# healthcare crisis out of control **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 8, 2015, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566 "2015-07-08T11:24:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/21 "2015-07-08T23:29:57Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > \*\*Well, here’s the thing. I haven’t been in an ER since I was 14. Because nowadays we have these things called urgent care clinics that can handle minor emergencies like broken bones, burns, cuts, dog bites, stitches, asthma attacks, etc. \*\* > > Choosing your route of care changes those wait times considerably. I would not sit in the ER for 4 hours waiting for sutures, especially because there is a window of time after which sutures cannot be given because the risk of infection is higher in the closed wound (that’s been exposed to bacteria for several hours already) than in a wound left open. I would not wait for an x-ray for hours and hours either. I go to the nearby clinic, that’s open whenever I’m awake, 7 days a week, to handle things like that. > > Now if you want to be a NEW patient with a primary care physician or a specialist, then yes, you can wait months for an appointment. I had to wait six months for an appointment with a new dentist. However, once you establish yourself as a patient, you can usually get right in with a phone call, same day or within a day or two. I had to see an opthalmologist last year for an eye thing that ended up resulting in in-office surgery. I did not have to wait days and days. I called on Monday, explained the problem, noted that I was miserable and wanted to claw my own eye out and they squoze me in same day. > > Yes, there are some crisis-level problems with the American healthcare system, sure. But I don’t really think that med schools not churning out enough graduates is really the problem. I can see low priority being a 4 hour wait but it should not be a 8 hour wait or more. And ER with one or two doctors and 20 to 60 people is disaster ready to happen. If there was a train wreck or a multiple vehicle accidents, storm like a tornado, mall shooting so on many people will die. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/22 "2015-07-08T23:36:11Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Well, here’s the thing. I haven’t been in an ER since I was 14. Because nowadays we have these things called urgent care clinics that can handle minor emergencies like broken bones, burns, cuts, dog bites, stitches, asthma attacks, etc. > > Choosing your route of care changes those wait times considerably. I would not sit in the ER for 4 hours waiting for sutures, especially because there is a window of time after which sutures cannot be given because the risk of infection is higher in the closed wound (that’s been exposed to bacteria for several hours already) than in a wound left open. I would not wait for an x-ray for hours and hours either. I go to the nearby clinic, that’s open whenever I’m awake, 7 days a week, to handle things like that. > > Now if you want to be a NEW patient with a primary care physician or a specialist, then yes, you can wait months for an appointment. I had to wait six months for an appointment with a new dentist. However, once you establish yourself as a patient, you can usually get right in with a phone call, same day or within a day or two. I had to see an opthalmologist last year for an eye thing that ended up resulting in in-office surgery. I did not have to wait days and days. I called on Monday, explained the problem, noted that I was miserable and wanted to claw my own eye out and they squoze me in same day. > > Yes, there are some crisis-level problems with the American healthcare system, sure. But I don’t really think that med schools not churning out enough graduates is really the problem. Also keep in mind a lot of problem with long ER wait times today is Doctor’s hate working in ER. In my city there are close to 100 medical walk in clinics and only two hospitals And yes you can wait hour or two at a medical walk in clinic for cold, broken bones, burns, cuts, dog bites, stitches so on!!! ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/23 "2015-07-08T23:40:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Is that scan needed for an emergency? If so, you’ll get it immediately. If not… what’s your frickin’ hurry? Do you cut in line for everything? At the grocery store do you shove others aside and barge to the front of the line? Is your every dental appointment the very day you called the dentist or do you need to wait to get in there? Americans believe in emergency you should have it ASAP and in non emergency same day or next day or pay to get in front of line. Not a soviet union style almost a month or more for scan. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/24 "2015-07-08T23:41:46Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > I gone to ER in the 90’s on average 5 may be 10 people tops. Now when I go to ER I see 40 to 60 people with same number of doctors!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: And how many had life-threatening conditions versus how many could be treated faster at a Doc in a Box or if they just called their PCP? The _ **Emergency** _ Room is called that for a reason, but too many people use it for minor shit. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/25 "2015-07-08T23:43:21Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > So you all know about the major shortage of doctors and nurse’s and long very long wait times in the ER 4 to 8 hours and soon to be 8 to 12 hours. What country do you live in? I don’t think you said? ’ ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/26 "2015-07-08T23:53:51Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > And how many had life-threatening conditions versus how many could be treated faster at a Doc in a Box or if they just called their PCP? The _ **Emergency** _ Room is called that for a reason, but too many people use it for minor shit. How can 90’s have 5 to 10 people and now 40 to 60 people in the ER!! The Average ER Wait Time in US all 50 state. Best and wost states to be in. [![](https://i.insider.com/4eb1889e6bb3f7970c00001e) ](https://i.insider.com/4eb1889e6bb3f7970c00001e) Why was it in past they had hospital or every 50,000 people or 100,000 people and now hospital for every 300,000 people. When mega hospital came about this problem started. If the population and call load goes up why do we still have the same number of doctors working in the ER. Even if 80% of those people had very low Emergency. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/27 "2015-07-09T00:13:51Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > I can see low priority being a 4 hour wait but it should not be a 8 hour wait or more. And ER with one or two doctors and 20 to 60 people is disaster ready to happen. If half those 20 to 60 people are kids with uncomplicated ear infections or colds or the like they shouldn’t be there at all. None of that is an emergency but due to our jacked-up health “system” too many people still lack basic access to care, so it’s the ER or nothing. They’re going to wait until everyone else with real emergencies are seen first. > [@](#): > > If there was a train wreck or a multiple vehicle accidents, storm like a tornado, mall shooting so on many people will die. I’m sorry - are you under the impression that ER’s are first come, first served? Who gets seen when in an ER all depends on NEED, not when the person arrives or how long the person has been sitting there. On a busy day a relatively minor injury will be sitting a long time. If there’s a “mass casualty incident” like a train wreck or whatever then, again, people will be seen according to need. Which means Mr. Ear Infection may be waiting even _longer_. Doesn’t even have to be a mass casualty incident - when I sprained my knee my turn finally came around only to be pre-empted by a young kid with half his face covered and pouring down with blood. Guess what - he got seen first, even though he had’’ just arrived and I’d been waiting a couple hours. Blood loss trumps a sprain. Waits are dependent on actual medical needs, not what you think they should be. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/28 "2015-07-09T00:15:54Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > Americans believe in emergency you should have it ASAP and in non emergency same day or next day or pay to get in front of line. Not a soviet union style almost a month or more for scan. Well, maybe the Americans have f’ed up beliefs not only about their own medical system but also how a medical system should be. A lot of them are spoiled, entitled brats. Personally, I’d rather have a system based on actual need and medical criteria and priorities rather than who can outbid anyone else for the front of the line. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/29 "2015-07-09T00:20:36Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > How can 90’s have 5 to 10 people and now 40 to 60 people in the ER!! What day of the week and what time of day were you there? 2 pm Tuesday on a regular day is going to be a lot less busy than 9 pm on Friday or 11 pm on St. Patrick’s Day. > [@](#): > > Why was it in past they had hospital or every 50,000 people or 100,000 people and now hospital for every 300,000 people. One reason is that a lot of stuff that used to be done in a hospital setting is now done as outpatient treatment. Also, people used to spend a LOT more time recovering in the hospital. We now know that’s not necessary in many cases, and in some ways it’s better to be home so long as it won’t complicate a case. So we don’t need as many beds per unit of population. > [@](#): > > Even if 80% of those people had very low Emergency. If you have a “low emergency” (what is that?) then you can probably wait your turn. If you’re suddenly jumped to the front of line you’re probably near death. Me, I’d rather have something that allows waiting. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/30 "2015-07-09T00:41:36Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If half those 20 to 60 people are kids with uncomplicated ear infections or colds or the like they shouldn’t be there at all. None of that is an emergency but due to our jacked-up health “system” too many people still lack basic access to care, so it’s the ER or nothing. They’re going to wait until everyone else with real emergencies are seen first. > I’m sorry - are you under the impression that ER’s are first come, first served? > > Who gets seen when in an ER all depends on NEED, not when the person arrives or how long the person has been sitting there. On a busy day a relatively minor injury will be sitting a long time. > > If there’s a “mass casualty incident” like a train wreck or whatever then, again, people will be seen according to need. Which means Mr. Ear Infection may be waiting even _longer_. > > No your wrong. > > Doesn’t even have to be a mass casualty incident - when I sprained my knee my turn finally came around only to be pre-empted by a young kid with half his face covered and pouring down with blood. Guess what - he got seen first, even though he had’’ just arrived and I’d been waiting a couple hours. Blood loss trumps a sprain. > > Waits are dependent on actual medical needs, not what you think they should be. no we have more people and a bigger city and higher call load but same number of doctors we had in the 90’s. It is a disgrace a big city population of 600,000 people have two hospitals yet old very old cities population of 600,000 have 7 hospitals or more. It is extremely unacceptable and unacceptable a small town or small city has ER with one or two doctors and yet a big city ER with one or two doctors. It is not acceptable a city of 300,000 people a ER has only one or two doctors. There should be doctor at the very least for every 100,000 people!!! It cheaper for government to build these mega hospitals than in past building these smaller hospitals for every 50,000 or 100,000 people!! But now the ER are busting open with this model. Well it is like a assembling line not health care provider. The government loves these mega hospitals it is cheaper for them. Those 20 to 60 people in ER are unheard of in those hospitals models of past. Well the mega hospitals support the model of 20 to 60 people in ER. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/31 "2015-07-09T00:48:04Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > no we have more people and a bigger city and higher call load but same number of doctors we had in the 90’s. It is a disgrace a big city population of 600,000 people have two hospitals yet old very old cities population of 600,000 have 7 hospitals or more. Um… you know, it would be really helpful if you told us WHICH city you’re talking about… > [@](#): > > It is not acceptable a city of 300,000 people a ER has only one or two doctors. First of all, is it one or two doctors a shift, or one or two doctors total? That is not at all clear from your posts. Second, even if there are only two doctors on duty at a time, there will be other medical personnel AND additional doctors _on call_ who can come to the ER from the rest of the “mega-hospital” promptly. It doesn’t make sense to pay a neurosugeon to sit in an ER for hours on end with no neurosurgery to do. Instead, you have emergency specialists on duty who will call in such other specialists as needed. Were you completely unaware of this system? ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/32 "2015-07-09T00:49:01Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Well, maybe the Americans have f’ed up beliefs not only about their own medical system but also how a medical system should be. A lot of them are spoiled, entitled brats. > > Personally, I’d rather have a system based on actual need and medical criteria and priorities rather than who can outbid anyone else for the front of the line. Look at the chart on the average ER wait times in US are under 5 hours or 300 minutes = 5 hours!!! Most of ER wait times in US are 4 hours. Some places a bit more and some bit less. [![](https://i.insider.com/4eb1889e6bb3f7970c00001e) ](https://i.insider.com/4eb1889e6bb3f7970c00001e) 60= one hour 120= 2 hours 180= 3 hours. 240= 4 hours 300= 5 hours 360= 6 hours ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/33 "2015-07-09T00:58:32Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Well, maybe the Americans have f’ed up beliefs not only about their own medical system but also how a medical system should be. A lot of them are spoiled, entitled brats. > > Personally, I’d rather have a system based on actual need and medical criteria and priorities rather than who can outbid anyone else for the front of the line. I have no problem poor people waiting a month or two for hip or knee surgery or month for scan. I do have problem with some one that wants to pay in cash or pay extra health insurance for faster!! If you want it ASAP you should have right to pay in cash or get more costly health insurance plan. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/34 "2015-07-09T01:06:07Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > I can see low priority being a 4 hour wait but it should not be a 8 hour wait or more. This sounds like a local problem. In Philadelphia, we have four medical schools (used to be five, two merged) whose graduates often want to stay in the area. There is a lot of competition between hospitals to attract specialty care patients. It’s common that you can get appointments with specialists on the Philadelphia Magazine docs docs go to lists within a month, and to a faculty member of the hospital’s choice right away. But the supply of primary care physicians isn’t so good. This is one reason why we travel to Wilmington Delaware for primary care while getting almost all specialty care quite nearby. See: [http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/july\_august\_2013/features/first\_teach\_no\_harm045361.php?page=all](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/july_august_2013/features/first_teach_no_harm045361.php?page=all) > [@](#): > > [residency] programs turn out too many specialists who go on to practice in places where such doctors are already in oversupply, and where, according to numerous studies, they often inflate health care spending by engaging in massive amounts of unnecessary surgery and other forms of over-treatment. Meanwhile, residency programs are producing a dwindling number of primary care physicians and other generalists, who are already in chronically short supply in most parts of the country and are desperately needed to implement the kind of reforms to the health care delivery system necessary to improve its quality and efficiency. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/35 "2015-07-09T01:09:25Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If half those 20 to 60 people are kids with uncomplicated ear infections or colds or the like they shouldn’t be there at all. None of that is an emergency but due to our jacked-up health “system” too many people still lack basic access to care, so it’s the ER or nothing. They’re going to wait until everyone else with real emergencies are seen first. > I’m sorry - are you under the impression that ER’s are first come, first served? > > Who gets seen when in an ER all depends on NEED, not when the person arrives or how long the person has been sitting there. On a busy day a relatively minor injury will be sitting a long time. > > If there’s a “mass casualty incident” like a train wreck or whatever then, again, people will be seen according to need. Which means Mr. Ear Infection may be waiting even _longer_. > > Doesn’t even have to be a mass casualty incident - when I sprained my knee my turn finally came around only to be pre-empted by a young kid with half his face covered and pouring down with blood. Guess what - he got seen first, even though he had’’ just arrived and I’d been waiting a couple hours. Blood loss trumps a sprain. > > Waits are dependent on actual medical needs, not what you think they should be. You do realize a train wreck or a multiple vehicle accidents, storm like a tornado, mall shooting would have a lot of people coming in priority one and two. Than priority 3 and 4 like burns, cuts, dog bites, stitches, colds, walking and twisted my ankle and minor swollen feet so on. If doctors are struggling with priority one and two cases in ER under normal workload this would really tip it over. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/36 "2015-07-09T01:25:59Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > Look at the chart on the average ER wait times in US are under 5 hours or 300 minutes = 5 hours!!! > > Most of ER wait times in US are 4 hours. Some places a bit more and some bit less. > > [http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/4eb1889e6bb3f7970c00001e/average-er-waiting-times-by-state.png](http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/4eb1889e6bb3f7970c00001e/average-er-waiting-times-by-state.png) Want to maybe link to the article, not just the chart? Because your chart is from 2009. [Here is data on emergency room wait times now.](https://projects.propublica.org/emergency/) The average wait time - until the patient sees a doctor - for the US as a whole is **24 minutes.** That’s right, 1/3 of an hour, not 4 or 6. The time before a patient is sent home or admitted is longer, of course, but that’s not wait time. So you have a bit of a problem with your data. BTW, in the US governments don’t usually build hospitals. Also btw, on my way home I pass an electronic billboard with an ad for an emergency room that gives the current wait times. It is usually about 8 minutes. Now, they maybe don’t display if the times are long, but they also give a number where you can get a text of the current wait time, so that wouldn’t always help. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/37 "2015-07-09T01:35:15Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > So get schools to open the doors and get more people into med school!! > > China system is worse than US it is base on system of pay. The health care system in China is nothing more than profiting system. > > The long wait time ER are worse in China than the US. > China hospital > [http://changshahua.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/hospital-line.jpeg](http://changshahua.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/hospital-line.jpeg) > > [http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01573/china\_hospital\_1573382c.jpg](http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01573/china_hospital_1573382c.jpg) > [http://pulitzercenter.org/slideshows/deadly-toxic-exposures](http://pulitzercenter.org/slideshows/deadly-toxic-exposures) > > A crowded waiting room at Beijing Hospital > > [http://feuchtblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/China2014-129.jpg](http://feuchtblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/China2014-129.jpg) > > [http://yourhealth.asiaone.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/original\_images/Mar2014/20140326\_hospital\_reuters.jpg](http://yourhealth.asiaone.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/original_images/Mar2014/20140326_hospital_reuters.jpg) Twenty years ago China wasn’t a leader in renewable energy, now they are the world’s biggest investor and their manufacturing is driving down global prices for renewable supplies. China’s over 60 population is going to grow from about 200 million now to about 340 million in 230 and 430 million in 2050. China is going to have a massive incentive to find ways to provide those hundreds of millions with cheap, efficient health care. A big part of the stability of the Chinese government is keeping people happy, if they start telling 400 million people to die off miserably when the people know an alternative exists (which wasn’t the case before China became richer) there is going to be rebellion. So China has the motive, means and competence to find ways to make cheap and efficient health care advances. India too (a physician in India innovated a way to do coronary bypass surgery for $1600 for example). There is a massive incentive to create affordable health care, and I think China & India will lead. Western nations may do a lot of innovation in new health advances, but middle income nations will innovate ways to make existing health care cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/38 "2015-07-09T03:25:11Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > Look at the chart on the average ER wait times in US are under 5 hours or 300 minutes = 5 hours!!! > > Most of ER wait times in US are 4 hours. Some places a bit more and some bit less. Those are _averages_. For every person whisked immediately into the back room due to being near death someone else is sitting out in the waiting room longer than average. If average wait time is 4 hours then, in order to balance out those seen immediately, some folks are going to be waiting a lot longer than 4 hours. If you show up with a cold you might well wait 12 hours to be seen at some times and in some places. That’s because real emergencies are seen first. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/39 "2015-07-09T03:27:31Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > I have no problem poor people waiting a month or two for hip or knee surgery or month for scan. I do have problem with some one that wants to pay in cash or pay extra health insurance for faster!! > > If you want it ASAP you should have right to pay in cash or get more costly health insurance plan. Um… why? OK, sure, if there are enough resources allow people to pay more to jump the line, at least for non-emergency cases, but if resources are limited why should they go to the highest bidder rather than the neediest? Should we choose who gets organ transplants based on who can wave the most money around rather than on who actually needs them? Medical resources and expertise are not unlimited. When they are limited, they should be assigned by need, not by wealth. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566/40 "2015-07-09T03:33:29Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > You do realize a train wreck or a multiple vehicle accidents, storm like a tornado, mall shooting would have a lot of people coming in priority one and two. Actually, tornadoes have remarkably low numbers of deaths and injuries considering how violent they are. The biggest mass casualty events are going to be things like commercial airline crashes, high speed train wrecks, or mass fire events like a [nightclub fire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire). Not that mall shootings and multiple vehicle accidents aren’t serious or even deadly, but the typical instances are not going to overload an ER in a large urban area. > [@](#): > > Than priority 3 and 4 like burns, cuts, dog bites, stitches, colds, walking and twisted my ankle and minor swollen feet so on. Stitches already in, colds, twisted ankles, and minor swollen feet shouldn’t be in the ER in the first place. I frankly don’t give a damn if those people wait 8 or 12 hours - there are better places to get care for those things. > [@](#): > > If doctors are struggling with priority one and two cases in ER under normal workload this would really tip it over. Why do you assume the doctors are “struggling”? Why should they be in any hurry to deal with a common cold? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/healthcare-crisis-out-of-control/724566.md?page=3)