# Health Insurance **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 19, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223 "2018-07-19T20:46:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/61 "2018-07-20T20:09:59Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > My American friends have lead me to believe if you’ve got great coverage, the Dr will be nothing but cooperative, for any test you fancy, probably get in that day! (They have executive level insurance, I believe.) > > It’s one of the things they brag on about their system. Perhaps I am misinformed. If so, I’m happy to hear it. > > And more than once it has made the local news when an American tourist, in some sort of accident, lands in hospital, and demands lots of tests the Drs don’t deem needed. Ugly outrage usually ensues. Perhaps this is not representative. If so, again, I’m very happy to hear it, and sincerely thank you for setting me straight. Wait, I’m not trying to set you straight. I’m asking as well. I’ve never tried it, but it seems like I wouldn’t be able to go see my doctor for a stuffy nose and then get approval for an MRI. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/62 "2018-07-20T20:12:23Z")
Regarding people who bring up the (largely incorrect) wait time argument; to me the unspoken argument seems to be “we need to keep as many people out of the line as possible in order to keep the line as short as possible for me and mine.” That’s a pretty ugly way of thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/63 "2018-07-20T20:21:00Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > He has? Where? My mistake, I confused one user for another. Anyhoo, on further musing about Americans, I pictured the following hypothetical exchange: American: I work hard so my children will have a better life. Observing non-American: What about the children of other Americans? A: _Fuck_ those lazy bastard pieces of shit! My taxes are already too high and I don’t want _one single penny_ going to give those do-nothing shitheel lucky duckies a free ride to sit on their couches and play Nintendo! OnA: You know, your children will probably lead better lives if the people around them are well-educated and healthy, so maybe… A: Shut your lying face, commie. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/64 "2018-07-20T20:23:03Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Is this true? I can go to my doctor and demand an MRI and my insurance will just pay for it, no questions asked? Well, in \*your \*case the doctor might be trying to rule out brain damage, for which you have multiple symptoms. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/65 "2018-07-20T20:26:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, in \*your \*case the doctor might be trying to rule out brain damage, for which you have multiple symptoms. Perhaps. But that would be a medical necessity, not simply me asking for an MRI. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/66 "2018-07-20T20:34:11Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Wait, I’m not trying to set you straight. I’m asking as well. I’ve never tried it, but it seems like I wouldn’t be able to go see my doctor for a stuffy nose and then get approval for an MRI. As anec-data, I had suspected kidney stones, and got an MRI the same day (and later that evening a laser up my penis because it turned out to be a really large kidney stone (with some slightly smaller siblings)). I don’t know know how dire a medical condition suspected stones are, so don’t know if that caused me to jump ahead in the queue or not. In general, I don’t think anyone in my family who needed a scan waited for more than a few days. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/67 "2018-07-20T20:41:17Z")
Heck, I got an MRI and _didn’t_ ask for one. It was recommended to diagnose a lingering knee injury, which turned out to be just a bad but temporary sprain. Didn’t cost me anything, though I grant in the larger sense that I likely pay more of my income in various provincial and federal taxes than an American of similar means. More recently was my losing argument with a table saw. The damage was messy but ultimately minor and aside from an antibiotic prescription, I also didn’t have to shell out. I even got the pleasure of having my finger debrided twice without the additional pain of having to open my wallet for anything more than my provincial health insurance card. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/68 "2018-07-23T08:48:23Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > As anec-data, I had suspected kidney stones, and got an MRI the same day (and later that evening a laser up my penis because it turned out to be a really large kidney stone (with some slightly smaller siblings)). I don’t know know how dire a medical condition suspected stones are, so don’t know if that caused me to jump ahead in the queue or not. But I bet they wouldn’t just give you a laser up the penis just because you asked for one. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/69 "2018-07-23T13:00:58Z")
> [@JB99](#): > > … > **If you vote against universal health care, you are fucking stupid.** > > I mean, seriously. People offer you medicine to keep you and your family alive, and you say, “No! That’s Communism / Slavery / Whatever…” (Yes, I have heard this from actual humans) Because apparently you prefer the current ineffective and corrupt health care system over the one in which your family gets whatever they need to keep them healthy. > > I’m not even sorry. I cannot fathom a worldview in which that makes even the slightest bit of sense. That’s just the dumbest, most self-destructive thing I’ve ever heard. You think white people should spend all their money on methadone and condoms for black people? And penicillin for the diseases they get fucking some white dude’s daughter? I’ll bet you six kegs of Budweiser you’d a voted for Killary if you didn’t live in some shithole country. Speaking of white people being persecuted, I go to my local hospital complaining of chest pains and they give me an EKG. Normally that would be free for the yellow people, but I’m a white foreigner and have to shell out $9. (Admittedly they were about to give it free until I reminded them.) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/70 "2018-07-23T13:11:23Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Speaking of white people being persecuted, I go to my local hospital complaining of chest pains and they give me an EKG. Normally that would be free for the yellow people, but I’m a white foreigner and have to shell out $9. (Admittedly they were about to give it free until I reminded them.) I think I’ve paid substantially more than $9 for an EKG, despite having insurance. Was that a typo? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/71 "2018-07-23T14:12:54Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > Too many people are getting wealthy off the current system to change it for the general good of everyone. Isn’t that the problem in a nutshell? Well, no. I’m not getting wealthy off the current system, but I’m doing pretty well largely thanks to it (as did my wife before she decided to take a sabbatical). Both of us are firmly in favor of adopting a single-payer system, with the option of supplemental private coverage, even though it would put her out of a job and force me to learn a new area of the law. I would venture to say that those of us who make money of the existing system are among the _most_ likely to want it changed (other than physicians, whose earnings would probably go down considerably). > [@elbows](#): > > In America people with gold star health insurance are accustomed to accessing what they want, on demand. Say an MRI. They can because of two main factors, I think. Firstly, their access is about their wallet. They can can get an MRI because they want one, and have coverage. Secondly, access is about availability. That machine is sitting idle in order for them to get instant access, by necessity. That’s an really expensive condition when you think about it. > > Getting them to give that perk up, just to get triaged access based not on their insurance quality, but instead medical need, could see them in line behind some undeserving poor person. > > (In Canada you can’t get an MRI by asking for one, even though you have coverage. Only your Dr can order an MRI, as he determines actual need. MRI machines are not sitting unused in Canada, instead they are in constant steady use. Consider the cost efficiencies THAT provides. Your place in the queue is based entirely upon your medical need. Triaged like emergency rooms. 2mins, 2hrs, 2 day’s, 2 months?) That’s a bit much. An MRI usually comes with a wait of a week or two, unless you’re already in a hospital. But it’s true that the US has far more MRI machines than anyplace else, and many of them are often sitting idle. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/72 "2018-07-23T14:17:01Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > But I bet they wouldn’t just give you a laser up the penis just because you asked for one. Usually, you have to pay double for that kind of action. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/73 "2018-07-23T14:39:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I would venture to say that those of us who make money of the existing system are among the _most_ likely to want it changed (other than physicians, whose earnings would probably go down considerably). Why so? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/74 "2018-07-23T14:58:16Z")
Because we know how badly the current system sucks whether or not we’ve been screwed by it. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/75 "2018-07-23T15:02:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s a bit much. An MRI usually comes with a wait of a week or two, unless you’re already in a hospital. But it’s true that the US has far more MRI machines than anyplace else, and many of them are often sitting idle. That might be location dependent. When I needed an MRI, I was able to get an appointment the same day. Doctor suggested it, then his assistant called and scheduled it. A few hours later, I went to the MRI office and it was done. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/76 "2018-07-23T15:17:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I would venture to say that those of us who make money of the existing system are among the _most_ likely to want it changed (other than physicians, whose earnings would probably go down considerably). Most of the docs I’ve talked would _also_ like single-payer - admittedly, most of the doctors I hang out with are “bottom-feeders” who serve the poor, the elderly, the chronically ill, prisoners, etc. I don’t hobnob with too many super-high-paid specialists. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Why so? > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Because we know how badly the current system sucks whether or not we’ve been screwed by it. ^ This. Back when I was still working for Blue Cross I was in favor of single-payer (not that I spoke too much at work about that!) You could probably dig up posts I made here to that effect, that even though my job depended on the current system and me and mine had great benefits I was in favor of single-payer/universal coverage. A lot of people who say they’re satisfied with their coverage are, at present, relatively healthy. It’s until after they’re hit with a major illness or accident that they discover just how much their “great” coverage actually sucks. Even with insurance medical care can bankrupt you in this country. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/77 "2018-07-23T15:54:15Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > There’s another problem: Something like three quarters of Americans say they’re happy with their insurance. This isn’t necessarily an _informed_ opinion (most people are relatively healthy, and most people have employer-sponsored insurance where much of the price tag is hidden) but it’s still a real one. I only know one person who is happy with their insurance. And she’s military. Everyone else I know hates their insurance and the people I’m around have what’s considered “good insurance” and tend to be reasonably healthy. And I live in a state with a very good insurance commissioner. It’s better than crappy insurance and a hell of a lot better than no insurance. Who are these people? Where are they getting reasonably priced insurance that actually covers stuff? What makes them “happy”? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/78 "2018-07-23T19:52:21Z")
My insurance company pays for a monthly dose of Simponi, the cost of which is greater than I pay for insurance unless the manufacturer cut a deal with the insurance company. Strangely enough, the manufacturer can supply the drug free to the uninsured. Someone “cut a deal” somewhere, my co-pay is five dollars. I would think that with single payer, the government would do everything possible to cut the cost of drugs. But I digress. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/79 "2018-07-23T20:13:17Z")
Also with single payer focus is often shifted to prevention, out reach, education, screening, because like early intervention these can realize enormous savings over the whole system, over time. In a ‘for profit’ system there’s no real motivation for such things. It’s not one system with a united goal, it’s thousands of systems, some with questionable goals! ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223/80 "2018-07-23T20:30:44Z")
Ok here’s what happens. 1. A large voting bloc ages. 2)They vote for universal healthcare because they start to get ill. They package it with rhetoric about how it will help the poor, yadda yadda. This is not something complicated. The Boomers, having derailed the government and sent its debts soaring, now want to milk the hapless taxpayer even further. Nope. Sorry. The Boomers will go down as the most coddled group of people in the history of the United States when the history is written. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/health-insurance/818223.md?page=5)