And remember, different demographic groups are going to have different statistics. If you want to ask me if I, personally, want to go on a government system, compare the statistics for people like me vs the rest of the world. If you want to ask me if I think person A would benefit from a government system, then compare the statistics for people like person A with the rest of the world.
So, if you want to change things thru the political process, and you wonder why things don’t change, maybe you’re looking at the wrong demographic. Politically speaking, it doesn’t really matter what the life expectancy, etc is of the 40 - 45% of the populace that doesn’t regularly vote in federal elections.
The system is supposed to work in favor of the patient, moving patients that need specialized care to places were they can receive this care. It works well if you are insured. Many times the underinsured or no insurance patients are sent to welfare facilities, or teaching colleges even if they need immediate care. Every hospital will deny this, but I have seen it happen.
I remember one case where a homeless person fell on the ice and broke both her arms. Her treatment was to cast one arm and put the other in a sling so they could discharge her immediately. It would be against the law to discharge her with both arms in a cast. Luckly, a female doctor discovered what was happening and threatened to report them. The homeless woman was given a second cast for her other arm as should have happened to begin with.
None of these things need happen with national health care. Even my doctor is for it. We have a congress with an approval rating of 14% attacking a president with an approval rating twice theirs. The pot calling the kettle black thing. When will the voters wake up and get rid of congress as well. I have heard talk about and agree with not voting for any incumbent. We could not do any worse, and we might do better.
As to the OP, I’m very sorry for your loss, and am myself dealing with the negative aspects of the healthcare system here. People always tell us about the wait times we’ll have if we move to UHC, etc., but we already have them. They tell us about the Canadians who come to America to go to doctors as evidence that there is a problem with UHC. In reality, that’s no different than the people here who go out of network to see a doctor because they can afford to, and don’t want to wait to see the first one available in network. It doesn’t just suck for those without insurance, it sucks for many with some of the best insurance available here.
I still stand by an earlier prediction I made that we’re less than a generation away (and maybe much less) from having some sort of universal coverage in this country. I’m just sorry that it will be too late for many, and find it disheartening that there are people willing to make excuse after excuse in an attempt to delay it.
lol…sure (Mother Jones? ). I agree that the majority of people WANT free health care…hell, I want free health care too. I want free energy and a pony too. Try getting the majority of tax payers to PAY for UHC however…thats kind of the rub.
If the majority of people wanted it then we would have it…lobby or no lobby. The only serious attempt that I know of was by Clinton…and it failed rather miserably. I’ll believe it when I see a major candidate run on a UHC platform, win AND seriously attempt to impliment it. Until then you can show me all the polls you like (even from Mother Jones)…
Regardless, it wouldn’t have helped the OP’s family unfortunately.
I don’t know what your country is, but assuming that it is either the US or Canada, I can not begin to tell you how wrong you are on your assessment of Cuba’s health care. In the first place, it is not slightly below the US or Canada, it is miles below in quality and availability. In the second place it is not free, it is subsidized by the starvation wages the government pays.
From what I have seen of US health care, I will take it over Cuba any day. And I am very familiar with Canada’s health care system, and I will take that over Cuba any day too.
If you want to criticize the US health care system feel free, but please do not bring Cuba into the comparison, it will not help your argument.
Your article compares the United States to Denmark, Finland, Canada, Germany, the United Kingdom, Norway, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Sweden, and Japan. Not Cuba.
Out of the three countries he’s lived in, he said he prefered the United States to Cuba, and he prefered Canada to Cuba, neither of which should come as much suprise. Lalenin didn’t say which he preferred between the United States and Canada. All he disagreed with was your assertion that health care in the United States can be compared unfavorably (“only slightly better”) to health care in Cuba.
And of course, a dirty secret that no one wants to talk about in those national comparisons is race. When you compare white Americans to Europeans outcomes are much more even. When you just look at black Americans, and America starts to look more like a third world country. Of course, if you compared white Canadians to first nations Canadians, you’ll see much the same thing. And one of the sources of resistance to national health care is the multiethnic status of the United States. People are much more willing to pay for the health care of people like themselves, much less willing to pay for the health care of people unlike themselves. Swedes are comfortable paying for the health care of other Swedes, but they might not be so eager to pay for Norwegians or Danes.
I did better, I did some living. In Cuba that is, and in Canada, and now in the US, so I can tell you that my personal experience is that the Cuban health system stinks, especially when compared to the US or Canada.
Ah yes, the famous “I’m willing to pay $500 more in taxes for universal healthcare” poll. Gee, I’d love to pay just $500 for my healthcare insurance. Unfortunately, that’s off by about a factor of 10.
But **XT **is wrong, too. It’s not taxpayers that matters, it’s voters. If you don’t vote, your voice doesn’t get heard.
I did, in my second post in this thread.
But the other dirty little secret is what percentage of Whites vs Minorities vote. Now, that may be more of a socio-economic issue, but it results in proportionately more White votes.
True, though I haven’t seen much to indicate that the 40+% who don’t vote feel radically different about it. I’ll concede that its the voters who decide things at any rate.
No one is claiming that you can get decent healthcare for $500. The question asked if you’d be willing to pay $500 more in taxes. I pay about $6,000 a year for healthcare right now. I’ll happily pay an extra $500 on top of that to have UHC, although it’s not likely necessary, as my insurance cost is higher than the taxes of those who currently have UHC.
The questions asked were whether one was willing to pay higher taxes in order to guarantee health care to all Americans, in which 60% were in favor.
Over 80% of those people said they’d be willing to pay $500 a year more in taxes to accomplish that.
76% of the persons polled think UHC is more important than maintaining the recent tax cuts.
65% think it’s more important to have UHC than to keep healthcare costs down (again, not that I think that’s a choice that we’ll necessary have to make).
64% think the government should guarantee health insurance for all Americans.
80% of the above think it should be guaranteed even if their own insurance cost would increase.
Americans as a whole want universal health insurance, and it’s going to start showing in election results in the near future. Since even the GOP has 51% of its members behind UHC, and since pretty soon all states that want to shit on gays will have their various amendments in place (thus removing that bigotted distraction), it’s just a matter of time before UHC becomes the defining issue.
If you wish to claim that America doesn’t want UHC (even just voters), I’ll happily look at any evidence you provide to counter what I posted.
looks around Huh…we don’t HAVE UHC. Yet, based on your figures we SHOULD, no? Why is that? IIRC Bill Clinton, one of the most popular and charismatic presidents of all time attempted to get it pushed through…and it failed miserably. Why? If 80% (or 76%) of voters (nods to John Mace) WANT UHC, why don’t we HAVE UHC? Whats your theory on that DMC?
I’m not seeing those figures in any of your links, but maybe I just missed them. Can you indicate the specific link and quote the specific section? In the NYT article, it’s unclear exactly what questions were asked. In the Harris Poll article, I don’t see those questions.
I have plenty of theories, but so far, I have tossed out a bunch of polls from various sources, including from the GOP side of things, and they all say the same thing. You have brought absolutely nothing to counter that except to make faces at one of the cites, which had you read it, you would have realized was entirely legit.
Your claim was “I would say its self evident that the majority of tax payers don’t want such a system…or we’d have it already.” It’s not even close to self-evident, as that reasoning is flawed. Even with the “voters, not tax payers” modifier, I think I’ve shown the above to be bollocks, but I’ll happily entertain any evidence that backs up your statement.
Yet your polls don’t REFLECT REALITY. So, either your polls are wrong, or they don’t say what you THINK they say. I need bring nothing else too the discussion at this point except to point out that despite your cites WE DON’T HAVE UHC IN THE US…and its not even been seriously pushed for. Why? If its ‘bollocks’ that the voters don’t want UHC if they have to pay for it then where the fuck is it? Why don’t we have it? Why isn’t every politician wishing to be elected stumping for it?
Again, if you have any evidence that I’m incorrect, I’ll happily look over it carefully. In the meantime, I see no reason to toss out guesses as to why it’s not in place yet (and I have plenty), when you won’t even acknowledge the validity of the actual evidence that I have provided.
Quite possibly because there is not a direct correlation between the opinion of citizens/voters and legislation?
There’s this little thing called Congress that gets in the way. Congress is heavily influenced by large-money contributors, such as the insurance companies who will cease making humungous profits if UHC gets passed.
Congressmembers can refuse to create and/or vote against legislation for UHC, regardless of what their constituents want. Congressmembers can create such poor legislation that it won’t pass because even UHC supporters won’t go for it, or that will completely fail to work if it does pass, in order to pretend to listen to their constituency while actually pandering to the insurance companies. The Medicare pharmacy plan fiasco comes to mind.
Aside from that, I’ve definitely seen a change in public opinion on the topic since BC tried to muster support for UHC.
Back then (what was that, almost 15 years ago?), many more people screamed “OMG not socialized medicine111!!!” whenever the topic was mentioned. Many of those people have become more educated on the subject since then, and changed their minds.
Other folks have become disgusted with our current system, or realized how poorly it works for many people, in the intervening years. Partly due to the publicity about situations like the one in the OP.
You want me to cite the fact that the US doesn’t have UHC?? Um…no. I refuse to cite something that stupid. If you don’t know by now, well…
See above answer. Reality doesn’t conform to those polls…the US does not have UHC.
And yet, ‘A’ is ‘A’…reality IS.
How about this. Lets talk politicians. Which major politicians are running on a platform of UHC? Just presidential candidates, either party (though I seriously doubt any major 'Pub candidate is running on such a platform). Afaict, though several candidates support health care reform, none of the major candidates (with the exception of Kucinich and possibly Obama, though I can’t really figure his actual stance out) none of they are pushing for UHC. Does that not suggest something to you? Considering your assertion that 80% of voters (or even 80% of tax payers) supposedly WANT it (that would cross party lines btw and encompass a HUGE amount of the center)?
). I agree that the majority of people WANT free health care…hell, I want free health care too. I want free energy and a pony too. Try getting the majority of tax payers to PAY for UHC however…thats kind of the rub.