# Health Insurance Companies are unspeakably evil, and the author of this ehow article is stupid. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 27, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814 "2014-01-27T02:25:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/21 "2014-01-27T20:04:25Z")
You can get as much health coverage as you can afford. And under the current law, even if you can’t afford it, you can get a subsidy to help you pay for some minimum amount of coverage. But will that amount of coverage satisfy the OP? Somehow, I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/22 "2014-01-27T21:06:49Z")
> [@bump](#): > > So what else are they supposed to do? They’re not philanthropic organizations, and until recently there were no requirements for coverage from either side. > > They probably figured that this guy with the pre-existing condition would just be a giant money hole- as in, they’d pay out in medical claims some multiple of the amount they’d collect in premiums, that is unless they raise the premiums. > > Both are somehow considered “evil”, but what are they supposed to do? Accept this guy and just pay out an unlimited amount of money because he’s sick? That’s absurd. > > If you’re going to be upset, be upset at the system as a whole, not the insurance companies in particular- they’re acting rationally within the system. Umm, that’s kinda why I said there’s no need to paint them as mustache-twisting villains. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/23 "2014-01-27T21:12:13Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Can’t wait until property and casualty insurance companies are forced to accept pre-existing conditions. I’m going to buy several run down properties and have the insurance company pay to fix them up. I’m also going to head to the junk yard and buy several classic wrecked cars and get them restored on the insurance company’s nickel. > > Wait…what…you say that’s not gonna happen. But that’s how it’s supposed to work…at least that how several folks on the SDMB say that’s how insurance is meant to work. > > I contract cancer, I go get insurance, then they pay for all of my treatments. Your problem is that you see owning a house or a car as a necessity where they actually luxuries. Nobody’s entitled to that, but would you disagree if I said people are entitled to life? In this country, do you actually think its a good idea for the poor to die off because they cannot afford expensive treatment? What will need to happen is that either the government covers everyone at a loss or treatment gets cheaper. To simply let people die because they can’t pay enough for pills is inhuman. And yes, I do think that we have the wealth to cover everyone, plenty of other first world countries do it and in return they get a healthier population that doesn’t need as much health coverage. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/24 "2014-01-27T21:28:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Umm, that’s kinda why I said there’s no need to paint them as mustache-twisting villains. I was taking contention with the first part of your statement that “Maximizing shareholder profit at the expense of suffering humans is plenty evil enough.” It’s a historical quirk if you ask me; back in the day, medical care, such that it was, was much cheaper, and people got insurance to defray the cost of catastrophic illness or injury. Over time the costs have gone up, and insurance has become a de-facto necessity, and this puts the companies in the unenviable position of either trying to make a profit, or to cover everyone at their own expense. They really are damned if they do, damned if they don’t in a lot of ways. They certainly can’t please everyone. And, another thing to consider (to paraphrase Stalin, of all people), is that their subscriber lists are HUGE. They have to think in large terms by necessity; worrying about one guy out of millions doesn’t pay. ---
**Author:** ![stegon66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@stegon66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stegon66)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/25 "2014-01-27T21:49:58Z")
> [@](#): > > maybe that’s why we need health coverage and not health insurance. The insurance model isn’t working well anymore, if it ever did, yet people still need health care. Well, either that or we just let them die but i believe our society can afford to take care of people seeing how everyone else in the first world manages to do it. But that’s Obama Socialism and it’s DESTROYING America!!! Seriously!!! Just ask Ted Cruz!!! ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vegetable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Space\_Vegetable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vegetable)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/26 "2014-01-28T10:50:58Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’m curious to see what would happen if you separated a set of twins at birth. Operated on the brain of one twin to induce a permanent vegetative state, and educated the other twin on nothing but eHow articles. At age twenty, perform a double-blind study to see if there are any differences. I understand they did a similar experiment, and found that the twin educated on nothing but eHow articles was able to do no better than average at determining which of a set of eHow articles had actually been written by the twin in a permanent vegetative state. (It wasn’t a double-blind study though. One of the twins could still make out shapes.) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/27 "2014-01-29T07:31:45Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Can’t wait until property and casualty insurance companies are forced to accept pre-existing conditions. I’m going to buy several run down properties and have the insurance company pay to fix them up. I’m also going to head to the junk yard and buy several classic wrecked cars and get them restored on the insurance company’s nickel. > > Wait…what…you say that’s not gonna happen. But that’s how it’s supposed to work…at least that how several folks on the SDMB say that’s how insurance is meant to work. > > I contract cancer, I go get insurance, then they pay for all of my treatments. I take it you’ve never had to deal with getting insurance with a pre-existing condition, then? ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/28 "2014-01-29T07:52:28Z")
Insuring against pre-existing conditions makes absolutely no sense. America’s system has completely corrupted the idea of insurance. Insurance is not a health care plan. It is not a subsidy. It is an arrangement that exchanges regular payments for a payout in the event that a stated event occurs, so as to mitigate the risk of the damage to the subject in the event that such stated event occurs and the insured subject is unable to afford treatment. A pre-existing condition has ALREADY occurred. If America is uncomfortable that a person cannot afford treatment, cannot afford to LIVE, then you need to have some sort of state medical system to provide such treatment. If people cannot afford food, you do not mandate that restaurants cannot turn away patrons based on their ability to pay for what they consume. You GIVE THEM FOOD. The willingness of even the liberals in this thread harping on how insurance is the solution and how “you’ve never tried to get insurance for a pre-existing condition” is boggling my mind. We’re supposed to be reality-based, yes? Reality says insurance for pre-existing conditions is bollocks. Over here, I can’t get insurance for pre-existing conditions either. But that’s ok, because if I can get subsidised healthcare for such conditions. If you want to call that “government insurance” to make it more palatable, sure. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/29 "2014-01-29T08:28:29Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > Insuring against pre-existing conditions makes absolutely no sense. America’s system has completely corrupted the idea of insurance. Because Americans don’t really want their insurance to act like insurance (at least so far as it makes it inconvenient or costly for them personally), but they also definitely don’t want anybody messing with their insurance. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/30 "2014-01-29T14:36:13Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > Insuring against pre-existing conditions makes absolutely no sense. America’s system has completely corrupted the idea of insurance. Insurance is not a health care plan. It is not a subsidy. It is an arrangement that exchanges regular payments for a payout in the event that a stated event occurs, so as to mitigate the risk of the damage to the subject in the event that such stated event occurs and the insured subject is unable to afford treatment. > > A pre-existing condition has ALREADY occurred. > > If America is uncomfortable that a person cannot afford treatment, cannot afford to LIVE, then you need to have some sort of state medical system to provide such treatment. > > If people cannot afford food, you do not mandate that restaurants cannot turn away patrons based on their ability to pay for what they consume. You GIVE THEM FOOD. > The willingness of even the liberals in this thread harping on how insurance is the solution and how “you’ve never tried to get insurance for a pre-existing condition” is boggling my mind. We’re supposed to be reality-based, yes? Reality says insurance for pre-existing conditions is bollocks. > > Over here, I can’t get insurance for pre-existing conditions either. But that’s ok, because if I can get subsidised healthcare for such conditions. If you want to call that “government insurance” to make it more palatable, sure. That would require Republicans to actually give a fuck about something other than fertilized eggs and the one-percenters. They don’t. Insurance company profits are deemed far more important than cancer patients in fucked up America. Malcolm Gladwell explains [some of the reasoning behind our evil health care system.](http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/08/29/050829fa_fact?currentPage=all) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/31 "2014-01-29T16:29:19Z")
I would love it if we get rid of our health insurance system and actually give people health care. Anyone should be able to freely go to any doctor they need and have the government pay for the service. Of course there will need to be a lot of regulations in place to prevent abuse but I don’t want life and death to be decided by money. To a certain extent, it always will, but the government should do all it can to mitigate the differences ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/32 "2014-01-29T18:12:29Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Your problem is that you see owning a house or a car as a necessity where they actually luxuries. Nobody’s entitled to that, but would you disagree if I said people are entitled to life? Your problem is you see Insurance companies as the reason people can’t afford treatment. Keep in mind, Insurance is just a checkbook–it’s the doctors and drug companies that set the cost of treatment. And frankly, it is they who have abused their life-saving position to the extent they fully deserve having the feds land on them and cap their incomes. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/33 "2014-01-29T18:21:49Z")
Maybe, but lets first cap the incomes of corporations and lawyers first ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/34 "2014-01-29T18:33:44Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Maybe, but lets first cap the incomes of corporations and lawyers first Why? We know the medical community is the root of the problem–why take aim at someone else? Set reasonable & predictable prices for health-essential goods & services and the ill-defined Corporations & Lawyers will lose their market. Forcing insurance companies to pay for stuff provides absolutely no incentive for the predators to make their services more affordable. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/35 "2014-01-29T19:12:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Your problem is you see Insurance companies as the reason people can’t afford treatment. Keep in mind, Insurance is just a checkbook–it’s the doctors and drug companies that set the cost of treatment. You are kidding, right? Doctors don’t set prices-insurance companies do and if you want access to their patients you accept what they pay. In the case of hospitals, this mean that the uninsured are billed many times what the insurance pays for insured patients but doctor can’t do that because uninsured patients won’t see them and if they do they don’t pay. In other words, if I wanted to get $100 for an appointment, I could charge it but if the insurance company pays $50 I get $50. I could charge $150 to uninsured patients but they wouldn’t come to see me. The hospital OTOH, can charge $1000 for an ER visit and if the insurance company pays $200, they make it up on the uninsured patients who come to the ER because they have nowhere else to go. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/36 "2014-01-29T19:31:25Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > Why? We know the medical community is the root of the problem–why take aim at someone else? Set reasonable & predictable prices for health-essential goods & services and the ill-defined Corporations & Lawyers will lose their market. Forcing insurance companies to pay for stuff provides absolutely no incentive for the predators to make their services more affordable. The root of THIS problem, sure, but there’s more than one problem we have in the nation. But I do agree that some medical services needs to be price regulated, starting with drugs ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/37 "2014-01-29T19:45:05Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > You are kidding, right? Doctors don’t set prices-insurance companies do and if you want access to their patients you accept what they pay. In the case of hospitals, this mean that the uninsured are billed many times what the insurance pays for insured patients but doctor can’t do that because uninsured patients won’t see them and if they do they don’t pay. In other words, if I wanted to get $100 for an appointment, I could charge it but if the insurance company pays $50 I get $50. I could charge $150 to uninsured patients but they wouldn’t come to see me. The hospital OTOH, can charge $1000 for an ER visit and if the insurance company pays $200, they make it up on the uninsured patients who come to the ER because they have nowhere else to go. I wonder what would happen if the medical community as a whole decided the deals they entered into, for the reasons you describe, are detremental to their patients and decided what they really need to do is charge reasonable fees regardless of who is paying. Seems to be a workable practice for every other industry. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/38 "2014-01-30T01:04:50Z")
The problem is that the insurance companies have a monopoly on health care. You don’t sign their contracts, you don’t get patients. Sure, there are a lot of doctors going to boutique practices but there is a limited amount of patients who are willing to actually pay for their own healthcare. People are so used to paying only a copay that they balk at paying a reasonable price. There are actually a very small number of self-pay patients who are affected by what a physician charges. Most who can’t afford insurance, can’t afford to see a physician at all, even at the same prices that insurance pays. For example, if I hire a plumber, he gets what he charges (at least $100 an hour). If I hire a lawyer, he might get $400 an hour including any time he works on my case including telephone time. However, if I charge $200 for a half hour visit, followed by an additional half hour spent reviewing lab tests, calling the patient with results, and calling the pharmacy with a new medication order, the patient will go to a participating doctor where he can get the same service for only $20 (even though the insurance company may pay the doctor another $40.) Sure I could charge only $60. The problem is that another insurance company may pay $65 (with patient copay) for the same service. If I only charge $60 then every insurance company will pay me no more than $60 so I have to charge at least what the best-paying insurance charges. In addition, the laws of supply and demand do not almost work with medical care. People who are sick do not have the time and energy to comparison shop. What we really need is to provide governmental universal health care and then allow a second tier of private health care for those that with to pay for it outside of the system. At the same time, though, we need to make sure that the government system pays doctors a living wage so that there are some who are willing to participate in the government system. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/39 "2014-01-30T03:14:31Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > Insuring against pre-existing conditions makes absolutely no sense. America’s system has completely corrupted the idea of insurance. Insurance is not a health care plan. It is not a subsidy. It is an arrangement that exchanges regular payments for a payout in the event that a stated event occurs, so as to mitigate the risk of the damage to the subject in the event that such stated event occurs and the insured subject is unable to afford treatment. > > A pre-existing condition has ALREADY occurred. > > If America is uncomfortable that a person cannot afford treatment, cannot afford to LIVE, then you need to have some sort of state medical system to provide such treatment. > > If people cannot afford food, you do not mandate that restaurants cannot turn away patrons based on their ability to pay for what they consume. You GIVE THEM FOOD. > The willingness of even the liberals in this thread harping on how insurance is the solution and how “you’ve never tried to get insurance for a pre-existing condition” is boggling my mind. We’re supposed to be reality-based, yes? Reality says insurance for pre-existing conditions is bollocks. > > Over here, I can’t get insurance for pre-existing conditions either. But that’s ok, because if I can get subsidised healthcare for such conditions. If you want to call that “government insurance” to make it more palatable, sure. Unfortunately, we don’t have that option over here, because omgcommunism. (I’ve also encountered doctors who won’t take people who don’t have insurance. Even those who are paying out of pocket. Fuck.) ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814/40 "2014-02-03T19:38:22Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > What we really need is to provide governmental universal health care and then allow … I knew we’d eventually agree on a solution, if not the problem. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-companies-are-unspeakably-evil-and-the-author-of-this-ehow-article-is-stupid/679814.md?page=3)