# Health Insurance Is a Scam, Why Do People Buy It? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 31, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414 "2012-03-31T21:25:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/101 "2012-04-18T18:32:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The fact, proven again and again, is that the market makes a big fucking mess out of healthcare. You might as well argue that the UK has the best motor industry because, hey, Rolls-Royce! Free market healthcare advocates are like communists claiming to have the best government. There is no successful example of either. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/102 "2012-04-18T20:51:47Z")
In the year 2010, my wife and I rang up over 1 million dollars in health care costs. That is why I have bought health insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/103 "2012-04-18T21:11:41Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > In the year 2010, my wife and I rang up over 1 million dollars in health care costs. That is why I have bought health insurance. I would love to buy health insurance; but if I bought catastrophic health insurance (at a rate of $700 per month), and incurred the same health problems you did, I would be bankrupted by the deductible and the coinsurance. Catastrophic health insurance does not protect me from catastrophe. But full insurance like the kind that I had up until 2010, with just a minimal co-pay, no deductible and no coinsurance, would cost $1400 per month, which wipes me out. So I choose to have no health insurance. If I run into a health crisis, I will either die, or get treated at the emergency room and declare medical bankruptcy. I also have an old Blue Cross card I will attempt to use to defraud the medical providers until they figure it out, if need be. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/104 "2012-04-18T21:19:55Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Free market healthcare advocates are like communists claiming to have the best government. Heh. And articles in Pravda which used to say how horrible life in the US was were just like the anti-health reform people talking about how horrible healthcare is in England or other parts of Europe. Remember how they said Stephen Hawking would be dead if he lived in a socialist medicine system and how the Dutch wore wristbands saying “don’t kill me?” The Big Lie is not confined to Moscow. ---
**Author:** ![zookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9dc877/32.png) [@zookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zookies)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/105 "2012-04-19T16:00:21Z")
Actually, it is the government that has made a mess of health care, not the market. But some people, despite the failure of the Soviet Union, think central planning works. They were the sort that said nothing in the 1930’s when Hitler centralized power. In fact, the NY Times, the Holy Bible of the left, wrote an editorial in the 1930’s pining for the sort of Brown Shirt nationalism they observed in Italy. Just as Mussolini made the trains run on time, so they think their dictator will fix health care. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/106 "2012-04-19T16:05:41Z")
> [@zookies](#): > > Actually, it is the government that has made a mess of health care, not the market. You are going to have to explain this, and not just regurgitate what you heard on talk radio. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/107 "2012-04-19T16:16:59Z")
If he thinks the alternative being proposed by _anyone_ is “central planning”, you’re wasting your time. Even the UK NHS, the most centralized of the socialized health systems, doesn’t have “central planning” other than deciding when and where to build hospitals. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/108 "2012-04-19T16:49:47Z")
> [@zookies](#): > > But some people, despite the failure of the Soviet Union, think central planning works. The Soviet Union was a failure, no doubt. However, providing national healthcare wasn’t the reason for it. Lifespans in the Soviet Union were higher than in the US during the 50s and 60s and dropped fairly rapidly for males after the transition to privatisation in the 90s. > [@zookies](#): > > They were the sort that said nothing in the 1930’s when Hitler centralized power How’d that poem go again? Oh yeah: > [@Martin Niemöller](#): > > First they came for the communists, > and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist. > > Then they came for the trade unionists, > and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/109 "2012-04-19T17:25:40Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > The Soviet Union was a failure, no doubt. However, providing national healthcare wasn’t the reason for it. \*\*Lifespans in the Soviet Union were higher than in the US during the 50s and 60s \*\*and dropped fairly rapidly for males after the transition to privatisation in the 90s. > **[bmj00287-0032.pdf](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2546027/pdf/bmj00287-0032.pdf)** > > 1285 B [http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data\_Set\_Group\_Id=195](http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=195) Life expectancy in 1955: US - 72.8 USSR - 67 Life expectancy in 1958: US - 73.2 USSR - 68.6 Life expectancy in 1971: US - 74.7 USSR - 69.5 You were saying? ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/110 "2012-04-19T17:38:57Z")
> **[Demographics of the Soviet Union | Life expectancy and infant mortality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_Soviet_Union#Life_expectancy_and_infant_mortality)** > > A newborn Soviet child in 1926–27 had a life expectancy of 44.4 years, up from 32.3 years in the Russian Empire thirty years before. By 1958–59, the life expectancy for newborns had reached 68.6 years. Life expectancy in the Soviet Union remained fairly stable during most years, although in the 1970s it decreased slightly. There were points during the late 50s and early 60s where life expectancy beat out the US (should have clarified the timespan). Here is a graph charting the decline in health post privatisation: > **[Demographics of Russia | Life expectancy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#Life_expectancy)** > > Infant mortality rate ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/111 "2012-04-19T18:16:57Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I would love to buy health insurance; but if I bought catastrophic health insurance (at a rate of $700 per month), and incurred the same health problems you did, I would be bankrupted by the deductible and the coinsurance. Catastrophic health insurance does not protect me from catastrophe. But full insurance like the kind that I had up until 2010, with just a minimal co-pay, no deductible and no coinsurance, would cost $1400 per month, which wipes me out. > > So I choose to have no health insurance. If I run into a health crisis, I will either die, or get treated at the emergency room and declare medical bankruptcy. I also have an old Blue Cross card I will attempt to use to defraud the medical providers until they figure it out, if need be. Our out of pocket was close to 40,000 ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/112 "2012-04-19T18:26:14Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I also have an old Blue Cross card I will attempt to use to defraud the medical providers until they figure it out, if need be. Thank you for helping to drive up the cost of insurance for the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/113 "2012-04-19T18:43:17Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Thank you for helping to drive up the cost of insurance for the rest of us. Pardon me for not dying. I am willing to suffer the ignominy of being a parasite if it will persuade others to support comprehensive health care reform. If not, you can just suffer with high rates. A broken health care system is everyone’s problem, not just the uninsured. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/114 "2012-04-19T18:46:06Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > [Demographics of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_Soviet_Union#Life_expectancy_and_infant_mortality) > > There were points during the late 50s and early 60s where life expectancy beat out the US (should have clarified the timespan). I’d like sources on that. The ones I gave show US never dropping below 70 at that time and USSR not rising above 70. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/115 "2012-04-19T18:54:34Z")
“The trend continued into the 1960s, when the life expectancy in the Soviet Union went beyond the life expectancy in the United States.” The cite for that paragraph is “The Seeming Paradox of Increasing Mortality in a Highly Industrialized Nation: the Example of the Soviet Union” by H. Dinkel. ---
**Author:** ![iltep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7cd45c/32.png) [@iltep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iltep)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/116 "2012-04-20T20:18:35Z")
You only pay $800 a month for a family of six? That is cheap cheap cheap man. How much is the yearly deductible? For me, a single guy with no dependents a years worth of health insurance would be about $3000 for full coverage plus a deductible of another $5000 before any benefits kicked in. For a guy like me who never goes to the doctor and never gets sick, I also think health insurance is a scam. I also believe all insurance is a scam especially when it is mandated like auto insurance. Auto insurance guarantees that if you are a good driver, your rates are based upon your credit score or the rest of the idiot drivers in your county and not on your good driving record. Huge scam. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/117 "2012-04-20T21:02:13Z")
> [@iltep](#): > > You only pay $800 a month for a family of six? That is cheap cheap cheap man. Cheap is a value perception. Maybe as far as family rates go, but that still doesnt mean it is cheap “for him” ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/118 "2012-04-20T21:26:04Z")
> [@Foxy40](#): > > I think if you are going to use an ER for non emergent issues, you have to be prepared to pay more than you would going to your primary physician for an issue such as this. You are paying for their expertise, the staff time, the time taking up the room etc. So the cost would be the same for the triage treatment whether you had a bump on the head or a brain aneurysm. The common public are not trained medical specialists. His certainly sounded like an emergent issue to me. ER is supposed to be a public service, not an elite luxury for those wishing expedited service. I don’t know the solution, but any system that forces someone to simultaneously weigh the cost-benefit of imminent death versus catastrophic debt is fundamentally broken. I’ve personally had, and witnessed in many others, “please don’t take me to the ER, I can’t afford it” moments with blood literally pooling on the floor. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/119 "2012-04-22T09:56:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I’d like sources on that. The ones I gave show US never dropping below 70 at that time and USSR not rising above 70. [Here’s a source](http://www.gapminder.org/world/#$majorMode=chart$is;shi=t;ly=2003;lb=f;il=t;fs=11;al=30;stl=t;st=t;nsl=t;se=t$wst;tts=C$ts;sp=3.54903225806453;ti=1997$zpv;v=0$inc_x;mmid=XCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj1jiMAkmq1iMg;by=ind$inc_y;mmid=YCOORDS;iid=phAwcNAVuyj2tPLxKvvnNPA;by=ind$inc_s;uniValue=8.21;iid=phAwcNAVuyj0XOoBL_n5tAQ;by=ind$inc_c;uniValue=255;gid=CATID0;by=grp$map_x;scale=log;dataMin=295;dataMax=79210$map_y;scale=lin;dataMin=19;dataMax=86$map_s;sma=49;smi=2.65$cd;bd=0$inds=;modified=75) I like 🆒 , which shows Russia behind U.S. by 1 year during some of the years in question, but Ukraine ahead of U.S. by 2 years at some of the same points. (I wonder if some discrepancies involve Soviet=Russia conflation.) But this doesn’t affect **gamerunknown** ’s main point: the huge decline in health (and prosperity) after Soviet collapse, which is eye-catching in the graph I linked to. BTW, I’ve wondered how life expectancy for a still-living population is predicted. I especially wonder about a graph linked-to above which shows, if I understand correctly, life expectancy for Americans born in 2050. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414/120 "2012-04-22T17:40:30Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > In the year 2010, my wife and I rang up over 1 million dollars in health care costs. That is why I have bought health insurance. 1 mil? I believe you, but I’d like the details–if it’s not too nosy of me to ask. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance-is-a-scam-why-do-people-buy-it/617414.md?page=7)