yesterday’s used lunch. My husband never did get into hospice because of them jerking us around. I got _him_ equivalent care with the help of his oncologist and a hospital willing to work with us but I got absolutely none of the services a hospice provides to a family, no access to professional grief counseling, nothing. So while it may appear folks on Medicaid are getting “free stuff” they really aren’t, there are frequently gaps in service, major headaches and road blocks, and it really isn’t any better than private insurance. For what it’s worth - I’m pro-universal health coverage, pro-ACA, and basically everyone opposite to what you claim the people you talked to were. But then, I’m not multi-generational poor, I just went through a really bad financial spot due to a lay off and the Great Recession, and I eventually climbed out of it (I no longer qualify for Medicaid and I’m on employer insurance again.) But yeah, there are some real idiots out there. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/29 "2017-10-18T23:46:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Chessic Sense View Post > I have yet to find a doctor or provider that doesn’t just give the negotiated rate to the uninsured, at their own expense. > [@Tee](#): > > What hospital does this? It’s the one in Fantasyland. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/30 "2017-10-19T01:23:47Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Whether or not Medicaid has copays or deductibles varies by state, and in my state there are two tiers of Medicaid, one which is bare bones and has co-pays and the other requires monthly premiums (it actually has a different name, but essentially that’s what they are) and no deductibles/co-pays other than a $25 charge for an ER visit. > > While I was on Medicaid I most certainly DID pay taxes. I didn’t pay _Federal income tax_ because I wasn’t earning enough but I sure as shit paid state income tax, sales, and all other taxes. Can we please kill the myth that the poor don’t pay taxes period? It’s not true. They don’t pay as much in tax, but that’s because they don’t have as much. > > It’s true most provides don’t take on Medicaid patients. If you’re on Medicaid you’ll spend a LOT of time looking for someone to take your insurance, and you’ll spend a lot of time on the phone trying to get your prescriptions justified. (I have a 50+ history of severe allergies. I could not get an epi-pen to save my life. Literally, that’s what epi-pens are FOR - saving a life. I still don’t have one. At one point it took two months to get approval for an asthma maintenance medication and then they gave me shit for needing an albuterol refill “too soon” - well, get me that inhaled steroid and I won’t NEED the frickin’ albuterol so much!) > > When my husband was dying I thought it was all set up to get him into a hospice but when they found out we were on Medicaid they dumped us like yesterday’s used lunch. My husband never did get into hospice because of them jerking us around. I got _him_ equivalent care with the help of his oncologist and a hospital willing to work with us but I got absolutely none of the services a hospice provides to a family, no access to professional grief counseling, nothing. > > So while it may appear folks on Medicaid are getting “free stuff” they really aren’t, there are frequently gaps in service, major headaches and road blocks, and it really isn’t any better than private insurance. > > For what it’s worth - I’m pro-universal health coverage, pro-ACA, and basically everyone opposite to what you claim the people you talked to were. But then, I’m not multi-generational poor, I just went through a really bad financial spot due to a lay off and the Great Recession, and I eventually climbed out of it (I no longer qualify for Medicaid and I’m on employer insurance again.) > > But yeah, there are some real idiots out there. I have no problem with people getting medicaid, SCHIP, etc. Like I said, I did minor activist work (to whatever degree I could as an individual by voting, calling politicians, educating myself, etc) to help get the ACA passed, which expanded medicaid to millions of people. It bothers me when people who try to destroy medicaid and the ACA benefit from it, it bothers me double if it feels like their health care is better than mine, considering that I didn’t try to destroy those programs and tried to help get them passed. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/31 "2017-10-19T01:55:59Z")
Yeah, the idiots bother me, too, but in a lot of case you might as well shout at a wall for all the good it will do. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/32 "2017-10-19T12:28:06Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > It bothers me when people who try to destroy medicaid and the ACA benefit from it, it bothers me double if it feels like their health care is better than mine, considering that I didn’t try to destroy those programs and tried to help get them passed. The first part makes sense to me. The second doesn’t, if we are conflating “better” with “costs less.” Would this be a fair way to restate your comments? “It bothers me when people who try to destroy medicaid and the ACA benefit from it, it bothers me double if it feels like their health care costs them less than mine costs me, considering that I didn’t try to destroy those programs and tried to help get them passed.” If that’s not a fair restatement, can you clarify what “better” means in this context? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/33 "2017-10-19T18:04:49Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m not going to argue that you didn’t have the experience that you related, but I just happen to have a bill for a doctor visit in front of me. My insurance plan has negotiated about a 40% discount on this routine visit, compared to the doctor’s billing rate. I have a feeling that most people with insurance would also report substantial discounts, seeing as how this is a basic feature of health insurance. > > So obviously, everyone’s mileage may vary. The billed rate is essentially meaningless. It’s there to make everyone think they got a good deal (other than insurers, who know it’s meaningless). If you were a cash-paying patient, you’d get a similar discount (“adjustment”) at the time of payment. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/34 "2017-10-19T18:49:14Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I saw a thread that mentioned Sarah Silverman’s new TV show on Hulu. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=839050](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=839050) > > The show wasn’t bad, but part of the show was she went to a conservative family in Louisiana and talked to them about politics. After some of the family finish going on a tirade against the ‘takers’ and how Obama empowered the takers, Silverman finds out that several members of the family are on government health care. Medicaid and the ACA. > > I have a bachelors degree in a STEM field. I work for a major company with a healthy profit margin. I’m a competent employee. Despite all that I have a narrow network health plan with a high deductible. In the last few years I’ve never used my insurance because all my health care either wasn’t covered by my narrow network plan, or it came in under the deductible. I’ve spent several thousands of dollars on health care in the last few years, none of it covered, and my insurance is crap. > > Not only that, I voted for politicians who support universal health care. I called politicians to encourage them to support the ACA in 2009 and 2010. I called them to tell them not to destroy the ACA in 2017 also. I’ve consistently voted and been an activist for UHC. I’d happily pay more in taxes for medicare for all. > > But these people have less education, less marketable skills, no jobs, they don’t pay taxes and they’ve done everything they can to destroy UHC and they have better health care than me. Medicaid has no deductibles (AFAIK, or very low copays). No worries about balance billing or going bankrupt for having a heart attack like people like me have to worry about. > > I know this country is [heavily divided](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/05/poll-americans-divided-party-lines-243466)by politics, I’ve heard that people are more divided by politics than by race nowadays. But the way these people feel about blacks in the ghetto is how I feel about these people. They do everything wrong and they get rewarded. I try to do things right and I get punished. If I were an unemployed, uneducated Trump voter who tried to prevent and eliminate UHC, I’d have better health care. > > I don’t know or really believe if the political gap will be bridged. But this bothered me more than I expected it would. Why are you bothered by people using a system you ideologically support? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/35 "2017-10-19T19:00:59Z")
Some people are just propagandised to an inch of their senses. Like for decades. It reads to me - from afar - that some of the linkage of healthcare to the American flag/way of life/socialism has eased in the past decade. But I guess for many it’s still conditioning over the rational. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/36 "2017-10-19T19:03:55Z")
I am starting to seriously think that there are some on this planet who, given a choice, would rather pay MORE for their healthcare, if this ensures that someone they don’t like cannot get healthcare, and dies a horrible death. They are willing to pay an extra fee, so that the guy down the street who got laid off from his job will not get proper healthcare. Because he’s “lazy” or “not like me” or “not a real American” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/37 "2017-10-19T19:10:56Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I am starting to seriously think that there are some on this planet who, given a choice, would rather pay MORE for their healthcare, if this ensures that someone they don’t like cannot get healthcare, and dies a horrible death. > > They are willing to pay an extra fee, so that the guy down the street who got laid off from his job will not get proper healthcare. Because he’s “lazy” or “not like me” or “not a real American” You are JUST NOW starting to think that? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/38 "2017-10-19T19:20:38Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I am starting to seriously think that there are some on this planet who, given a choice, would rather pay MORE for their healthcare, if this ensures that someone they don’t like cannot get healthcare, and dies a horrible death. > > They are willing to pay an extra fee, so that the guy down the street who got laid off from his job will not get proper healthcare. Because he’s “lazy” or “not like me” or “not a real American” I got that impression quite some time ago. I even asked in one of the healthcare threads whether they would be willing to pay more and get less coverage, if it meant that they wouldn’t be paying for the coverage of others, and the consensus seemed to be that yes, the principle was more important. They were willing to sacrifice themselves for this principle. Of course, sacrificing others for their principle was even better. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/39 "2017-10-19T19:35:41Z")
Apologies for the vagueness, but I remember someone posting in some thread about some study where people were given a choice of getting $2 and their neighbor got $3, or they got $1 and their neighbor got nothing. Or something like that. And a majority picked getting $1 instead of $2. Does that ring a bell with anyone? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171/40 "2017-10-19T19:53:47Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Apologies for the vagueness, but I remember someone posting in some thread about some study where people were given a choice of getting $2 and their neighbor got $3, or they got $1 and their neighbor got nothing. Or something like that. And a majority picked getting $1 instead of $2. Does that ring a bell with anyone? I don’t know about a study exactly, but I’ve talked to my dad ( very conservative) about such things, and think I shared that experience here, that may be what you’re thinking of. Or, there could be a study out here as well. I asked him if he would take $20, under the condition that someone else would get $20. His first question was, who gets the $20? I responded that it wouldn’t go to any sort of terrorist or criminal, or anything like that. That wasn’t good enough, he wanted to know who would get it, because he wanted to know if that person deserved it. Without knowing who would get it, even being assured that it wouldn’t be used for anything nefarious (a reasonable precaution), he would refuse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-care-tirade/799171.md?page=3)